RE: Shed Of The Week: Saab 9-3
Discussion
PoopahScoopah said:
I remember you also said the 9-5 is a bit of a pain to work on. Whilst I respect that you must have a lot more experience than me, I've been very pleasantly surprised taking my new 9-5 Aero to bits, it's been an absolute doddle and I'm just a casual tinkerer. It may still throw up some nasty surprises but so far I'm pretty chuffed with how easy it is to get at bits and get them off.
I'm still missing quite a bit of skin from removing a stereo from a 9-3 - screws hidden in air vents, who's idea was that!? I'm also practiced at accessing the radio modules under the passenger seat - they seem to LOVE shorting/grounding/draining the battery, as does the rear electrical module (one of those unrecodable parts)...My experience of Saabs may be skewed by only seeing broken ones (that's the joys of car repair) AND their popularity with local taxi drivers (which means loads of shagged-out ones) but the situation with spares is unavoidable and that reflects in their values (and insurance premiums, I'm told). The former Saab dealer in this area also gouges people for access to their factory diagnostics (charging over £100 just to read codes) - all-around bad experiences then.
Fortunately, the Chinese have knocked-off the GM Tech2 and eBay is awash with them at 'relatively sensible' prices - a working Tech2 with the Saab card can recode some modules, sort-out ABS and airbag problems (a big deal because you can't just blank-out a light for the MOT when the MFD is posting errors) etc. - a must-have if you're going down this rabbit hole ;0
If it were my money it'd be spent on the previous gen' 9-3, which was an overall nicer car. 2nd gen's sharper handling, and even the dramatic improvement in rigidity for the convertible versions, had too great a cost in my opinion. Yes, keener turn in and so on, but while the steering is quicker it lost any feel the 1st gen car had (not even comparable if you got the brilliant rack brace) and likewise the now electric throttle. Better looking, too, particularly with the three spoke wheels. Plus it doesn't understeer as badly as people think and as the NG900 did - so steering & throttle feel actually count 
Can second comments on material quality... creaks, flimsy structures, peeling lacquer and an overall less attractive cabin in my opinion. My '99 9-3 felt a couple of classes above in comparison and even as the convertible, which was made of jelly, didn't develop squeaks/rattles in the trim.
Can second comments on material quality... creaks, flimsy structures, peeling lacquer and an overall less attractive cabin in my opinion. My '99 9-3 felt a couple of classes above in comparison and even as the convertible, which was made of jelly, didn't develop squeaks/rattles in the trim.
These things are quite nice to drive - rapid, refined, comfortable. Ride isn't as harsh as some would suggest.
But... electrical niggles are a nightmare on them. The Column Interface Module (CIM) which sits behind the steering wheel contains the steering angle sensor and all the switches for lights, wipers, cruise control etc. They have some well documented failure points and are hundreds to replace - if the steering angle sensor plays up, it disables stability control and causes an MOT fail.
We also spent a long time chasing issues with the HID headlamps - flickering lights, blown bulbs etc., again, parts aren't cheap (aftermarket bits are flaky and don't always work or last).
Also had a failed driver's window regulator, my wife took it to be fixed and was charged silly money for it, too.
Wanted to like ours, but it was a pain to live with.
But... electrical niggles are a nightmare on them. The Column Interface Module (CIM) which sits behind the steering wheel contains the steering angle sensor and all the switches for lights, wipers, cruise control etc. They have some well documented failure points and are hundreds to replace - if the steering angle sensor plays up, it disables stability control and causes an MOT fail.
We also spent a long time chasing issues with the HID headlamps - flickering lights, blown bulbs etc., again, parts aren't cheap (aftermarket bits are flaky and don't always work or last).
Also had a failed driver's window regulator, my wife took it to be fixed and was charged silly money for it, too.
Wanted to like ours, but it was a pain to live with.
405dogvan said:
I'm still missing quite a bit of skin from removing a stereo from a 9-3 - screws hidden in air vents, who's idea was that!? I'm also practiced at accessing the radio modules under the passenger seat - they seem to LOVE shorting/grounding/draining the battery, as does the rear electrical module (one of those unrecodable parts)...
My experience of Saabs may be skewed by only seeing broken ones (that's the joys of car repair) AND their popularity with local taxi drivers (which means loads of shagged-out ones) but the situation with spares is unavoidable and that reflects in their values (and insurance premiums, I'm told). The former Saab dealer in this area also gouges people for access to their factory diagnostics (charging over £100 just to read codes) - all-around bad experiences then.
Fortunately, the Chinese have knocked-off the GM Tech2 and eBay is awash with them at 'relatively sensible' prices - a working Tech2 with the Saab card can recode some modules, sort-out ABS and airbag problems (a big deal because you can't just blank-out a light for the MOT when the MFD is posting errors) etc. - a must-have if you're going down this rabbit hole ;0
Yep, I've got a knock off Tech 2. Pretty good at some things, crap at others.My experience of Saabs may be skewed by only seeing broken ones (that's the joys of car repair) AND their popularity with local taxi drivers (which means loads of shagged-out ones) but the situation with spares is unavoidable and that reflects in their values (and insurance premiums, I'm told). The former Saab dealer in this area also gouges people for access to their factory diagnostics (charging over £100 just to read codes) - all-around bad experiences then.
Fortunately, the Chinese have knocked-off the GM Tech2 and eBay is awash with them at 'relatively sensible' prices - a working Tech2 with the Saab card can recode some modules, sort-out ABS and airbag problems (a big deal because you can't just blank-out a light for the MOT when the MFD is posting errors) etc. - a must-have if you're going down this rabbit hole ;0
I don't know if you happen to know which ones are decent?
PoopahScoopah said:
sleepera6 said:
Steaming pile of s
t
Still butt hurt about buying a lemon and having to scrap it. That must have really boiled your piss if you have to make generalised attacks on Saabs every time one comes up.tIt was the worst car I ever owned but it never broke. No one wants them for a good reason - it's a steaming pile of s
teGlad I'm not driving around in an old Vectra like you
405dogvan said:
I'm still missing quite a bit of skin from removing a stereo from a 9-3 - screws hidden in air vents, who's idea was that!? I'm also practiced at accessing the radio modules under the passenger seat - they seem to LOVE shorting/grounding/draining the battery, as does the rear electrical module (one of those unrecodable parts)...
My experience of Saabs may be skewed by only seeing broken ones (that's the joys of car repair) AND their popularity with local taxi drivers (which means loads of shagged-out ones) but the situation with spares is unavoidable and that reflects in their values (and insurance premiums, I'm told). The former Saab dealer in this area also gouges people for access to their factory diagnostics (charging over £100 just to read codes) - all-around bad experiences then.
Fortunately, the Chinese have knocked-off the GM Tech2 and eBay is awash with them at 'relatively sensible' prices - a working Tech2 with the Saab card can recode some modules, sort-out ABS and airbag problems (a big deal because you can't just blank-out a light for the MOT when the MFD is posting errors) etc. - a must-have if you're going down this rabbit hole ;0
Agree with all of the above. They have loads of electrical problems. Sometime when I go over speed bumps my car goes crazy showing errors and then disables the TCS and ABS. It's probably a lose connection somewhere, but it tends to sort itself out after restarting the car so I haven't bothered to fix it.My experience of Saabs may be skewed by only seeing broken ones (that's the joys of car repair) AND their popularity with local taxi drivers (which means loads of shagged-out ones) but the situation with spares is unavoidable and that reflects in their values (and insurance premiums, I'm told). The former Saab dealer in this area also gouges people for access to their factory diagnostics (charging over £100 just to read codes) - all-around bad experiences then.
Fortunately, the Chinese have knocked-off the GM Tech2 and eBay is awash with them at 'relatively sensible' prices - a working Tech2 with the Saab card can recode some modules, sort-out ABS and airbag problems (a big deal because you can't just blank-out a light for the MOT when the MFD is posting errors) etc. - a must-have if you're going down this rabbit hole ;0
sleepera6 said:
When did I ever say I bought a lemon?
It was the worst car I ever owned but it never broke. No one wants them for a good reason - it's a steaming pile of ste
Glad I'm not driving around in an old Vectra like you
It's been stated already that it's not the same as a Vectra C... It drives differently, overall better quality (that tells you how bad the vectra is) and looks better.It was the worst car I ever owned but it never broke. No one wants them for a good reason - it's a steaming pile of s
teGlad I'm not driving around in an old Vectra like you
The average man on the street doesn't want one, because he thinks he wouldn't be able to get parts for them or they will be expensive. This just isn't true due to the number of shared GM consumables (albeit there are things that do cost a lot, for example the silly front amplifier below the seat that dies on most).
I'm not saying its a great car. I've owned a broad enough range of them to know that it's pretty crap. But they cost as much as an vectra C / mondeo and should be compared these, not a 10-12 yr old 3 series, a4 etc.
sleepera6 said:
PoopahScoopah said:
sleepera6 said:
Steaming pile of st
Still butt hurt about buying a lemon and having to scrap it. That must have really boiled your piss if you have to make generalised attacks on Saabs every time one comes up.tIt was the worst car I ever owned but it never broke. No one wants them for a good reason - it's a steaming pile of s
teGlad I'm not driving around in an old Vectra like you
You've popped back to read and post on this tread days after it opened - I think you secretly do love 'em.
Saabs are cheap and easy to mod which I guess explains their popularity with some. But they are seriously flawed in other ways.
I used to have a year 2001 Aero HOT convertible. In standard form I am shocked that the car passed testing and was sold, it was pretty terrible. It torque steered all over the place in the wet and going into a bend fast you felt more you were clinging on to the car rather then the feel of something solidly planted.
So I decided to improve it. Steering rack brace, uprated shocks and springs, bigger rear anti roll bar, remap and abbott racing exhaust. The handling still wasn't great after these mods (which the forums would have you believe totally transform the car). The underpinings are a Cavalier and there is no getting away from that regardless of how much money/mods you throw at one. They are great cars for cruising and straight line blasts but don't let anyone convince you they are good fun in the twisties.
I used to have a year 2001 Aero HOT convertible. In standard form I am shocked that the car passed testing and was sold, it was pretty terrible. It torque steered all over the place in the wet and going into a bend fast you felt more you were clinging on to the car rather then the feel of something solidly planted.
So I decided to improve it. Steering rack brace, uprated shocks and springs, bigger rear anti roll bar, remap and abbott racing exhaust. The handling still wasn't great after these mods (which the forums would have you believe totally transform the car). The underpinings are a Cavalier and there is no getting away from that regardless of how much money/mods you throw at one. They are great cars for cruising and straight line blasts but don't let anyone convince you they are good fun in the twisties.
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