Are there any manufacturers WITHOUT a reliability nightmare?
Discussion
I recall an article by Chris Harris on EVO many, many moons ago (surely pre-2011) stating that if airplanes were maintained by same monkeys servicing the cars we'd have 747s falling off the sky like rain.
With the added complexity in newer cars the issue is that even what once would have been an easy fix, now becomes an expensive easy fix. Think what costs the loss of a key now; back in happy times, you could make a copy of it for few quids. Despite the loss of a key being hardly a manufacturer's fault, how many would then write on several forums "XYZ is thieving me asking 150 £ for a replacement key"?
With the added complexity in newer cars the issue is that even what once would have been an easy fix, now becomes an expensive easy fix. Think what costs the loss of a key now; back in happy times, you could make a copy of it for few quids. Despite the loss of a key being hardly a manufacturer's fault, how many would then write on several forums "XYZ is thieving me asking 150 £ for a replacement key"?
The trouble with web forums is that we read about the selected experiences of individuals. If a handful of people complain about a problem with a car, but the thousands of happy customers don't report daily on how well their car is performing (which they usually don't!), then we tend to get the impression that things are bad. Instead, we need to understand the bigger picture and think about how likely all these horror stories are to occur on our own cars.
There are manufacturers that are usually trouble free (usually Japanese ones like Honda or Toyota) but I firmly believe that we should all buy the cars we want to drive and that suit our needs, rather than some mundane choice that we're frightened into buying by a clutch of rare problems talked about constantly on the internet. Life's too short.
There are manufacturers that are usually trouble free (usually Japanese ones like Honda or Toyota) but I firmly believe that we should all buy the cars we want to drive and that suit our needs, rather than some mundane choice that we're frightened into buying by a clutch of rare problems talked about constantly on the internet. Life's too short.
Tannedbaldhead said:
ILoveMondeo said:
ETA, should clarify that with a car a PHer might like to own! I'm sure a toyota Aygo is bullet proof.... but I dont want one of those! (having said that, a friend has one and has had nothing but trouble with prematurely failed clutches and wheel bearings)
Aygos are not particularly reliable. Known for injector problems, clutch and gearbox issues, wheel bearings and leaks into the footwell. In my recent experience (very small sample size)
118k miles in 2007 Audi A6 3.0tdi. Apart from a fault in the first week from new it was totally reliable
120k miles 2007 Subaru Outback - totally reliable
110k miles in 2001 Skoda Octavia - totally reliable
75k miles 2010 Lotus Evora - totally reliable
118k miles in 2007 Audi A6 3.0tdi. Apart from a fault in the first week from new it was totally reliable
120k miles 2007 Subaru Outback - totally reliable
110k miles in 2001 Skoda Octavia - totally reliable
75k miles 2010 Lotus Evora - totally reliable
Edited by blueg33 on Monday 27th March 13:10
ILoveMondeo said:
And yet according to the interwebs, they are plagued by DMF failures and common rail faults..
Compare the number of people talking about that with how many are out there though. I owned 4 used Renault Clios between 2000 and 2014 (two Renaultsports, two regular 1.2s), put well over 100k on them and never had a single electrical fault (or breakdown full-stop). Yet generally speaking on the interweb, French electrics are terrible. I then bought a Hyundai and it was plagued with electrical gremlins!The only issues I've had that are both well documented and seemingly common are rust and sensor issues from 2000 era Ford's. We've had 6 or 7 in the family (Pumas, Focus, Ka etc) and every single one has thrown up sensor issues and rusted far more than anything else of the same vintage, even when 2000 was a lot closer than it is now.
But even well documented issues on new cars (such as the 1.4 Fabia vRS/Cupra/Polo GTi engine) have probably never affected a significant percentage of owners.
Edited by ukaskew on Monday 27th March 12:43
I've done 100k in my Volvo V40 from new in 4 years and all it has needed is tyres, servicing and brakes. It has had some software updates during services.
oh and i got a puncture .... but that's not the cars fault.
Super reliable, has NEVER ever let me down. and returns 60mpg every day.
oh and i got a puncture .... but that's not the cars fault.
Super reliable, has NEVER ever let me down. and returns 60mpg every day.
As always, just buy Japanese. They know how to make a car last. Lexus, Honda, etc.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-powe...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-powe...
TooMany2cvs said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Toyota seem to make a habit of the biggest recalls in history, so I don't think we can hold them up as a bastion of reliability either. Without any evidence to show, I'd go with Dacia at this time. Simple cars made with proven mechanicals. What's to do wrong on a bare bones Duster?
Apart from the body rot?http://www.carscoops.com/2014/12/widespread-corros...
kambites said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Toyota seem to make a habit of the biggest recalls in history, so I don't think we can hold them up as a bastion of reliability either.
For me, that's a positive. Not only do they seem to have fewer failures than other manufacturers, they also appear much more serious about fixing those they do have rather than sweeping them under the carpet. I think when car manufacturers focused on short term profit instead of long term customer confidence this was always the direction it was going to go. We need to be more demanding so we're not buying cars every 2 years, its so wasteful if you think about it.
Of my car history
ford Fiesta Van 1.8 d lx 1991v - never put a foot wrong, ( it did have brand new injectors a few years prior to me getting in tho )
Vw polo 2002, leaked from new, water all over the passenger footwell, never resolved. Gearbox failure at under 30k miles. put me off VAG for life.
Jaguar XJ sport 98, no issues.
Mercedes CLK320 2002, tow truck on two occasions in the space of 2 months, cat went, and gearbox oil leak and rust.
BMW 320i 2009 - coil plug failure. Tow truck. twice
Mini coupe SD 2012 - no issues.
Mini GP 2013 - new coilovers failed after 5k miles, otherwise fine.
Of my car history
ford Fiesta Van 1.8 d lx 1991v - never put a foot wrong, ( it did have brand new injectors a few years prior to me getting in tho )
Vw polo 2002, leaked from new, water all over the passenger footwell, never resolved. Gearbox failure at under 30k miles. put me off VAG for life.
Jaguar XJ sport 98, no issues.
Mercedes CLK320 2002, tow truck on two occasions in the space of 2 months, cat went, and gearbox oil leak and rust.
BMW 320i 2009 - coil plug failure. Tow truck. twice
Mini coupe SD 2012 - no issues.
Mini GP 2013 - new coilovers failed after 5k miles, otherwise fine.
Edited by lestiq on Monday 27th March 14:31
I always think of reliability as the need to be towed - as if this doesn't happen, the car is basically reliable.
My car history as an example:-
MG Metro - towed (failed gearbox)
XR2 - OK
405 Mi-16 - towed (failed ECU)
Impreza Turbo - towed (failed coil pack)
Cavailier 1.8LS - OK
Impreza WRX - OK
Focus Ghia - OK
Audi TT QS - towed (blown tyre, no spare)
E55 AMG - OK
Cayman S - OK
E63 AMG - OK
So in summary; Austin, Audi, Peugeot and Subary are not reliable
My car history as an example:-
MG Metro - towed (failed gearbox)
XR2 - OK
405 Mi-16 - towed (failed ECU)
Impreza Turbo - towed (failed coil pack)
Cavailier 1.8LS - OK
Impreza WRX - OK
Focus Ghia - OK
Audi TT QS - towed (blown tyre, no spare)
E55 AMG - OK
Cayman S - OK
E63 AMG - OK
So in summary; Austin, Audi, Peugeot and Subary are not reliable
RumbleOfThunder said:
kambites said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
Toyota seem to make a habit of the biggest recalls in history, so I don't think we can hold them up as a bastion of reliability either.
For me, that's a positive. Not only do they seem to have fewer failures than other manufacturers, they also appear much more serious about fixing those they do have rather than sweeping them under the carpet. Renault appeared to do everything they could to get out of recalling all the mk2 Clios when their bonnet catches turned out to be faulty. Toyota would have just cracked on.
I feel there is a difference between failures brought on by things like emissions targets, and failures brought on by cost cutting and bad design.
If a car has issues with EGR valves etc., that is pretty much tough luck as it's the way the regulations have affected things.
If it's something like security issues (e.g. BMW recently), I'd be more concerned with how the manufacturer responds and what they intend to do to fix it.
If a car has issues with EGR valves etc., that is pretty much tough luck as it's the way the regulations have affected things.
If it's something like security issues (e.g. BMW recently), I'd be more concerned with how the manufacturer responds and what they intend to do to fix it.
I have found that most cars are reliable when operated and maintained to the manufacturers specifications.
I also found that people with reliable humdrum cars are less liable to post on the internet than when said owner of a similar car gets a problem with it.
EG MK3 mondeo DMF and injector problems.
I've had at least 5 of these and done over 200k in them with nothing more than servicing and consumables. The rumour mill would have you believe they were a ticking timebomb of expense.
I ran a mk5 fiesta z-s for 80k miles at which time they were apparently plagued with overheating and catastrophic crank bearing failure, totally reliable.
Ran a Petrol Octavia VRS TFSI for 100k miles, services and consumables aside, i had to change an abs sensor and that was it, i have had wood fires that have given me more bother.
I know plenty of other folk who have these cars and have had loads of issues but either bought second hand ( so you cant verify how its been looked after really) or not serviced to schedule.
I also found that people with reliable humdrum cars are less liable to post on the internet than when said owner of a similar car gets a problem with it.
EG MK3 mondeo DMF and injector problems.
I've had at least 5 of these and done over 200k in them with nothing more than servicing and consumables. The rumour mill would have you believe they were a ticking timebomb of expense.
I ran a mk5 fiesta z-s for 80k miles at which time they were apparently plagued with overheating and catastrophic crank bearing failure, totally reliable.
Ran a Petrol Octavia VRS TFSI for 100k miles, services and consumables aside, i had to change an abs sensor and that was it, i have had wood fires that have given me more bother.
I know plenty of other folk who have these cars and have had loads of issues but either bought second hand ( so you cant verify how its been looked after really) or not serviced to schedule.
The most reliable car I have owned is my current car, and it's French! It's a 1995 Peugeot 306 1.9TD. I bought it two-and-a-half years ago at 101k, and it's now on 153k. Aside from the usual wear and tear stuff, all that's gone wrong with it mechanically is the alternator belt which snapped last year. Still wouldn't class it as a breakdown though. It still drove, just with no power steering for a few days until I got it fixed. Never let me down and always gets me where I need to be, which isn't bad for a leggy 21-year-old French hatchback that gets used daily!
The car it replaced was a much newer (2003), lower mileage Vauxhall that I bought because I needed a car urgently. On a few separate occasions it would randomly lose power when driving and the engine light would start flashing. Switching it off and on again would cure it, but never felt confident that the car would ever complete a journey. The timing chain also stretched and it sounded like a diesel on start-up! Somehow sold it for £800 and it got scrapped a year later at just 12 years old!
The car it replaced was a much newer (2003), lower mileage Vauxhall that I bought because I needed a car urgently. On a few separate occasions it would randomly lose power when driving and the engine light would start flashing. Switching it off and on again would cure it, but never felt confident that the car would ever complete a journey. The timing chain also stretched and it sounded like a diesel on start-up! Somehow sold it for £800 and it got scrapped a year later at just 12 years old!
RobM77 said:
There are manufacturers that are usually trouble free (usually Japanese ones like Honda or Toyota) but I firmly believe that we should all buy the cars we want to drive and that suit our needs, rather than some mundane choice that we're frightened into buying by a clutch of rare problems talked about constantly on the internet. Life's too short.
I agree on this. I remember once when looking to buy a car reading too many reviews of models I was interested in. If I had taken on board all the faults I wouldn't have bought anything.I must admit to being very lucky on car reliability including 2 Renaults, a Clio that was faultless over 4 years and a Laguna which I also had for 4 years. Its only fault was a couple of failed electric windows and a starting issue that was fixed by the AA in 20minutes. And that was a car that had a horrendous reputation of all sorts of expensive catastrophes.
Sometimes it's just your luck no matter what car you buy.
Edited by ch108 on Monday 27th March 22:17
5harp3y said:
I've done 100k in my Volvo V40 from new in 4 years and all it has needed is tyres, servicing and brakes. It has had some software updates during services.
oh and i got a puncture .... but that's not the cars fault.
Super reliable, has NEVER ever let me down. and returns 60mpg every day.
But then that sort of annual mileage is going to be mostly relatively low stress thrumming along the motorway isn't it? oh and i got a puncture .... but that's not the cars fault.
Super reliable, has NEVER ever let me down. and returns 60mpg every day.
I put 51k on a Fiat Punto in just over two years in the same way and by then it was still on the original tyres (3mm on the front, 5 on the back) and bar servicing and petrol all I'd done was change the wiper blades and a headlight bulb.
But according to internet forums a Fiat is about as reliable as a smack addict.
Yipper said:
As always, just buy Japanese. They know how to make a car last. Lexus, Honda, etc.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-powe...
Take a look at say 2000-2006 Honda Civics or Mazda 5s, usually the arches and sills will be dissolving to nothing.http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-powe...
We have 2 Lexus's (Lexi) A 2005 LS430 and a 2000 Is200, The Is200 has been 100% faultless since we bought it and the LS430 needed a the suspension sorted and a lambda sensor which I don't think is too bad for a complicated old car. We spent 2 weeks looking for a replacement for the very elderly Is200 and there was nothing my wife liked that felt as well screwed together. (Even the latest IS200t felt a bit plasticky)
I think now if I had to buy a new car and it had to be 1000% reliable and didn't really care about much else a petrol powered Corolla would fit the bill perfectly, If we had more cash Toyota Landcruiser.
I think now if I had to buy a new car and it had to be 1000% reliable and didn't really care about much else a petrol powered Corolla would fit the bill perfectly, If we had more cash Toyota Landcruiser.
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