RE: Land Rover Discovery vs. mud

[TooMany2cvs]

DonkeyApple said:

andysgriff said:

No doubt they are but my comment was about the percentage of people who actually use them offroad, ie what they were designed to do.

Except it's not what they were designed to do. They were designed to be a multi-function road car with a broad spectrum of capabilities.

Or so says the marketing department.

Of course, no marketing department would ever - umm - embellish the truth, now would they?

[Derek Chevalier]

ChemicalChaos said:

This is OK on a high-grip surface, but not so great when the wheels in ground contact are on something slippery and the TC is fooled.

Why would the TC be fooled?

[anonymous-user]

Derek Chevalier said:

Why would the TC be fooled?

It wouldn't, I don't think he has ever seen Terrain Response in action.

[popeyewhite]

Derek Chevalier said:

ChemicalChaos said:

This is OK on a high-grip surface, but not so great when the wheels in ground contact are on something slippery and the TC is fooled.

Why would the TC be fooled?

All of these new Discos have nice comfy low profile road tyres anyway - TC won't help much on mud or snow. But like another poster has said - fine for the wife and the occasional trip across a dry paddock I suppose.

[Andehh]

ChemicalChaos said:

Andehh said:

Cotic said:

ChemicalChaos said:

Suprise surprise, Disco performs well at Eastnor Castle. Like all LR experience places, this is specifically and very carefully engineered to flatter their vehicles and make them seem impossibly capable.
Get on on a proper off road course with claggy mud, and the potential to get stuck or slither into something, and then see what happens

You know of a more capable production alternative to a Disco? Please tell! If you're really keen on mud-plugging, then a set of Malatestas and the optional locking diff are generally all you need. I've run many old Discos, two Disco 4's from new, and have a 5 on order - I make a point of taking each one on a proper off-road run during ownership, and I think the 5 will be the most capable yet.

Well said!

You only have to look at one on the terrapod course to see how modern Land Rovers all rely on fancy traction control to brake dangling wheels from comedically poor suspension droop, rather than good old fashioned axle articulation to actually keep them on the ground. This is OK on a high-grip surface, but not so great when the wheels in ground contact are on something slippery and the TC is fooled.
See also how their fat, stiff low profile tyres perform on a wet grassy field compared to something that presses onto the floor with skinny wheels.

...a bit like this? Out of the factory standard, Range Rover SVR accelerating to 60 on tarmac, mud, grass etc... Tarmac, 4.7 secs, gravel 5.3, grass 5.5, sand 5.5, mud 6.5, snow 10.5....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8izyPlLpJ5c

Outside of ridiculously ''big rocks to show my articulation'' territory, that Disco 5 will give any remotely standard ''off roader'' a run for it's money.... caveat of anything Wrangler like which comes out the factory with obscene knobbly tyres for 'stance' purposes.

edit:

Another video I found whilst looking for that^ Range Rover on grass video; this shows it out with 'good ol' boys' with several vehicles mucking around in your typical eastern european no-sts-given. New Range Rover SVR, land cruiser, subaru, couple of pretty highly modified vehicles. A full spectrum of cars people would default to when ''off roader'' comes to mind. Video just goes to prove that a fairly natural course (lots of mud & water) will defeat anything, but that the SVR can still represent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZPwm9vsGs

Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 29th March 11:22

[MorganP104]

Reading this thread, I kept coming across comments about the new Discovery having an "offset rear plate".

I thought the moaning was a bit over the top until I Googled a picture of the car's rear.



Dear god, it looks like the designer's pen slipped! I don't mind a properly offset plate (see previous Freelander, previous Discovery, etc.), but that one just looks totally wrong.

[DonkeyApple]

It does look a bit like it's had a stroke.

I tend to agree with whoever said it was a feature that would probably be silently lost in the facelift.

[popeyewhite]

Andehh said:

...a bit like this? Range Rover sport standing acceleration to 60 on tarmac, mud, grass etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8izyPlLpJ5c

A rear wheel Saloon would have done just as well in most of those conditions. The 'mud' condition was basically a dirty road!

[anonymous-user]

MorganP104 said:

Reading this thread, I kept coming across comments about the new Discovery having an "offset rear plate".

I thought the moaning was a bit over the top until I Googled a picture of the car's rear.



Dear god, it looks like the designer's pen slipped! I don't mind a properly offset plate (see previous Freelander, previous Discovery, etc.), but that one just looks totally wrong.

Indeed it does. In the flesh it also seems quite tall and narrow (not boxy like the D4), and as a result looks a bit like a Sprinter van.



My eyes!

[Andehh]

popeyewhite said:

Andehh said:

...a bit like this? Range Rover sport standing acceleration to 60 on tarmac, mud, grass etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8izyPlLpJ5c

A rear wheel Saloon would have done just as well in most of those conditions. The 'mud' condition was basically a dirty road!

There's always one. I have a 530D and made the mistake of attending a wedding in a field in it (told the wife it was a stupid idea). Some light rain, and I got stuck like a total tt and had to be pulled out. Gravel roads or bad lay bys on a busy road and watch me spin the rear wheels whilst the TC wonders what it was designed for.

Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 29th March 11:11

[popeyewhite]

Andehh said:

There's always one. I have a 530D and made the mistake of attending a wedding in a field in it (told the wife it was a stupid idea). Some light rain, and I got stuck like a total tt and had to be pulled out. Gravel roads or bad lay bys on a busy road and watch me spin the rear wheels whilst the TC wonders what it was designed for.

Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 29th March 11:11

Bad laybys??

[Derek Chevalier]

popeyewhite said:

Derek Chevalier said:

ChemicalChaos said:

This is OK on a high-grip surface, but not so great when the wheels in ground contact are on something slippery and the TC is fooled.

Why would the TC be fooled?

All of these new Discos have nice comfy low profile road tyres anyway - TC won't help much on mud or snow. But like another poster has said - fine for the wife and the occasional trip across a dry paddock I suppose.

It was possible to get the Disco 4 on 55 profile tyres, and checking an online configurator shows that similar profiles are available for D5.
Agreed that the OE tyres are marginal in mud/snow, despite being labelled A/T.

[Andehh]

popeyewhite said:

Andehh said:

There's always one. I have a 530D and made the mistake of attending a wedding in a field in it (told the wife it was a stupid idea). Some light rain, and I got stuck like a total tt and had to be pulled out. Gravel roads or bad lay bys on a busy road and watch me spin the rear wheels whilst the TC wonders what it was designed for.

Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 29th March 11:11

Bad laybys??

Your point being?

[anonymous-user]

popeyewhite said:

All of these new Discos have nice comfy low profile road tyres anyway - TC won't help much on mud or snow. But like another poster has said - fine for the wife and the occasional trip across a dry paddock I suppose.

Yet again you're talking out of your arse. The Tc has speciifc settings for dealing with various surfaces, Mud and snow are two specifc ones.

The vehicles at LRE centres are on standard factory tyres and seem to cope just fine with plenty of mud.

I've had our D3 and subsequent D4s on standard factory tyres at places like Kirton Lindsey and both Discos and the current FFRR on shoots in deep mud, ruts. up and down inclines, wet grassy fields etc alongside Defenders, Hiluxes and the like.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th March 11:30

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th March 11:33

[popeyewhite]

Derek Chevalier said:

It was possible to get the Disco 4 on 55 profile tyres, and checking an online configurator shows that similar profiles are available for D5.
Agreed that the OE tyres are marginal in mud/snow, despite being labelled A/T.

Sure the Pirellis are pretty poor off road. A 55 profile tyre isn't enough really, for something capable off road on a D4 I'd go 65 or 70. Then some suspension adaptation is necessary.

[popeyewhite]

Andehh said:

Your point being?

Seriously??

[AnduHowman]

There is so much criticism of everything these days just because people think about things differently when really there is plenty of scope for different products that meet peoples very varied needs and budgets!

My family often had Freelanders (an early 1.8, then a Td4, then a Freelander 2) since they first came out through to a new Disco Sport as a general daily work vehicle for my Dad and certainly early on with the Freelander we often got idiots claiming they were crap off road and no use and we should have a proper land rover. They had no idea of what we did, what our needs were, what our budgets are, what we prioritise.

It certainly never occurred to them that we also had a couple of defenders and a series 3 as well anyway They all served different purposes and had different strengths. Certainly if we knew we would be in a muddy rutty bit of woodland then take a Defender, if we were shifting kit down the motorway and then through some fields then the Freelander/Disco. If it was snowing then Freelander / Discovery every time!

The newer range of vehicles has made JLR a success so well done to them with that - I quite like the designs over all but you cant always please everyone can you? Hope it sells well and they keep making vehicles. The change from old axles to independent suspension is good as you get better ground clearance as you arent dragging a diff along the ground, you dont get cross axled and they have a better standard wading depth. If they made a new Defender I doubt it would use an old school axle

Despite being a land rover fan I currently drive round in an X5 (and have had people say - oh thats st why didnt you get XYZ!) , have a Shogun Sport and a Defender and I like all of them for different things. I see people in the XC90 and think "mmm comfortable" and its on my shopping list rather than thinking they are fools and should have purchased a Discovery 4 or a Hyuandai Santa Fe

[MorganP104]

Andehh said:

popeyewhite said:

Andehh said:

There's always one. I have a 530D and made the mistake of attending a wedding in a field in it (told the wife it was a stupid idea). Some light rain, and I got stuck like a total tt and had to be pulled out. Gravel roads or bad lay bys on a busy road and watch me spin the rear wheels whilst the TC wonders what it was designed for.

Edited by Andehh on Wednesday 29th March 11:11

Bad laybys??

Your point being?

That's not a bad layby. THIS is a bad layby!

[Derek Chevalier]

popeyewhite said:

Derek Chevalier said:

It was possible to get the Disco 4 on 55 profile tyres, and checking an online configurator shows that similar profiles are available for D5.
Agreed that the OE tyres are marginal in mud/snow, despite being labelled A/T.

Sure the Pirellis are pretty poor off road. A 55 profile tyre isn't enough really, for something capable off road on a D4 I'd go 65 or 70. Then some suspension adaptation is necessary.

What suspension adaption would you need?

[TurboHatchback]

I must admit I really don't like the look of these, or any of the new generation of SUVs. To me 4x4s should be boxy and utilitarian looking, all these blobby curves on tall vehicles make them look all wrong to me. I'd be interested to know about the actual off road hardware, I'm not interested in acronyms and electronic brake nibbling systems, I want to know which differentials are lockable, what the transfer case low ratio is, approach/breakover/departure angles, suspension travel etc.

Ultimately off road and on road use require opposing design traits and a compromise must be settled for on a vehicle designed for both. Tyres cannot perform well both in deep mud and at high speed on tarmac, suspension cannot provide tight body control and huge articulation and ground clearance without complex and unreliable air/hydraulic systems. I think the Disco is probably a good compromise for the average UK consumer, more off-road ability than most will ever use but a decent on-road drive. Ultimately I wouldn't trust one for a serious expedition off road away from breakdown cover and it wouldn't last at all in a serious constant off road use environment like a mine or similar but that's not what they're for.