What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?
Discussion
The non-bikers probably won't appreciate it, but the ZZR1100 engine is the one for me.
Not only did this engine power the world's fastest bike for NINE YEARS (and Honda only beat it with bigger capacity and silly gearing), using it is a lesson in how engines should feel.
Creamy smooth. A lot of people nowadays won't understand that for what I mean. It idled like any other decent size I4. But when you wound it toward the red line, it never, ever felt scratchy and strained, like today's emissions-legislated units. Better than that was how elastic it was. Again, not in the modern sense (although of course at 1098cc it was very tractable in a bike), but in the way a catapult launches something elastically. There's a moment where you open the throttle and... nothing happens. It's only a split second, nothing to affect the acceleration figures, but enough for the engine to ask 'Are you sure?’, and give you a chance to say 'no, not really'. Then it begins...
Second or sixth, who cares? It launches you in a way no engine ever has since. Building and building and building like half a Polo mint being propelled by a schoolboy with an elastic band. All of a sudden, 'over there' is behind you and it's time to change gear. Never winding down, never relenting, but that smoothness has to be felt to be believed.
In a motorbike with handling and brakes it'd have been amazing, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time with mine. One track day, despite the mass and brakes (and luggage rack) it was embarrassing just how much faster it was than everything. But only in a straight line!
Not only did this engine power the world's fastest bike for NINE YEARS (and Honda only beat it with bigger capacity and silly gearing), using it is a lesson in how engines should feel.
Creamy smooth. A lot of people nowadays won't understand that for what I mean. It idled like any other decent size I4. But when you wound it toward the red line, it never, ever felt scratchy and strained, like today's emissions-legislated units. Better than that was how elastic it was. Again, not in the modern sense (although of course at 1098cc it was very tractable in a bike), but in the way a catapult launches something elastically. There's a moment where you open the throttle and... nothing happens. It's only a split second, nothing to affect the acceleration figures, but enough for the engine to ask 'Are you sure?’, and give you a chance to say 'no, not really'. Then it begins...
Second or sixth, who cares? It launches you in a way no engine ever has since. Building and building and building like half a Polo mint being propelled by a schoolboy with an elastic band. All of a sudden, 'over there' is behind you and it's time to change gear. Never winding down, never relenting, but that smoothness has to be felt to be believed.
In a motorbike with handling and brakes it'd have been amazing, but I thoroughly enjoyed my time with mine. One track day, despite the mass and brakes (and luggage rack) it was embarrassing just how much faster it was than everything. But only in a straight line!
gazza285 said:
Ford Kent. Provided the building blocks for the FVA, BDA/BDT, Lotus Twincam, and one of the greatest F1 engines of all time, the DFV.
Launched a thousand motorsports careers, and powered cars from Anglias in the late 50s, to TVRs, Marcos, Morgan, Caterham, millions of Escorts, Capris, Transits and Fiestas, before finally ending UK availability in 2002. Still being made though.
The Kent was a wonderful engine all right, and famously morphed into the F3 screamer Cosworth MAE (Modified Anglia Engine ) . The Lotus twin cam also used the Kent block . But the DFV was a clean sheet project with no Kent element , and was funded by Ford for Lotus' exclusive use originally . And the rest is history ... Launched a thousand motorsports careers, and powered cars from Anglias in the late 50s, to TVRs, Marcos, Morgan, Caterham, millions of Escorts, Capris, Transits and Fiestas, before finally ending UK availability in 2002. Still being made though.
The Vauxhall C20XE and the C20LET turbo brother have got to have a good claim for a podium. Used by everyone wanting a faster Nova or Corsa threw them in, tonnes of teams used them in racing applications, they were apparently a bolt up to the Ford Type 9 gearbox too. Shame they've gone crazy in price now. I remember kits with subframes, ECU's, engine, gearbox and all sorts where you could pretty much bolt in an engine swap for £500. Now you're looking double that for the engine alone, with no guarantee it'll run. Crazy.
Can we have a shout out the Mazda B engine from the MX5 etc too? Capable of handling double the original power with a turbo and a coolant hose modification. Reliable, plentiful, cheap to get bits for, and non-interference for when you can't be bothered changing the timing belt.
Can we have a shout out the Mazda B engine from the MX5 etc too? Capable of handling double the original power with a turbo and a coolant hose modification. Reliable, plentiful, cheap to get bits for, and non-interference for when you can't be bothered changing the timing belt.
Filibuster said:
Volvo B18 / B20 engine!
Proper old school pushrod engine. They are able to run up to 3 million miles!
Blueprinted version are able to deliver up to 80hp/l, completely durable and drivable. Not bad for a nearly 60 year old design!
But they sure are, well... let's say charismatic!!
Nobody share some old school Volvo love? Proper old school pushrod engine. They are able to run up to 3 million miles!
Blueprinted version are able to deliver up to 80hp/l, completely durable and drivable. Not bad for a nearly 60 year old design!
But they sure are, well... let's say charismatic!!
coppice said:
gazza285 said:
Ford Kent. Provided the building blocks for the FVA, BDA/BDT, Lotus Twincam, and one of the greatest F1 engines of all time, the DFV.
Launched a thousand motorsports careers, and powered cars from Anglias in the late 50s, to TVRs, Marcos, Morgan, Caterham, millions of Escorts, Capris, Transits and Fiestas, before finally ending UK availability in 2002. Still being made though.
The Kent was a wonderful engine all right, and famously morphed into the F3 screamer Cosworth MAE (Modified Anglia Engine ) . The Lotus twin cam also used the Kent block . But the DFV was a clean sheet project with no Kent element , and was funded by Ford for Lotus' exclusive use originally . And the rest is history ... Launched a thousand motorsports careers, and powered cars from Anglias in the late 50s, to TVRs, Marcos, Morgan, Caterham, millions of Escorts, Capris, Transits and Fiestas, before finally ending UK availability in 2002. Still being made though.
Best means different things to different people, and of course the application is key.
I can't think too long about memorable four pot engines without thinking of the Cosworth YB though. Tuneable road car engine that made some really quite silly numbers in race trim, and threw a Sierra up the road at an outrageous pace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMfRfYfybo
I can't think too long about memorable four pot engines without thinking of the Cosworth YB though. Tuneable road car engine that made some really quite silly numbers in race trim, and threw a Sierra up the road at an outrageous pace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASMfRfYfybo
Kes Arevo said:
The 3S-GTE.
The Mr2 turbo.
The Celica GT4
And it was so good they swapped out the 3.0 V6 from the supra and used the GTE in the JGTC.
The pull on that engine was brilliant. Great MPG too, when not hooning. Extremely tunable as well.
It was a good engine, not sure about great MPG though as my mr2 turbo used to get 25 mpg at the absolute best!The Mr2 turbo.
The Celica GT4
And it was so good they swapped out the 3.0 V6 from the supra and used the GTE in the JGTC.
The pull on that engine was brilliant. Great MPG too, when not hooning. Extremely tunable as well.
TameRacingDriver said:
It was a good engine, not sure about great MPG though as my mr2 turbo used to get 25 mpg at the absolute best!
I could squeeze out a good 30mpg just pootling along with normal traffic, considering the HP and the era. When pushing the fun pedal it dropped considerably!Kes Arevo said:
havoc said:
That'd be down to weight and regulation advantages, as much as the ability of the engine.
I understand why they did it.If they did it because it gave them a competitive advantage under the regs, doesn't mean it was a better engine than the V6 for a road-going application.
Same as DTM going to blown 4-pots. You'll never see an R8 or an M3 with a 4-pot, and you wouldn't want to buy one, yet the racers have them. Doesn't mean the 4-pot is better...
havoc said:
So why did you say "it was so good they swapped out the V6 for JGTC"?
If they did it because it gave them a competitive advantage under the regs, doesn't mean it was a better engine than the V6 for a road-going application.
Same as DTM going to blown 4-pots. You'll never see an R8 or an M3 with a 4-pot, and you wouldn't want to buy one, yet the racers have them. Doesn't mean the 4-pot is better...
It just means it was good enough to replace a 6-pot 3 litre turbo engine, and still remain extremely competitive. It was lighter, could get the same horsepower, could be positioned better, etc, all with less capacity, and dropping 2 cylinders.If they did it because it gave them a competitive advantage under the regs, doesn't mean it was a better engine than the V6 for a road-going application.
Same as DTM going to blown 4-pots. You'll never see an R8 or an M3 with a 4-pot, and you wouldn't want to buy one, yet the racers have them. Doesn't mean the 4-pot is better...
This isn't a difficult concept and not sure why you are taking such umbrage to a simple opinion about it being a good engine.
Kes Arevo said:
...not sure why you are taking such umbrage to a simple opinion about it being a good engine.
Because you've not just offered a 'simple opinion' - you're claiming plaudits for it that aren't relevant for the road-going version, and that are based on the very specific, regulation-bound environment of competition. On top of which you're comparing it to a rather old V6. May as well compare the YB to the Essex... :shrug:I'm not saying it's NOT a good engine. But you can fit a turbo to a K20, modify it further, and get 1,000bhp out of it (more than the GTE)...doesn't mean that the K20 is the best 4-pot out there.
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