What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?
Discussion
Niponeoff said:
What The Deuces said:
havoc said:
As above, not something you can service once a year and forget about though! 
(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
240bhp from an n\a 1.6 must be revving to 10grand pretty much, he's either talking s(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
t or he has a load of cash sunk into it.over 10k rpm, not sure what the rebuild interval was though
carlo996 said:
What The Deuces said:
Gtxxjon said:
Ford twin cam 1600, back in the day, 100bhp stock!
Then the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Erm thats a Lotus twin cam not a ford....its just a Ford 116E block, the rest is Lotus with input from both Costin and DuckworthThen the humble 'Redtop' two litre Vauxhall 160bhp, good for 300bhp with a Coscast head.
Edited by Gtxxjon on Thursday 2nd March 09:35
Also 300bhp on a Red Top is a race build (if n/a), theres plenty of other engines that also do that..., plus the later Red Tops without the coscast heads were porous and s
teEdited by What The Deuces on Thursday 2nd March 09:57
At least I know what engine I’m looking at though
For me the Hillman Imp engine is the favourite, standard you could tweak it to run to 7500 rpm, with a lightened flywheel it weight 68 kg’s and it could quite easily reach 118 bhp in race trim at 998cc capacity. Sounded great, wedge shaped combustion chamber was brilliant for good torque as well.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 127 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 128 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
My Mum had a 127 with the same 1050cc engine, probably in a lower state of tune though. She hated the car for some reason, but the engine was a peach. Real zinger and a nice rorty exhaust. 1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
Rutland lad said:
I owned from new a Fiat 128 Sport in 1979.
1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
In the 1990s a friend, a Mechanic, of a friend had one of those engines on an engine stand in his house.1050cc of Fiats finest madness.
It made 70bhp, but would Rev to the red line of 7,200rpm on its twin choke Weber easily.
As an exuberant youth, I once embarked on an overtake somewhere on the Lake District in 3rd gear, which was good for 70mph as I recall. Needless to say, my failure to accurately assess the speed and distance of the oncoming vehicle meant I couldn’t afford to take my foot off the throttle as the red line loomed closer … my passenger told me afterwards that the Rev counter actually showed 8,500rpm before we regained our side of the road. Thank God there were no Rev limiters in those days.
It never used oil, and I sold it after 75,000 miles of hard work.
I did own the classic Fiat twin cam in 1600cc form, but that firstly little 1050cc lump was a classic in my humble opinion.
For me the Hillman Imp engine is the favourite, standard you could tweak it to run to 7500 rpm, with a lightened flywheel it weight 68 kg’s and it could quite easily reach 118 bhp in race trim at 998cc capacity. Sounded great, wedge shaped combustion chamber was brilliant for good torque as well.
Limpet said:
georgezippy said:
I DID for may years run a ZZR600, and whilst it wasn't an engine with any notable character, it had more go than ANY other 600 of the era that I rode, I once borrowed a similar era CBR600 and thought it was broken, I had to rev the nads off it to get it to move, and it was a lighter bike too, same with an R6 and a Fazer. I was relieved to get back on my ZZR which actually had some midrange.
Average handling though.
I had a 94 ZZR600 as my first "big" bike, and it felt like a rocket ship to a newly qualified rider as you would expect, but even as I gained experience and rode other stuff, I still thought what a nice engine it was. Average handling though.
I remember picking up a CBR600 F4i that my brother-in-law had bought, and dropping it round to his house, and thinking the same as you re the engine. The Honda was 8 years newer, had 12,000 fewer miles on it, and had fancy EFI rather than those old-fashioned Keihin carbs, with about 10 bhp on the Kawasaki engine on paper. First time I wound it on, I remember thinking "oh... is that it?" It just felt really flat and lacklustre compared to the older Kawasaki engine.
I'm not sure I agree re lack of notable character. It screamed its way to 14,000 RPM with a really quite lovely airbox howl, and although torquey (for a 600), it really woke up past 9,000 RPM. Yet it was tractable enough to easily keep up with traffic without going past 4,000. Still completely oil tight at 30,000 miles, and dyno'd at 25,000 miles on Grant Perrin's dyno at 101 bhp at the crank.
Gets very stroppy if you start messing with exhausts and cans though, as I found out expensively.
Edited by Limpet on Tuesday 28th February 11:48
Kawasaki seem to make good engine that sound lovely too.
coppice said:
"Best" means everything from "one I like " to "one I've read about it " and (especially ) "the one in my car" . I will nominate the 2.9 litre straight four in the Ford Model T on the ground that it made travel available for the first time to so many and thus changed more people's lives for the better than any other engine. Not as good to listen to as a BMW M12/7 (as fitted to Seventies F2 cars) , nor as popular as many Japanese screamers nor as loved as the A Series but the engine in the car which helped changed the world for the better . For a time , anyway ....
Kinda my point about the old vag 1.9tdi, or, I guess, the old beetle flat four which although completely different in layout and fuel has thar same unburstable 'hi, how can I help' feeling about itKraymer said:
Maybe I'm biased, as I have a garage MY09 garage queen but has to be the S2000. When you hear the V-TEC kick in then climb to 9000rpm, the noise is mesmerising! Especially with an aftermarket induction kit, exhaust and straight pipe! Cannot beat the raw engine noise!
Don't garage queen it, I've been known to drive mine roof down in the snow 
The only thing it's missing is heated seats. The heater at max in "roof down mode" will pretty much cook your feet.
When we went to collect it, Mrs D drove it home and kept buzzing me on a DC. I remember thinking "that's an interesting warble from a 4-cylinder". Maybe it's a resonator or similar but the exhaust tone is definitely coloured in some way.
Edited by donkmeister on Saturday 4th March 01:27
Niponeoff said:
What The Deuces said:
havoc said:
As above, not something you can service once a year and forget about though!
(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
240bhp from an n\a 1.6 must be revving to 10grand pretty much, he's either talking s(A neighbour, who I actually used to work with, has a Caterham with a Minster engine in it - he claims 240bhp from a 1.6, and whilst I think he's embellishing a little, it is a rather nice piece of kit...from my perspective, anything which can see the far side of 8,000rpm is worthy of respect)
t or he has a load of cash sunk into it.donkmeister said:
Kraymer said:
Maybe I'm biased, as I have a garage MY09 garage queen but has to be the S2000. When you hear the V-TEC kick in then climb to 9000rpm, the noise is mesmerising! Especially with an aftermarket induction kit, exhaust and straight pipe! Cannot beat the raw engine noise!
Don't garage queen it, I've been known to drive mine roof down in the snow 
It was early March, thinking about it.Kraymer said:
Maybe I'm biased, as I have a garage MY09 garage queen but has to be the S2000. When you hear the V-TEC kick in then climb to 9000rpm, the noise is mesmerising! Especially with an aftermarket induction kit, exhaust and straight pipe! Cannot beat the raw engine noise!
Have to agree lovely sound from them motors, have a Acura RSX Type S over here in the states, pretty much same engine as yours and sounds amazing, even with 240,000+ miles on it!Used to live in East coast side of south Florida, each month would go across the everglades and then cut up through Immokalee as all the other guys would to go and autocross in Lee High Acres. Awesome drive on way back as all the cars would run together. Towing my Z behind my Nissan X Terrra even though supercharged and with a 5 SPD it was still a little gutless. Running down one of the two lane back roads a group of S 2000's caught up with me and passed. Window was open and sound of those cars passing by would change a die hard tesla fan into appreciating the sound of those motors!
rjracin240 said:
Kraymer said:
Maybe I'm biased, as I have a garage MY09 garage queen but has to be the S2000. When you hear the V-TEC kick in then climb to 9000rpm, the noise is mesmerising! Especially with an aftermarket induction kit, exhaust and straight pipe! Cannot beat the raw engine noise!
Have to agree lovely sound from them motors, have a Acura RSX Type S over here in the states, pretty much same engine as yours and sounds amazing, even with 240,000+ miles on it!Used to live in East coast side of south Florida, each month would go across the everglades and then cut up through Immokalee as all the other guys would to go and autocross in Lee High Acres. Awesome drive on way back as all the cars would run together. Towing my Z behind my Nissan X Terrra even though supercharged and with a 5 SPD it was still a little gutless. Running down one of the two lane back roads a group of S 2000's caught up with me and passed. Window was open and sound of those cars passing by would change a die hard tesla fan into appreciating the sound of those motors!
rjracin240 said:
Have to agree lovely sound from them motors, have a Acura RSX Type S over here in the states, pretty much same engine as yours
Without wishing to be too anorak, the F20C and the K20A are actually quite different.(Owned cars with both, and understand some of the tech differences)
rjracin240 said:
Have to agree lovely sound from them motors, have a Acura RSX Type S over here in the states, pretty much same engine as yours and sounds amazing, even with 240,000+ miles on it!
Sorry to break this to you, but it's a completely different engine in yours that shares nothing with the S2000 - the K20, with it's constantly variable iVTEC, compared to the simpler VTEC of the B18 and F20. Whilst grunty (and relatively easy to get lots more power out of), it's not got the character of the earlier B18C6 from the DC2 Type R or the F20C in the S2000!My personal fav is the B18C6 as I've had three of them, one in a very highly-strung state of tune. They make a magnificent induction noise and have so much energy on VTEC!
Edited by nebpor on Saturday 4th March 14:35
havoc said:
Without wishing to be too anorak, the F20C and the K20A are actually quite different.
(Owned cars with both, and understand some of the tech differences)
LOL you are absolutely right, I need to get my nose out of the old Datsun books and into other manufacturer books.(Owned cars with both, and understand some of the tech differences)
Thought all these years that the RSX had the same motor, but none the less that motor in the RSX Type-S is still a sweet motor and sounds amazing going through the gears.
Another case in point for me is, just got a 1995 Miata which has the 1.8 in it. Thought the motor was the same as the earlier Miata 1.6's just a bore and stroke. Understand they are totally different motors.
Thanks for the correction
nebpor said:
Sorry to break this to you, but it's a completely different engine in yours that shares nothing with the S2000 - the K20, with it's constantly variable iVTEC, compared to the simpler VTEC of the B18 and F20. Whilst grunty (and relatively easy to get lots more power out of), it's not got the character of the earlier B18C6 from the DC2 Type R or the F20C in the S2000!
My personal fav is the B18C6 as I've had three of them, one in a very highly-strung state of tune. They make a magnificent induction noise and have so much energy on VTEC!
Agree there. My b18c on a buddy club exhaust has to be one of the most ripping noises going 👌My personal fav is the B18C6 as I've had three of them, one in a very highly-strung state of tune. They make a magnificent induction noise and have so much energy on VTEC!
Edited by nebpor on Saturday 4th March 14:35
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