What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?

[AmyRichardson]

coppice said:

Cosworth FVA/FVC or one of the BMW F2 engines - both hugely successful .And sounded a bit more feral than a Honda S2000 too....

Yup. You could pick just about any 1.5/1.6 F1/F2 engine from the 60s and they sound ferocious - miles ahead of anything road based.

[808 Estate]

Yamaha V-Max

[coppice]

AmyRichardson said:

coppice said:

Cosworth FVA/FVC or one of the BMW F2 engines - both hugely successful .And sounded a bit more feral than a Honda S2000 too....

Yup. You could pick just about any 1.5/1.6 F1/F2 engine from the 60s and they sound ferocious - miles ahead of anything road based.

I do smile when I read about an endless list of doubtless very efficient but pretty anodyne sounding road car engines. Very , very few road cars sound particularly impressive , or deliver a huge amount of power compared to their competition counterparts. I've been perving over race engines for decades ,and 4 pot highlights include the Cosworth FVA and FVC , a well fettled MAE in 1 litre F3 and that insanely aggressive sounding BMW M12/7 F 2 engine from the mid Seventies.

[Lotobear]

ClaphamGT3 said:

boyse7en said:

A controversial choice, but how about the A-series?


Available in 9 different capacities from the factory (and many more by tuners)

Probably the most widely-used four-cylinder engine in history - Morris Minor, Mini, MG, Metro, Austin Healey, Austins, Morrises, Vanden Plas, Wolseleys, Rileys, Allegro, Montego, Maestro...

Won the Monte Carlo Rally outright three times (beating several Porsches) - should have been four, but for disqualification over a headlamp bulb.
Won numerous other rallies around the world
Won numerous british and European saloon car championships
Won numerous endurance racing championships

I came to post this. I think people forget how advanced, how versatile and how efficient the A series was

It was a succesful engine but a great engine?, no (and I speak as a big fan and serial fettler of the A series). It was probably cutting edge in the 50's but went on for way too long.

Undersquare and long stroke especially in the larger capacity versions - rough
Siamesed ports - wheezy
3 bearing crank - knocked out middle bearings common in larger units
Mini applications - a heavy recprocating mass hanging off the end of the crank, causing whip and exacerbating the issues of a 3 bearing design

Still love them but a 'great' engine - no

[AW111]

Lotobear said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

boyse7en said:

A controversial choice, but how about the A-series?


Available in 9 different capacities from the factory (and many more by tuners)

Probably the most widely-used four-cylinder engine in history - Morris Minor, Mini, MG, Metro, Austin Healey, Austins, Morrises, Vanden Plas, Wolseleys, Rileys, Allegro, Montego, Maestro...

Won the Monte Carlo Rally outright three times (beating several Porsches) - should have been four, but for disqualification over a headlamp bulb.
Won numerous other rallies around the world
Won numerous british and European saloon car championships
Won numerous endurance racing championships

I came to post this. I think people forget how advanced, how versatile and how efficient the A series was

It was a succesful engine but a great engine?, no (and I speak as a big fan and serial fettler of the A series). It was probably cutting edge in the 50's but went on for way too long.

Undersquare and long stroke especially in the larger capacity versions - rough
Siamesed ports - wheezy
3 bearing crank - knocked out middle bearings common in larger units
Mini applications - a heavy recprocating mass hanging off the end of the crank, causing whip and exacerbating the issues of a 3 bearing design

Still love them but a 'great' engine - no

The amusing thing is that Nissan licensed the A series, fixed the ports, fixed the crankshaft, and sold approx. 11 bazillion of them in sundry small cars.
Even after they stopped using them in cars they had a long life as forklift engines.

Shame Austin / BL / BMC / whoever didn't fix anything, just churned out a 50's motor virtually unchanged for 30 odd years.

[Hol]

I feel that these ‘choose one’ threads are flawed as each decade sees one or more technological advances.

For example (but not everything)..

The 70’s saw the first of the 16v engines such as the BDA and also quirky designs like the flat four Alfasud, which was quick for its low capacity. Carbs were the norm, but fuel injection started to appear.

The 80’s heralded the Turbo era with high profile,production offerings from the Montego Turbo, the Sierra Cosworth, the Mitsubishi Starion, and hot hatches like the 5GTT and Golf GTI as well as the first of the first NA 16v engines from Vauxhall and Peugeot.

The 90’s introduced the JDM revolution with Subaru, Mitsi EVO and Toyota providing reliable turbo power that could be remapped.
The NA market changes with the high revving variable valves engines from Honda, Toyota and Mitsubishi, which were again a game changer.

Etc..

Etc…


Each decade had a hero for everyone, dependent of whether you wanted a torquey turbo or an injected NA.

Edited by Hol on Thursday 4th January 09:33

[Supersam83]

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb⋅ft (545 N⋅m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

[havoc]

carlo996 said:

Overall for me the B18 has that something, it’s just so angry.

In a qualitative sense, I'd agree with you - particularly on a cold winter's morning where for some reason opening it up for the first time once warm ALWAYS put a big grin on my face...just so alive, so feral.

Only 4-pot sound that's compared in my experience was in a Caterham R300 and had roller-barrel TBs.


BUT...there are a couple of 4-pots out there with more flexibility, more power AND with a very good sound - BMW S14 and Honda K20 spring immediately to mind, even though they're both a more mechanical sound than the B18C.

[AW111]

1959 Maserati Tipo 60.

2 litre twincam / 200 hp

[Drive Blind]

folk suggesting the VW 1.9 tdi,,,,,, have a word with yourself.

[irish boy]

Drive Blind said:

folk suggesting the VW 1.9 tdi,,,,,, have a word with yourself.

This.

It doesn’t hold a candle to the 1CD-ftv Toyota gen 1 D4D.

[carlo996]

Supersam83 said:

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb?ft (545 N?m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

Technically brilliant, but dull like most FI engines as it doesn’t rev.

Has anyone mentioned the boxer 4 in the Alfasud or the Saab 4 cylinder which was hugely tuneable?

[Stu0221]

Supersam83 said:

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb?ft (545 N?m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

Objectively, a good engine based on the stats. Unfortunately, the actual engine just leaves me cold. Even at full revs. the engine sounds very chilled out and like it's not trying.

[Watcher of the skies]

Drive Blind said:

folk suggesting the VW 1.9 tdi,,,,,, have a word with yourself.

I'll raise you the Ford CVH

[AW111]

Watcher of the skies said:

Drive Blind said:

folk suggesting the VW 1.9 tdi,,,,,, have a word with yourself.

I'll raise you the Ford CVH

Commer knocker? It's a 3 cylinder with 6 pistons, so it averages out to 4.5 piston-cylinders.

[pheonix478]

Watcher of the skies said:

I'll raise you the Ford CVH

I had a 1.6 CVH on Webers for a while. It was ace.

[AceRockatansky]

Stu0221 said:

Supersam83 said:

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb?ft (545 N?m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

Objectively, a good engine based on the stats. Unfortunately, the actual engine just leaves me cold. Even at full revs. the engine sounds very chilled out and like it's not trying.

It's a good engine, but getting power with a turbo isn't difficult. The YB was easily capable of that out the box and it's nearly 40 years old.

[biggbn]

Drive Blind said:

folk suggesting the VW 1.9 tdi,,,,,, have a word with yourself.

Please note the word best in the thread title is in inverted commas. Surely depends on your definition of best? Best performance? Gotta be the old BMW 1.5 four pot F1 engines, hand grenade qualifying spec saw over 1000hp and a power delivery like putting a light on. Most tuneful? Various Italian and British twin cams, Subaru Boxer, Alfa boxer. Redefined a market sector? VAG 1.9TDi and PSA 1.7/1.9TDi. Brought personal transport to the people? Ford Model T four pot, Beetle flat four....define best? I make no apologies for voting for the VAG 1.9. Frugal, quick (in its time), game changer, very tuneable, very reliable, long lived, many applications.

[MustangGT]

Supersam83 said:

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb?ft (545 N?m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

I think the C63 now has up to 503 hp from this engine. We have the 'lowly' 300 bhp version in my wife's A35 AMG.

[AceRockatansky]

MustangGT said:

Supersam83 said:

Surely the best 4-cylinder engine has to be the Mercedes Benz M139L 2.0 Litre.

469 hp (350 kW) at 6,750 rpm

402 lb?ft (545 N?m) at 5,250-5,500 rpm

The Mercedes Benz M139L is the world's most powerful four-cylinder engine in serial production with 234.5bhp per litre or 117.25bhp per cylinder.

https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en/world-of-amg/news/...

I think the C63 now has up to 503 hp from this engine. We have the 'lowly' 300 bhp version in my wife's A35 AMG.

A35 isn't the same engine. Yours is the M260 which is a tuned version of the A250, derived from the M270.

The M139 is completely different beast. The M177 (V8) was developed from it's predecessor the M133, which was basically 2 put together to make the V8 bi turbo.