What is the "best" 4 cylinder engine ever made?
Discussion
Gad-Westy said:
.
To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
I had a 1.4K SS and it sounded amazing . As you say , no torque but revved forever. I later had a RBTB Duratec which sounded mean , pulled hard but lacked the little K's joie de vivre . 'Best '4 cylinder in this thread is 'ones I Iike ' and all the fours I really like are in racing and rally cars .But VAG 1.9PDI, yes I had one, very efficient , pulled hard but it's not a Cosworth MAE , FVC or BDA is it ? To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
coppice said:
Gad-Westy said:
.
To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
I had a 1.4K SS and it sounded amazing . As you say , no torque but revved forever. I later had a RBTB Duratec which sounded mean , pulled hard but lacked the little K's joie de vivre . 'Best '4 cylinder in this thread is 'ones I Iike ' and all the fours I really like are in racing and rally cars .But VAG 1.9PDI, yes I had one, very efficient , pulled hard but it's not a Cosworth MAE , FVC or BDA is it ? To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
biggbn said:
And again, it all cones down to your definition of best?
And 'when' is also a consideration - as in comparison to it's competitors at the time of introductionWhat is the better engine the (from 1952) 'B' Series as in an MGB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_B-series_engine
or the (from 1954) Alfa Romeo Twin Cam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Twin_Cam_...
Sorry, no-brainer.....
The Alfa engine is more powerful, lighter and is a thing of beauty IMHO
alfaspecial said:
biggbn said:
And again, it all cones down to your definition of best?
And 'when' is also a consideration - as in comparison to it's competitors at the time of introductionWhat is the better engine the (from 1952) 'B' Series as in an MGB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_B-series_engine
or the (from 1954) Alfa Romeo Twin Cam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Twin_Cam_...
Sorry, no-brainer.....
The Alfa engine is more powerful, lighter and is a thing of beauty IMHO
sunbeam alpine said:
alfaspecial said:
biggbn said:
And again, it all cones down to your definition of best?
And 'when' is also a consideration - as in comparison to it's competitors at the time of introductionWhat is the better engine the (from 1952) 'B' Series as in an MGB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMC_B-series_engine
or the (from 1954) Alfa Romeo Twin Cam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_Twin_Cam_...
Sorry, no-brainer.....
The Alfa engine is more powerful, lighter and is a thing of beauty IMHO
coppice said:
Gad-Westy said:
.
To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
I had a 1.4K SS and it sounded amazing . As you say , no torque but revved forever. I later had a RBTB Duratec which sounded mean , pulled hard but lacked the little K's joie de vivre . 'Best '4 cylinder in this thread is 'ones I Iike ' and all the fours I really like are in racing and rally cars .But VAG 1.9PDI, yes I had one, very efficient , pulled hard but it's not a Cosworth MAE , FVC or BDA is it ? To me it has to be a really angry sounding, revvy NA. I could think of umpteen race engines or near race engines that found their way into road cars but a lot of those are a bit too needy for my tastes. Of the more livable examples I've experienced, my three stand outs have been the BMW S14 engine, Honda K20 (it's the best really isn't it? I'm just loathe to single it out as it's so obvious) and a cool little dark horse entry was the 1400cc k-series in a supersport caterham. It made 130 bhp I believe, had no torque but had a lovely lack of inertia and revved so cleanly with a great bark. I'd love to built a 7 with one of those and the roller barrel throttles from the R500. A near boggo 1.8 k-series would have been a much easier way to get 130bhp but be far less interesting.
I cannot get excited about stuff like the AMG turbo engine above or the or any of the endless VAG TFSI type options. I've had a couple and I'm sure I'll have more as they're very effective, efficient etc particularly when paired to some 50 speed auto box but to be honest an EV probably offers those qualities more effectively.
DaveTheRave87 said:
I checked through 9 pages of this thread before it was mentioned but I have to agree here.
Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
If we were on the internet equivalent of"Practical Van and Minicab" magazine then I'd agree wholeheartedly.Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
But...
DaveTheRave87 said:
biggbn said:
Can't remember if I've contributed to this thread before but 1.9tdi vag engine was a game changer
I checked through 9 pages of this thread before it was mentioned but I have to agree here.Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
Drive Blind said:
DaveTheRave87 said:
biggbn said:
Can't remember if I've contributed to this thread before but 1.9tdi vag engine was a game changer
I checked through 9 pages of this thread before it was mentioned but I have to agree here.Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
Baldchap said:
I do remember reading at one point it was used in 29 vehicles.
That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
Given those 29 vehicles were only based off about 4 or 5 different platforms, not as big a badge as you might think.That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
...and whilst it was very effective, it wasn't a real game-changer as the PSA DW10 did a very similar job and was released around the same time - the PD's only unique feature was unit injection not common rail. And neither was exactly bombproof. Reliable and robust, yes, but both still had weak-points.
havoc said:
Baldchap said:
I do remember reading at one point it was used in 29 vehicles.
That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
Given those 29 vehicles were only based off about 4 or 5 different platforms, not as big a badge as you might think.That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
...and whilst it was very effective, it wasn't a real game-changer as the PSA DW10 did a very similar job and was released around the same time - the PD's only unique feature was unit injection not common rail. And neither was exactly bombproof. Reliable and robust, yes, but both still had weak-points.
Ubiquitous, mind.
Baldchap said:
havoc said:
Baldchap said:
I do remember reading at one point it was used in 29 vehicles.
That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
Given those 29 vehicles were only based off about 4 or 5 different platforms, not as big a badge as you might think.That's a fair badge of honour whether you like it or not...
...and whilst it was very effective, it wasn't a real game-changer as the PSA DW10 did a very similar job and was released around the same time - the PD's only unique feature was unit injection not common rail. And neither was exactly bombproof. Reliable and robust, yes, but both still had weak-points.
Ubiquitous, mind.
havoc said:
...and whilst it was very effective, it wasn't a real game-changer as the PSA DW10 did a very similar job and was released around the same time - the PD's only unique feature was unit injection not common rail. And neither was exactly bombproof. Reliable and robust, yes, but both still had weak-points.
The BMW M47 was also released at around the same time and I'd argue is better than both.Baldchap said:
I'm not for a second suggesting it's the best engine ever, or even particularly good in real terms.
Ubiquitous, mind.
Ubiquitous, mind.
biggbn said:
I really like them. Old school grunt and go, relatively simple and I think it WAS a game changer. The PSA Tdi engines were crackers for sure but they were fond of a head gasket or two, in 1.7 form anyway.
Are you thinking of the old (pre-PSA link-up) Ford lump (which was a 1.7), or the smaller DV-series (1.5 / 1.6 IIRC) as the PSA "DW" series only came in 2.0 and larger, and the old XUD (the "DTurbo" non-common-rail diesel) was a 1.9.A friend recently bought one of these for a song:
Hartley bolt. Based on the hayabusa but configured for longitudinal installation with conventional gearbox. Some very trick bits on it, especially the intercooler arrangement.
In standard form the bolt pattern is for a hewland ftr which I just happen to have from a stillborn project. That project has subsequently been reborn…
Hartley bolt. Based on the hayabusa but configured for longitudinal installation with conventional gearbox. Some very trick bits on it, especially the intercooler arrangement.
In standard form the bolt pattern is for a hewland ftr which I just happen to have from a stillborn project. That project has subsequently been reborn…
havoc said:
Baldchap said:
I'm not for a second suggesting it's the best engine ever, or even particularly good in real terms.
Ubiquitous, mind.
Ubiquitous, mind.
biggbn said:
I really like them. Old school grunt and go, relatively simple and I think it WAS a game changer. The PSA Tdi engines were crackers for sure but they were fond of a head gasket or two, in 1.7 form anyway.
Are you thinking of the old (pre-PSA link-up) Ford lump (which was a 1.7), or the smaller DV-series (1.5 / 1.6 IIRC) as the PSA "DW" series only came in 2.0 and larger, and the old XUD (the "DTurbo" non-common-rail diesel) was a 1.9.Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 24th April 16:27
Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 24th April 16:29
AmyRichardson said:
DaveTheRave87 said:
I checked through 9 pages of this thread before it was mentioned but I have to agree here.
Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
If we were on the internet equivalent of"Practical Van and Minicab" magazine then I'd agree wholeheartedly.Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
But...
Miserable agricultural thing, the thin end of the wedge for the utter insanity of putting diesel burning engines in passenger cars that gripped Europe for 15 unhappy years.
GeniusOfLove said:
AmyRichardson said:
DaveTheRave87 said:
I checked through 9 pages of this thread before it was mentioned but I have to agree here.
Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
If we were on the internet equivalent of"Practical Van and Minicab" magazine then I'd agree wholeheartedly.Used in so many applications from repmobiles on an economy run along a motorway to a hot hatch Skoda Fabia VRS.
Definitely not the most exciting engine out but one of the most capable ever made.
But...
Miserable agricultural thing, the thin end of the wedge for the utter insanity of putting diesel burning engines in passenger cars that gripped Europe for 15 unhappy years.
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