RE: 50 limits by the back door: PH Blog
Discussion
Is it possible to request figures for the amount of time each gantry spends at each restricted speed under the FOIA?
That would prove whether there was any monkey business going on or whether Dan just happened to be travelling this section at the wrong time.
I suspect that there are two hopes of getting a sensible answer to this, but worth asking the question?
That would prove whether there was any monkey business going on or whether Dan just happened to be travelling this section at the wrong time.
I suspect that there are two hopes of getting a sensible answer to this, but worth asking the question?
In terms of road fatalities per capita we have almost the safest roads (and thus road users) in the world - and this despite the crap driving that we all regularly see. While none would always be a noble objective, low thousands in a population approaching 65 million really isn't indicative of a road safety problem in general nor a speed issue in particular. It is at the point where the only way to materially improve things would be to ban 2 wheeled transport (IIRC bicycles and motorbikes combine to less than 1% of traffic and over 25% of the fatalities) and nobody in their right mind would propose that.
There is simply no justification for all of this 50mph/variable limit rubbish except where either there actually are people in the process of conducting road works or the traffic really is heading into a block of stationary traffic in a proper old fashioned jam. Almost never the case. It is ridiculous.
There is simply no justification for all of this 50mph/variable limit rubbish except where either there actually are people in the process of conducting road works or the traffic really is heading into a block of stationary traffic in a proper old fashioned jam. Almost never the case. It is ridiculous.
Debaser said:
Also, what is the delay between the signs illuminating, and the cameras working? If a gantry lit up with a speed limit as you passed under, would the camera flash?
I was told (by someone who allegedly knows about this stuff), that they allow you the time to brake sensibly, but not much more than that. I don't think they go from NSL to 40 in one go anyway?Dan Trent said:
I tagged them in the Tweet promoting the story and experience shows they do tend to respond! I came close to getting a session in the control room after my previous rant and need to get that conversation going again as I'm genuinely curious to see how it works from 'the other side'. I also know there are some PHers who work in these places who often throw in some valuable insight to the conversation.
As ever I'm willing to accept there are two sides to the story and the one from the operators/agencies rarely gets heard. To which I'll say give me the access and I'll give you the platform!
Cheers,
Dan
I would be very interested to hear the other side of the story. Variable speed limits drive me nuts, probably because I've never seen the research and logic behind them.As ever I'm willing to accept there are two sides to the story and the one from the operators/agencies rarely gets heard. To which I'll say give me the access and I'll give you the platform!
Cheers,
Dan
Drive between London and Leeds fairly frequently so I am very aware of the main 50 stretches around Northampton and then Sheffield...mind numbingly dull caught in these sections, particularly when its busy.
Any slower than 50 would be unbearable, I don't understand why a 60 limit can't be enforced during quieter hours or even 70 whilst no workers are on site.
Any slower than 50 would be unbearable, I don't understand why a 60 limit can't be enforced during quieter hours or even 70 whilst no workers are on site.
DeolTheBeast said:
Drive between London and Leeds fairly frequently so I am very aware of the main 50 stretches around Northampton and then Sheffield...mind numbingly dull caught in these sections, particularly when its busy.
Any slower than 50 would be unbearable, I don't understand why a 60 limit can't be enforced during quieter hours or even 70 whilst no workers are on site.
Theres plenty of motorway roadworks with a lane coned off that dont have a speed limit or a significant accident rateAny slower than 50 would be unbearable, I don't understand why a 60 limit can't be enforced during quieter hours or even 70 whilst no workers are on site.
Dont fall into the trap that a lower speed limit makes the roadworks safer
RobGT81 said:
NSL-50-40-NSL-40-60-50-NSL-30-60-40-NSL
From my experience, it appears that the NSL gantries never have cameras on, but the ones at 40mph, completely randomly amongst all the other NSL ones, at 11pm, on a Wednesday evening, with no traffic to be seen for miles, always have active cameras.I pity the person who failed to notice the Hadecs on the 40mph sign on the M6 a few weeks back. Waze was going bonkers so i slowed from 70 to 40, but he carried on at 70+ and the sky lit up like Guy Fawkes night
I cant count the number of times I've driven past a section of road signed up as workmen ahead and therefore the speed is reduced, only to find no one working at all.
Its infuriating. Many thousands of drivers will be expected to accelerate and brake according to the changing speed limits. Yes, they absolutely should abide by the road rules. I'm not disputing that. The problem is, I'm surrounded by god knows how many people concentrating on their phones, screaming kids, drunk and / or drugged, stereo, eating, reading the paper, and so on.
Asking these people to change their speeds frequently, when you may be talking about several thousand people all within seconds of each other, or more likely, tailgating to within half a second of each other, is just asking for trouble.
There are SO many problems, I just give up. AND whats with the 95% consultation result being disregarded?!? Someone ought to be hung up, drawn, and quartered.
Its infuriating. Many thousands of drivers will be expected to accelerate and brake according to the changing speed limits. Yes, they absolutely should abide by the road rules. I'm not disputing that. The problem is, I'm surrounded by god knows how many people concentrating on their phones, screaming kids, drunk and / or drugged, stereo, eating, reading the paper, and so on.
Asking these people to change their speeds frequently, when you may be talking about several thousand people all within seconds of each other, or more likely, tailgating to within half a second of each other, is just asking for trouble.
There are SO many problems, I just give up. AND whats with the 95% consultation result being disregarded?!? Someone ought to be hung up, drawn, and quartered.
Sir_Dave said:
From my experience, it appears that the NSL gantries never have cameras on, but the ones at 40mph, completely randomly amongst all the other NSL ones, at 11pm, on a Wednesday evening, with no traffic to be seen for miles, always have active cameras.
I pity the person who failed to notice the Hadecs on the 40mph sign on the M6 a few weeks back. Waze was going bonkers so i slowed from 70 to 40, but he carried on at 70+ and the sky lit up like Guy Fawkes night
Some of the ones on the M25 definitely work even at NSL.I pity the person who failed to notice the Hadecs on the 40mph sign on the M6 a few weeks back. Waze was going bonkers so i slowed from 70 to 40, but he carried on at 70+ and the sky lit up like Guy Fawkes night
Merry said:
spikyone said:
Twice I came across sets of gantries showing 60,40,40,NSL, with no good reason for either set of restrictions.
Totally agree with all the points to you make, but I'd always assumed when this happened its the controller seeking to limit the impact of a brake ripple causing a tailback, therefore keeping traffic moving (albeit at a slower pace). Whether it works or not is another matter! A lot of the 'no good reason' restrictions to 40 you will probably notice occur around a junction, with a queue on a slip road (albeit might even be quite a small queue). So it might seem like no good reason, but is to avoid that hero driver who cuts in from the outside lane on to the slip road at 70mph at the last minute only to find the traffic backed up (this is a particularly problem when the queue is alongside the main carriageway and people often stop in lane 1 waiting for a space to cut in). Both examples, less likely to be an accident at 40.
That's not to say some of the restrictions are quite mystifying and I can't explain them, but the majority have a genuine reason. And the majority of drivers don't drive like muppets, but some of the restrictions are there because of the minority that do.
I speak as someone who works for the M25 (not Highways England), so have limited insight in to the the operations of other motorways, particularly the 50mph restrictions on the M1 highlighted in the original article which do sound a little frustrating...
Sir_Dave said:
RobGT81 said:
NSL-50-40-NSL-40-60-50-NSL-30-60-40-NSL
From my experience, it appears that the NSL gantries never have cameras on, but the ones at 40mph, completely randomly amongst all the other NSL ones, at 11pm, on a Wednesday evening, with no traffic to be seen for miles, always have active cameras.I pity the person who failed to notice the Hadecs on the 40mph sign on the M6 a few weeks back. Waze was going bonkers so i slowed from 70 to 40, but he carried on at 70+ and the sky lit up like Guy Fawkes night
The cameras at the side of the gantry (or on separate posts) are always active. When they were installed on the M25 Northern section they flashed at anything over 70 to let people know they were there before their tolerance was increased. I wouldn't pass them at anything more than (an indicated) 75 though.
sonnenschein3000 said:
Its because leftie Britain wants to control its people - not for any particular reason, but for the need to control and to dictate as much as possible.
Its a game ofcorbyn simon says on the motorway with £100/3pts every time you slip up. A sadistic game, being played by those who could not dream of getting a decent job in the real (i.e. private sector) world.
You know it's a right wing (centre-right) government don't you, has been for some time.Its a game of
And Corbyn has no control at all over the motorways, police or points on your licence.
Or were you being provocative for effect?
Hackney said:
funkyrobot said:
All of you moaning about people slamming on the brakes should leave more of a gap between you and the vehicle in front.
...into which someone will inevitably swerve (then indicate, if at all) despite the "congestion stay in lane) signs.I did some big motorway mileage a few weeks ago for holiday purposes. I have never seen so much tailgating. People simply do not leave each other enough room. It's no wonder a change of speed limit annoys so many people.
There's two stories / points here:
1. Variable speed limits / managed motorways in general
2. 50mph permanent variable limit on the M1
Managed motorways it appears are sadly here to stay, but the interesting point here and question for the Highways Agency is why the 50mph is STILL in force for 10 miles going passed Sheffield. It's bloody infuriating at times when there is very light traffic, especially when most seem to refuse to change lane and stay in the outside at 45ish.
There are also SPECS cameras that if you look closely at the small signs are not in use but are left erected.
It's all very odd, what does the Highways Agency have to say about the 10 mile section and when will it go back to NSL?
1. Variable speed limits / managed motorways in general
2. 50mph permanent variable limit on the M1
Managed motorways it appears are sadly here to stay, but the interesting point here and question for the Highways Agency is why the 50mph is STILL in force for 10 miles going passed Sheffield. It's bloody infuriating at times when there is very light traffic, especially when most seem to refuse to change lane and stay in the outside at 45ish.
There are also SPECS cameras that if you look closely at the small signs are not in use but are left erected.
It's all very odd, what does the Highways Agency have to say about the 10 mile section and when will it go back to NSL?
sonnenschein3000 said:
Its because leftie Britain wants to control its people - not for any particular reason, but for the need to control and to dictate as much as possible.
Its a game ofcorbyn simon says on the motorway with £100/3pts every time you slip up. A sadistic game, being played by those who could not dream of getting a decent job in the real (i.e. private sector) world.
That is the usual load of bIts a game of
ks trotted out by people who are convinced 'the system' is against them. Along with 'arbitrary number on a sign'.I've read similar before on here by a chap who had been caught speeding again and was due to hit 12 points and maybe a ban. The system was quite clearly against him and it wasn't his fault at all.
DiscoColin said:
There is simply no justification for all of this 50mph/variable limit rubbish except where either there actually are people in the process of conducting road works or the traffic really is heading into a block of stationary traffic in a proper old fashioned jam. Almost never the case. It is ridiculous.
The idea being that by reducing the flow early, it avoid the slow down becoming a proper old fashioned jam, which as you say, is almost never the case, so it could be working? 
All of the Highways England (now Traffic England) data is available here:
www.trafficengland.com
You can see the flow data they're working with, sign information etc, and you can actually subscribe to have this data sent to you every minute if you get really bored!
Speaking as someone not quite fully on the other side, but who works for a company that produces the traffic monitoring equipment and the software to distribute and analyse the data, I've got a reasonable insight into how the stuff works, and would be happy to answer some questions Dan.
There's actually the traffic industry's main UK exhibition (I know, exciting...) next week at the NEC (Traffex, it's free entry), if you want to come over to our stand on Wednesday I'll be there and could happily show you around the software, including showing you the Highways England data they have that the signs are working based on etc. it's not quite the control centre but it's the same source data and probably easier to organise...
I just cannot see the point in them. The amount of money spent on them could of been put towards our crumbling road network, a more worthy cause. All we have had in Manchester for the last 2 years is misery while the smart network is installed. We basically have rush hour all day every day, with armaggdon at traditional rush hour times. This work will not be completed until 2019. And for what? A system that won't be used correctly. It's not going to get anyone anywhere any faster. I've driven through other networks and it's ridiculous, speed up, slow down, use hard shoulder don't!! In fact, don't even get me started on the hard shoulder. It's a severe accident waiting to happen, or a severe accident that doesn't get attended by the emergency services.
If, and this is a big if, the system was run correctly with an increased speed limit to match the current machinery on our roads I think it would work. When it's quiet 80? 90? 100? And if you get caught speeding that's your risk and you should be heavily penalised. Speed reduction on certain stretches of motorway that are dangerous, junctions, where motorways merge, tight corners etc is an obvious cheap no brainer. (Wonder where they do that?) Why dig up the whole bloody network at the cost of billions to achieve something a few signs could sort!
Breathe......
I do around 5000 miles a year, as I work from home. God knows how commuters and reps feel. Flying cars can't come soon enough.
If, and this is a big if, the system was run correctly with an increased speed limit to match the current machinery on our roads I think it would work. When it's quiet 80? 90? 100? And if you get caught speeding that's your risk and you should be heavily penalised. Speed reduction on certain stretches of motorway that are dangerous, junctions, where motorways merge, tight corners etc is an obvious cheap no brainer. (Wonder where they do that?) Why dig up the whole bloody network at the cost of billions to achieve something a few signs could sort!
Breathe......
I do around 5000 miles a year, as I work from home. God knows how commuters and reps feel. Flying cars can't come soon enough.
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