RE: 50 limits by the back door: PH Blog
Discussion
Mandown46 said:
Terminator X said:
The one that gets me is slow down as rogue vehicle coming towards you! Not seen one ever surprise, surprise!
TX.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-37834668TX.
You should thank your lucky stars for that.
Again, much like animals and pedestrians, those signs will be set because someone has called in a report of a vehicle going the wrong way. 9/10 it will be someone who has, somehow, cocked up a slip road or services and started to join the wrong way, figured it out and turned themselves back around.
The signs are put on both sides in the area that the report has come in on, and cannot be cleared until the Police have checked the area. Now, I'm sure you all realise how few Traffic Police are left, so it can often be a good while until they get there and check.
TX.
Contrary to some people's thoughts I do have an honours degree which did involve some highway engineering so am not a total wingeing moron.
Would it not be sensible to give good documentary coverage on TV covering all the issues that we are all ranting about and totally sick of. We are all experts in our own fields and as such are nothing special but we cannot hope to know everything about everything.
Documentary coverage covering true facts and figures may educate drivers and teach us a lot about what is going on so that we do not feel frustrated and under big brothers thumb.
Would it not be sensible to give good documentary coverage on TV covering all the issues that we are all ranting about and totally sick of. We are all experts in our own fields and as such are nothing special but we cannot hope to know everything about everything.
Documentary coverage covering true facts and figures may educate drivers and teach us a lot about what is going on so that we do not feel frustrated and under big brothers thumb.
Terminator X said:
The point is though historically no big deal generally as you just ignore and carry on, now though we have hadecs watching us 24/7 so are forced to slow down even though we know it is gobbledegook.
Re your point in bold, rarely if ever do I see the supposed "danger"; we can't all be lying or indeed unlucky!
TX.
But you don't know that it is gobbledegook. You think it is based on your previous experience and that of vocal peers who share your opinion.Re your point in bold, rarely if ever do I see the supposed "danger"; we can't all be lying or indeed unlucky!
TX.
But you don't know. Just because you've been proven right numerous times in the past, doesn't mean you know the next time. Not 100%. Your argument is like saying just because I've cut a blind corner every day for years, I know there's nothing coming...
And the fact is, if there weren't warnings about debris and animals and oncoming cars, and that one in a million time there was, but the call had been ignored from one or more members of the public that someone was going the wrong way down the motorway, or even worse, a cute little labrador puppy was frolicking on the M25, you can bet the entire country, led by the Daily Mail, would absolutely s
t the bed about it.Is it not apparent that weighing in to arguments about nearly 30 million vehicles that covers however many million miles a day on these networks with arguments based only on your personal experience is possibly not the most convincing counter point?
A poster earlier asserted that when the road he travelled on was reduced to 50 the traffic flow was reduced. Based on what? The fact that his one journey took him longer than he thinks it would have done if he'd been allowed to do 70? Whatever we do, let's not base it on the actual numbers of vehicles measured as having flowed through the section of road compared to at previous times.
It's very easy and I'm sure very comforting to assume everyone in the whole industry is a moron, and / or has some sort of anti-car agenda, but please try to consider the possibility things are maybe just ever so slightly more complicated than they appear from your 5m long box on the M25.
Just to ensure it's clear, I don't work for Highways England, I have absolutely no input or control whatsoever on any trunk road in the entire country, I have no input or say in how any of it works and don't know any of the people in that part of the industry personally. I have absolutely no vested interest in defending Highways England, but I do work in the traffic monitoring industry, and from that position am able to grasp the sort of factors that are at play, especially given the additional insights provided by mandown and others.
The idea that it's all so logical and obvious how to fix everything, and thus everyone in the industry must just be a moron, is typical pub bluster
It's happening so get used to it.
For example over the last few years throughout Sussex & Surrey many rural 60mph limited roads are now signed 50mph & as each week passes another road is added. This is irrespective of any history of speed related accidents or an increase in built-up areas.
I sense that the intention is by devious means to eventually limit ALL rural roads to 50mph or less. The long term plan is to eventually have a UK wide maximum speed limit of 50mph on all rural roads. The result is smug rich retirees pottering along at 40 or a maximum of 45mph in their new cars with nothing else to do but gawp at the scenery happy in the knowledge that at last the UK is slowing down to their 1940's pace of life.
And here's a thought, I bet a few MP's have shares, or their noses in associated fiscal troughs, of road sign manufacturers or white line paint suppliers. Perhaps their portfolio includes house building companies so no wonder our green & pleasant land is disappearing fast.
For example over the last few years throughout Sussex & Surrey many rural 60mph limited roads are now signed 50mph & as each week passes another road is added. This is irrespective of any history of speed related accidents or an increase in built-up areas.
I sense that the intention is by devious means to eventually limit ALL rural roads to 50mph or less. The long term plan is to eventually have a UK wide maximum speed limit of 50mph on all rural roads. The result is smug rich retirees pottering along at 40 or a maximum of 45mph in their new cars with nothing else to do but gawp at the scenery happy in the knowledge that at last the UK is slowing down to their 1940's pace of life.
And here's a thought, I bet a few MP's have shares, or their noses in associated fiscal troughs, of road sign manufacturers or white line paint suppliers. Perhaps their portfolio includes house building companies so no wonder our green & pleasant land is disappearing fast.
Attilauk said:
I'm not deliberately avoiding anything, you are not reading my responses properly! WE DO NOT PUT 50MPH SPEED LIMITS OUT IN ROADWORKS ON MOTORWAYS WHERE THERE IS NO RISK TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC
Is that clear enough? ...
Well noIs that clear enough? ...
There is a risk in anything , this should all be about minimising risk.
Unfortunately risk curves arent often linear they can bee U or bell shaped, which is why a speed limit thats too low can lead to increased risk ( as it can if its too high)
So youre saying you only put 50mph limits where there is risk - you could put them everywhere on that basis (as there is always some risk) and in doing so might be increasing risk.
What someone needs to say is, is a 50mph limit here overall increasing or reducing the risk.
Edited by saaby93 on Friday 31st March 22:13
I live locally and have driven this section for the first time since it was completed just the other day.
Who knows if i was going the right speed at the right time.
It was national limit, then down to 60 for no apparent reason, then next single over head sign said 40 despite the road been empty, then just after m18 slip road going south everyone was doing national speed, i left at that exit, there was a speed camera on the slip road.
fk knows what speed i was supposed to be doing, i was doing 60.
Baffling.
Who knows if i was going the right speed at the right time.
It was national limit, then down to 60 for no apparent reason, then next single over head sign said 40 despite the road been empty, then just after m18 slip road going south everyone was doing national speed, i left at that exit, there was a speed camera on the slip road.
f
k knows what speed i was supposed to be doing, i was doing 60.Baffling.
funkyrobot said:
Hackney said:
funkyrobot said:
All of you moaning about people slamming on the brakes should leave more of a gap between you and the vehicle in front.
...into which someone will inevitably swerve (then indicate, if at all) despite the "congestion stay in lane) signs.<snip>
The result is everyone behind you having to either slow down or change lanes.
That may be a somewhat simplistic way of putting things, but no more so than yours.
Mandown46 said:
If you are saying you are continually seeing debris signs, and no debris, you're either lying, missing the debris in the road, or are the worlds unluckiest driver.
I've seen it many times.May I suggest that instead of just displaying "Debris in road" with a big 50 up, which does little more than causing the traffic to bunch up and reduce your chances of actually seeing the debris, that they actually put up useful information such as, "Debris in L2"
fuelracer496 said:
Mathematically, a barrier could restrain a car at a higher test speed, but the systems in use, the standards in use and the roads in use, were designed for 70mph and so approvals for use would be null and void (these things come with a warranty, just like the computer people angrily type away on, on t'interweb). At a time where the industry is under constant scrutiny and criticism from the general public in terms of spending, we aren't afforded the luxury of being able to upgrade the network to future proof it for a higher speed limit.
At the risk of stating the obvious, a large proportion of car traffic already does regularly travel at speeds of 80-90mph, and has done so for decades, with little or no evidence of 'crossover carnage'The tests may only be approved for cars up to 70mph, but the fact is that if the barriers can physically withstand heavy vehicle impacts then they can certainly withstand car impacts at much higher speeds than 70mph.
The point is, simply changing the test criteria would likely 'future proof the system' in the vast majority of cases without having to dig the whole thing up
Edited by Engineer792 on Saturday 1st April 11:55
Mandown46 said:
Terminator X said:
I guess it's good to know they have the signage for it but why use it regularly (yes I have seen it a number of times) when there is no danger or the danger has passed; just use cctv ffs to see where the wrong way car is? I appreciate what you are saying is that it takes time to clear the signage but it can't be the case that there is regularly people driving the wrong way; imho they use it late at night to test the system. If I had confidence that the signage is correct I'd slow down however I don't albeit now I still have to slow because of hadecs eyes in the sky.
TX.
Camera's are checked as soon as the report comes in.TX.
Bear in mind though, that a lot of stretches don't have very good coverage, and that there often isn't that many operators available to check especially as most of these happen at night when there is less staff, but still a lot of work to be done.
Most of the time, once cameras have been checked and no other calls are coming in, its a good chance that there isn't any danger. But would you want to be the one that tells the police not to bother, clears the signs then hears later about the 140mph crash because it was in fact in an area with no cameras?
It has to be checked on the ground, yes its time consuming but there's no other way to be 100% sure the danger has passed.
Chris 996 - there has been one documentary a few years ago, I forget exactly what its called, there is also another series thats current. A lot of the things spoken about here are covered, I think its called Life in The Fast Lane, or something like that.
ETA: Besides which, in the case of a 'wrong way vehicle' I would expect a far more rigorous response than to just display a warning.
Edited by Engineer792 on Saturday 1st April 12:11
Engineer792 said:
I've seen it many times.
May I suggest that instead of just displaying "Debris in road" with a big 50 up, which does little more than causing the traffic to bunch up and reduce your chances of actually seeing the debris, that they actually put up useful information such as, "Debris in L2"
May I suggest that suggestion is rather silly. Debris in L2 being clobbered by high-speed traffic could easily end up in a different lane and then back again and/or broken up where it's suddenly across all lanes. So telling one lane to watch out or slow down while the other lanes carry on at speed is just crackers.May I suggest that instead of just displaying "Debris in road" with a big 50 up, which does little more than causing the traffic to bunch up and reduce your chances of actually seeing the debris, that they actually put up useful information such as, "Debris in L2"
Debris in road tells 'everyone' to display caution, for obvious (to most) reasons.
Engineer792 said:
I've seen it many times.
May I suggest that instead of just displaying "Debris in road" with a big 50 up, which does little more than causing the traffic to bunch up and reduce your chances of actually seeing the debris, that they actually put up useful information such as, "Debris in L2"
Hahahahaha May I suggest that instead of just displaying "Debris in road" with a big 50 up, which does little more than causing the traffic to bunch up and reduce your chances of actually seeing the debris, that they actually put up useful information such as, "Debris in L2"
You were joking right?
fuelracer496 said:
Hopefully an expert will be along shortly with the answer to all the problems, that allows a motoring utopia for the road user. I can only assume a solution exists in the mind of someone who doesn't work in highway maintenance, because those of us that do, have already explained the obstacles, issues, regulations, standards etc several times, but it falls on deaf ears and we're deemed to be doing a crap job.
If someone can explain how you create a motoring utopia when you take account the following points, I'm sure Highways England would greet it with open arms, and perhaps give them a job in their technical policy team, normally reserved for those with technical knowledge about the subject and standards that have to be adhered to (because unfortunately, it's not as simple as re-paving someone's driveway):
From where I sit, the solutions are just a sticky plaster over a gunshot wound.If someone can explain how you create a motoring utopia when you take account the following points, I'm sure Highways England would greet it with open arms, and perhaps give them a job in their technical policy team, normally reserved for those with technical knowledge about the subject and standards that have to be adhered to (because unfortunately, it's not as simple as re-paving someone's driveway):
- We are not widening motorways.
- We are not increasing the motorway speed limit.
- We are not building new motorways.
- The spending budget caters for maintaining existing assets, not building new ones. Assets are maintained based on condition, service life and risk to the customer from defects and failures.
- Smart motorways are a way of increasing throughput within the existing available carriageway width because of the points I've raised above.
- Road users are increasingly critical of road works - the customer wants a first class road network but complains that road works are required to provide it.
You say very definitely that you're not doing several things that really should be done.
Infrastructure is vital and if that infrastructure, or assets as you refer to them, aren't improved, updated upon and increased then the country will continue to decline.
To address the questions about why the 50 limits are in place even when motorways aren't being worked on at evenings and weekends well my question is why can't those roads be worked on over weekends and evenings. There are plenty of countries around the world where roadworks of major routes (and some less major) are done 24/7 until complete.
Mandown46 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershir...
You should thank your lucky stars for that.
Again, much like animals and pedestrians, those signs will be set because someone has called in a report of a vehicle going the wrong way. 9/10 it will be someone who has, somehow, cocked up a slip road or services and started to join the wrong way, figured it out and turned themselves back around.
The signs are put on both sides in the area that the report has come in on, and cannot be cleared until the Police have checked the area. Now, I'm sure you all realise how few Traffic Police are left, so it can often be a good while until they get there and check.
Again, how can that be an acceptable response to the situation? I don't get it.You should thank your lucky stars for that.
Again, much like animals and pedestrians, those signs will be set because someone has called in a report of a vehicle going the wrong way. 9/10 it will be someone who has, somehow, cocked up a slip road or services and started to join the wrong way, figured it out and turned themselves back around.
The signs are put on both sides in the area that the report has come in on, and cannot be cleared until the Police have checked the area. Now, I'm sure you all realise how few Traffic Police are left, so it can often be a good while until they get there and check.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff