Traffic Lights could save fuel, but they don't

[Alex_225]

Set of lights on the A23 half a mile or so before you can join the M23 (Hooley).

Dual carriageway but limited to 40mph. You'll be approaching the lights, they change to red then before you get a chance to come to a stop they change to green again. This can happen at 5am when there is no traffic and they don't change long enough for the other lights to change to allow cars from a side road so I can't see the function at all other than hindering progress.

[Richard-390a0]

swerni said:

If you flash at them, they go green

Really

Still a bit chilly for public nudity imho!

[shakotan]

NickCQ said:

sparks_E39 said:

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

One of the reasons I love driving in America is the turn right on red policy. Their roads just work much better.

I imagine with the relatively higher number of cyclists we have on our roads (and bike lanes along the left hand side of the road), you'd get a lot more 'squashing' events if we had right turns on red lights.

More likely that the Government realises that a vast majority of people that use the roads are fking morons, therefore wouldn't understand how it works.

Oh, and if we had right turns on red, you'd end up with much worse than a squashed cyclist.

[Moonhawk]

Yep - happened to me last night.

Went to see Russel Howard at the Echo Arena in Liverpool. Traffic was pretty heavy coming home - yet this set of lights servicing a minor side road turned red, stopping 3 full lanes of traffic despite there being absolutely nothing in the side road.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4095245,-2.99734...

Would it really be too much trouble to make junctions like this sensor controlled in order to keep the main carriageway flowing when there is no traffic waiting on the side road.

Traffic lights on roundabouts also annoy me. Fine have them at busy times to control traffic flow, but they should be turned off at less busy times, especially during the early hours.

[Decky_Q]

There are three 4 ways in a row along this main route, all timed to go red as you approach. In the evenings I usually go left (which is green) then go across the empty lanes and turn back onto the main road. (both left and right turns along here are shopping centres closed in the evening)

Anybody care to tell me if this is illegal or legal? all routes taken are green and permitted normally but will I get a tug if BiB see me obviously avoiding the red traffic light on my route?

[Sheepshanks]

sparks_E39 said:

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

One of the reasons I love driving in America is the turn right on red policy. Their roads just work much better.

Remember to stop at the red first though, don't treat it like a give-way.

The Conservatives said they were going to introduce it here, but the idea seems to have died a death.

The other thing in the US is lights on main roads usually stay on green for longer - see a green light in the distance and you'll probably get through. Here you generally won't.

[mcg_]

A well set up junction can work very well. Unfortunately a lot of junctions go in and then aren't re validated as the years go by to take account of changing traffic flows.

Traffic signals now can be very intelligent, it's just got complicated to set them up. It's also incredible expensive to replace/upgrade/modernise traffic signal junctions.

Perhaps if they weren't run by the local authorities it might be a different situation.......

[parabolica]

Jonno02 said:

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

In Florida, it's so nice being able to turn right on a red. Definitely something the yanks have right. That and car parking spaces where you can open your doors without dinging another car.

And usually you don't have to pay for parking.

On the other side of things, I spent 1.5 years living in East Africa where traffic lights were non-existent and the traffic was continually horrendous due to gridlock - a 10 mile journey once took me 10 hours to complete (I was in a staff bus and due to security we were not permitted to get out/walk/get to our destination by another means). Put a new perspective on things for me.

[sparks_E39]

shakotan said:

NickCQ said:

sparks_E39 said:

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

One of the reasons I love driving in America is the turn right on red policy. Their roads just work much better.

I imagine with the relatively higher number of cyclists we have on our roads (and bike lanes along the left hand side of the road), you'd get a lot more 'squashing' events if we had right turns on red lights.

More likely that the Government realises that a vast majority of people that use the roads are fking morons, therefore wouldn't understand how it works.

Oh, and if we had right turns on red, you'd end up with much worse than a squashed cyclist.

Just to clarify I did not imply we implement the turn right on red rule here!

[nish81]

parabolica said:

And usually you don't have to pay for parking.

On the other side of things, I spent 1.5 years living in East Africa where traffic lights were non-existent and the traffic was continually horrendous due to gridlock - a 10 mile journey once took me 10 hours to complete (I was in a staff bus and due to security we were not permitted to get out/walk/get to our destination by another means). Put a new perspective on things for me.

I grew up in east africa and drove there a lot. It's not all bad. Plus points:
- if you choose your work and residential areas right then you can avoid rush hour as, at least where i grew up, most of the time was on a few particular choke points and the rest was traffic free

- no speed cameras, the police don't even have cars most of the time, no radar detectors, you can drive as fast as is safe for the road condition

- red lights were basically optional between 12am-5am where I was

[V10Ace]

If no-one is around, I just roll straight through...

Especially temporary lights...

[vikingaero]

sparks_E39 said:

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

One of the reasons I love driving in America is the turn right on red policy. Their roads just work much better.

20 years ago this would have worked. The only people that drove badly were Barry Boys and Chavs.

Now half of every sector of the population drives like Chavs - upper, middle, working, underclass. They don't give a fk about you, they don't give a fk about me, all they give a fk about is themselves, so no way would they give way to pedestrians on turn lefts.

[Matthen]

SonicShadow said:

Conscript said:

If ever we perfect artificial intelligence, I hope one of the first widespread uses for it is traffic lights. Imagine a set of lights which could replicate a human traffic policeman and could control the flow of traffic based on the number, speed and the type of vehicles approaching the junction.

That can be done now. Artificial Intelligence is not required just a well thought out algorithm. Unfortunately improving traffic flow is not the only purpose of traffic lights as others have pointed out.

Yes, TFL has a super computer using machine learning to optimise traffic flow. It's programmed to prioritise bikes and buses. Is this what you want everywhere?

Engineering out traffic lights should be the aim, not increasing there ability to wind up car drivers.

[MattyB_]

Leptons said:

We should be able to turn left on a red. Unfortunately it'll never happen because the government want us to be a nation of brainwashed, robot, worker ants.

I agree - I don't understand why this is never integrated. I guess it's a 'safety' thing, because THIS:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5869156,-2.01064...

Really gets my goat. Filter lanes, that are "Give way" but also have traffic lights. I've sat there before, with very little traffic, waiting for the lights to change, and it's completely pointless. Does my nut - there are quite a few setups like this.

[Sheepshanks]

V10Ace said:

If no-one is around, I just roll straight through...

Especially temporary lights...

There's a left turn slip where I often did that - it's off a main road into a T junction so when the lights are red no-one could be turning into the T from either side. Buggers have put a camera on it now.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Saturday 1st April 12:49

[bristolracer]

Problem with holding traffic at lights is that it creates pollution hot spots.
This will really confuse the idiots at the council house, who are hell bent on making your journey as inconvenient as possible and will now get hit with a fine for polluted air.

[Jagmanv12]

bristolracer said:

Problem with holding traffic at lights is that it creates pollution hot spots.
This will really confuse the idiots at the council house, who are hell bent on making your journey as inconvenient as possible and will now get hit with a fine for polluted air.

Exactly. It should be pointed out to the councils/tfl/DOT that holding up traffic causes pollution. Traffic should be free-flowing and any obstructions should modified or removed.

If the authorities were genuine about reducing pollution they would do something about the obstructions.

[vikingaero]

Jagmanv12 said:

bristolracer said:

Problem with holding traffic at lights is that it creates pollution hot spots.
This will really confuse the idiots at the council house, who are hell bent on making your journey as inconvenient as possible and will now get hit with a fine for polluted air.

Exactly. It should be pointed out to the councils/tfl/DOT that holding up traffic causes pollution. Traffic should be free-flowing and any obstructions should modified or removed.

If the authorities were genuine about reducing pollution they would do something about the obstructions.

They are. They are installing more traffic lights and calming to discourage YOU from driving so THEY can drive in more freely...

[Conscript]

Matthen said:

SonicShadow said:

Conscript said:

If ever we perfect artificial intelligence, I hope one of the first widespread uses for it is traffic lights. Imagine a set of lights which could replicate a human traffic policeman and could control the flow of traffic based on the number, speed and the type of vehicles approaching the junction.

That can be done now. Artificial Intelligence is not required just a well thought out algorithm. Unfortunately improving traffic flow is not the only purpose of traffic lights as others have pointed out.

Yes, TFL has a super computer using machine learning to optimise traffic flow. It's programmed to prioritise bikes and buses. Is this what you want everywhere?

Engineering out traffic lights should be the aim, not increasing there ability to wind up car drivers.

I'm not talking about prioritising vehicles per sé, but merely making a decision based on their approach in order to increase efficiency, as per the original thread title. I don't mean I expect to lights to instantly turn green if they approach. Just to take their approach into account when deciding how long to hold a green signal to save them having to come to stop, then have to get going again with all the fuel usage, noise and emissions that getting a big vehicle up to speed entails

Personally, I think I'd get more annoyed being forced to accelerate back up to speed achingly slowly because I am behind a lorry that was forced to stop for a light which changed to red just as it approached, than I would waiting on an opposing junction a couple of seconds more to allow said lorry to keep rolling.

I agree with your last point though, ideally we should aim to do away with traffic lights where possible

MattyB_ said:

I agree - I don't understand why this is never integrated. I guess it's a 'safety' thing, because THIS:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5869156,-2.01064...

Really gets my goat. Filter lanes, that are "Give way" but also have traffic lights. I've sat there before, with very little traffic, waiting for the lights to change, and it's completely pointless. Does my nut - there are quite a few setups like this.

My guess is it's because at a lot of junctions in the UK, the left-most lane is for traffic that's both turning left and going straight on.
Imagine 10 cars in such a lane - 9 of them wanting to turn left, but they cant because the 10th car wants to go straight on, and he's at the head of the queue waiting on the red light
Whereas in the US, at most junctions I encountered, the right-most lane was for right turns only - so you'd never get held up by someone going straight on.

It would be a good rule to implement wherever possible, but when it's not due to the above scenario, I think it might lead to more driver frustration. Hence why I mentioned junction amendments.

[dazwalsh]

There is a right tt of a traffic light where I live, out of rush hour its always on green, until you get close to it and it turns red, you slow, and slow further waiting for it to turn green again and every single time without fail, will only turn green when your at a virtual standstill.