RE: Saab 9-3 HOT | Shed of the Week
Discussion
Headgaskets hold up fine. It uses the same format for the cylinder block of a sealed deck that's found on the Mercedes A45 which is the most powerful 4-cylinder engine any manufacturer has ever put in a road car. i.e. there's a certain recipe to follow to create an engine that's good on boost and the old Saab lump ticks many of the boxes.
ingenieur said:
The only comment I'm making is regarding the strength of that bottom end in the Saab B204. It is legendary. Like I said in my first comment, I don't know how well the rest of the car would hold up.
Here's some evidence to back up what I'm saying... it's always better if you have some evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOozWy5C3IM
700hp.
In the comments section the owner describes the use he has got out of the standard engine internals. No relation to any of this but was easy to find.
Q. "How long have those stock t5 pistons and rods been run for? Any reliability issues at that high of power? What cams did you run on this setup?"
A. "Total of like old 150000km old rods and pistons that I put another 50000km on through various power levels. 250hp, 320+hp, 430hp, 700+hp. They work for a lot of power, no real major reliablility issues upwards 700+hp in terms of power, but they can cause quite a bit of scuffing at like 7000+rpm due to the nature of the T5 piston design and with slightly worn bores. I ran it at 700hp for like 3 months and daily driving it beating on it every day."
Stock pistons and rods probably still means the whole engine has been apart, machined, new gaskets, bearings etc etc. Not just a cheap turbo kit slapped on.Here's some evidence to back up what I'm saying... it's always better if you have some evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOozWy5C3IM
700hp.
In the comments section the owner describes the use he has got out of the standard engine internals. No relation to any of this but was easy to find.
Q. "How long have those stock t5 pistons and rods been run for? Any reliability issues at that high of power? What cams did you run on this setup?"
A. "Total of like old 150000km old rods and pistons that I put another 50000km on through various power levels. 250hp, 320+hp, 430hp, 700+hp. They work for a lot of power, no real major reliablility issues upwards 700+hp in terms of power, but they can cause quite a bit of scuffing at like 7000+rpm due to the nature of the T5 piston design and with slightly worn bores. I ran it at 700hp for like 3 months and daily driving it beating on it every day."
And did you notice this comment:
"This has been a project going on for several years in various setups. It has cost me roughly about ~300k swedish krona so far which is close to 34k US dollars."
I love all this talk of making it 700bhp and it would cope fine 
Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp, plus maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp, plus maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
Edited by waynecyclist on Saturday 15th January 09:40
yeah it's a different level of spending to get it to a 700hp level. I was only talking about bolting on a different turbo and going for a hack.
I'll admit I know a thing or two about Saabs having owned and modified lots of them.
One of my old 900s had a hybrid turbo on it. Then I welded the wastegate shut. Otherwise totally standard. Kept going for ages and I still have the engine sitting in one of my workshops, it was running fine when I removed it. Didn't blow the head gasket, didn't snap any rods or hole any pistons, just kept going.
I've also put nitrous onto a non-turbo 900 and that held together reasonably well despite power and torque doubling in the 400rpm after the nitrous was engaged. I'd be willing to bet you can't do that with every engine and expect it to survive.
I'll admit I know a thing or two about Saabs having owned and modified lots of them.
One of my old 900s had a hybrid turbo on it. Then I welded the wastegate shut. Otherwise totally standard. Kept going for ages and I still have the engine sitting in one of my workshops, it was running fine when I removed it. Didn't blow the head gasket, didn't snap any rods or hole any pistons, just kept going.
I've also put nitrous onto a non-turbo 900 and that held together reasonably well despite power and torque doubling in the 400rpm after the nitrous was engaged. I'd be willing to bet you can't do that with every engine and expect it to survive.
Nice, haven't driven this gen 9-3 but always heard they were a bit wallowy.
Still running my 9-5 Aero (for 6 years now). Aside from regular maintenance it hasn't cost me any extra pennies. Ticked over 155k this week. Still love that old bus, every time I think I'm bored of it it seems to remind me how quiet, comfy and effortless it is to drive.
Still running my 9-5 Aero (for 6 years now). Aside from regular maintenance it hasn't cost me any extra pennies. Ticked over 155k this week. Still love that old bus, every time I think I'm bored of it it seems to remind me how quiet, comfy and effortless it is to drive.
waynecyclist said:
I love all this talk of making it 700bhp and it would cope fine
Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp plus this maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
+1Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp plus this maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
I think given the demand for secondhand cars and inflation, it's time that the Shed budget was upped by another £500 - £1,000.
ingenieur said:
yeah it's a different level of spending to get it to a 700hp level. I was only talking about bolting on a different turbo and going for a hack.
I'll admit I know a thing or two about Saabs having owned and modified lots of them.
One of my old 900s had a hybrid turbo on it. Then I welded the wastegate shut. Otherwise totally standard. Kept going for ages and I still have the engine sitting in one of my workshops, it was running fine when I removed it. Didn't blow the head gasket, didn't snap any rods or hole any pistons, just kept going.
I've also put nitrous onto a non-turbo 900 and that held together reasonably well despite power and torque doubling in the 400rpm after the nitrous was engaged. I'd be willing to bet you can't do that with every engine and expect it to survive.
well played sirI'll admit I know a thing or two about Saabs having owned and modified lots of them.
One of my old 900s had a hybrid turbo on it. Then I welded the wastegate shut. Otherwise totally standard. Kept going for ages and I still have the engine sitting in one of my workshops, it was running fine when I removed it. Didn't blow the head gasket, didn't snap any rods or hole any pistons, just kept going.
I've also put nitrous onto a non-turbo 900 and that held together reasonably well despite power and torque doubling in the 400rpm after the nitrous was engaged. I'd be willing to bet you can't do that with every engine and expect it to survive.
Fresh Prince said:
benzinbob said:
ducnick said:
benzinbob said:
Another Friday, and if it’s not a Volvo it’s a Saab. Really do not understand the fascination with the crusty old things..
I was like you. Didn't understand why anyone would want a crusty old SAAB or Volvo. So I ended up buying a crusty old SAAB and a crusty old Volvo to see what all the fuss was about. I kept the SAAB for 3 yrs and the Volvo for 11 yrs. I would say without any doubt that when limited to the sub £3000 bracket, the Volvos are better put together than the SAAB's.
They get under your skin and once you have tried not a care in the world, reliable, comfortable, Swedish shed motoring, its hard to go back to spending a fortune on cars that serve the same purpose, but crucially, depreciate and are often less reliable. Not caring if you curb the wheels, use the bumpers or bash the door on something is such a freedom and opens your mind to new motoring possibilities. I can go on a boozy night out and drive there in my shed, leave it in the roughest part of town and I don't have to worry that it may go missing overnight. I can squeeze into the tightest of spaces between two builders vans and not worry that a transit door will chip my paint etc. Swedish sheds are automotive nirvana.
ballans said:
I had one of these from new when I was going through my Saab phase (5 in a row). A 3 door, silver , velour seats. Mmmmm, I miss velour.
Can’t disagree with any of the handling & chassis comments. could definitely be a handful. Better than the previous same shape 900. Was a lot of fun though and mid range whoosh was very addictive.
This one is definitely a HOT. From memory you could have it with any trim level - basic, S, SE and Aero. 3 door, 5 door and convertible. Engines were 2.0 NA, LPT 150bhp, HPT 185 and HOT 200Bhp. Later there was the Vigen which I think was 230bhp. I think there was 2.3 NA but most people avoided that as it was terrible.
Wasn’t this still on the cavalier chassis and the vectra
Chassis didn’t get used until the final shape 93?
Whatever, if you’ve ever driven a vectra or Saab back to back they don’t feel anything alike.
Can’t disagree with any of the handling & chassis comments. could definitely be a handful. Better than the previous same shape 900. Was a lot of fun though and mid range whoosh was very addictive.
This one is definitely a HOT. From memory you could have it with any trim level - basic, S, SE and Aero. 3 door, 5 door and convertible. Engines were 2.0 NA, LPT 150bhp, HPT 185 and HOT 200Bhp. Later there was the Vigen which I think was 230bhp. I think there was 2.3 NA but most people avoided that as it was terrible.
Wasn’t this still on the cavalier chassis and the vectra
Chassis didn’t get used until the final shape 93?
Whatever, if you’ve ever driven a vectra or Saab back to back they don’t feel anything alike.
indeed the viggen was a torque steery monster... 230hp standard but rumour was it was a wee bit more... needed the rescue kit and a few other bits but it was a car of its age that was...
These are terrible, wobbly, wooden, poor riding, inconsistently built, unreliable things and I love them for being so willfully s
t at everything, even going in a straight line. All the dynamic prowess of a Cavalier but with twice the power.
They're odd, I found, in that they don't even reward very smooth driving, which can seriously flatter even the most hopeless handling car, and actually do best if you drive them with the skill, finesse, and delicacy of a 17 year old on his way to his girlfriends house on a promise.
t at everything, even going in a straight line. All the dynamic prowess of a Cavalier but with twice the power.They're odd, I found, in that they don't even reward very smooth driving, which can seriously flatter even the most hopeless handling car, and actually do best if you drive them with the skill, finesse, and delicacy of a 17 year old on his way to his girlfriends house on a promise.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 14th January 20:22
stickleback123 said:
These are terrible, wobbly, wooden, poor riding, inconsistently built, unreliable things and I love them for being so willfully st at everything, even going in a straight line. All the dynamic prowess of a Cavalier but with twice the power.
They're odd, I found, in that they don't even reward very smooth driving, which can seriously flatter even the most hopeless handling car, and actually do best if you drive them with the skill, finesse, and delicacy of a 17 year old on his way to his girlfriends house on a promise.
Nailed it. The 93 went best when you threw it at corners and let it wallow into them. That technique seemed far better than the smooth in fast out that similar fwd cars of the time responded to. t at everything, even going in a straight line. All the dynamic prowess of a Cavalier but with twice the power.They're odd, I found, in that they don't even reward very smooth driving, which can seriously flatter even the most hopeless handling car, and actually do best if you drive them with the skill, finesse, and delicacy of a 17 year old on his way to his girlfriends house on a promise.
Edited by stickleback123 on Friday 14th January 20:22
waynecyclist said:
I love all this talk of making it 700bhp and it would cope fine
Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp plus this maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
But wouldn't it be fun for a few months before it exploded? Standard chassis is woeful and struggles with 200bhp plus this maybe this engine could be made to produce that kind of power but the rest of the car would not last long and I suspect the engine would just blow itself to bits
There's something deeply hilarious about an unwisely overpowered car.
ducnick said:
benzinbob said:
Another Friday, and if it’s not a Volvo it’s a Saab. Really do not understand the fascination with the crusty old things..
I was like you. Didn't understand why anyone would want a crusty old SAAB or Volvo. So I ended up buying a crusty old SAAB and a crusty old Volvo to see what all the fuss was about. I kept the SAAB for 3 yrs and the Volvo for 11 yrs. I would say without any doubt that when limited to the sub £3000 bracket, the Volvos are better put together than the SAAB's.
They get under your skin and once you have tried not a care in the world, reliable, comfortable, Swedish shed motoring, its hard to go back to spending a fortune on cars that serve the same purpose, but crucially, depreciate and are often less reliable. Not caring if you curb the wheels, use the bumpers or bash the door on something is such a freedom and opens your mind to new motoring possibilities. I can go on a boozy night out and drive there in my shed, leave it in the roughest part of town and I don't have to worry that it may go missing overnight. I can squeeze into the tightest of spaces between two builders vans and not worry that a transit door will chip my paint etc. Swedish sheds are automotive nirvana.
ruggedscotty said:
indeed the viggen was a torque steery monster... 230hp standard but rumour was it was a wee bit more... needed the rescue kit and a few other bits but it was a car of its age that was...
Driving position in the RHD was never quite right for me too, but despite all its shortcomings, I loved it and it always felt a bit special, maybe I am easily pleased 😀
SidewaysSi said:
Turn up the boost, get it to 850 bhp or so, bolt on some dampers and new brakes and you will beat everything on a trackday. All for around £1500 all in.
Love to watch Ferrari driver's faces when you drive past them and they can't keep up with barely £2k's worth of track weapon.
is this a parody statement?Love to watch Ferrari driver's faces when you drive past them and they can't keep up with barely £2k's worth of track weapon.
850 Bhp for under 1.5k?
itcaptainslow said:
Jhonno said:
We'll start with I don't think anyone in the market for a 1.5k Shed is actually thinking it is going to drive like a new 5 series..
Unfortunately quite a few of the buyers in the market for a sub £1,500 snotter expect exactly this! One of the many reasons I hate selling cars.
The less something costs the greater the expectations.
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