Esso to start adding Ethanol to their Superunleaded!

[astonman]

Some of you who run older cars ( or motorcycles), may already be aware of the wonderful Esso Supreme 99+ unleaded ( which is ETHANOL FREE in the Midlands and South East of England).
Esso,have decided that they are not following the industry norm,and have decided apparently for no other reasons to start adding Ethanol to their Superunleaded from September 2023.
It's something they don't have to do.
Those of us ,who are aware how much better our older cars run( in some cases cars than are less than 10 years old) on this fuel are trying to get Esso to change their mind .
[e-mail]

[CraigyMc]

Arse.

[Hereward]

Here is their link:
https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels

The relevant extract:
Quote
We currently supply an ethanol-free Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded in some parts of the UK. From September 2023 our Synergy Supreme+ 99 will transition to contain up to a maximum of 5% ethanol at all Esso pumps irrespective of which part of the country they are located.
The labelling at our pumps will remain as E5 for Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded
Unquote

[GT9]

CraigyMc said:

Arse.

My thoughts too.

[rigga]

I've emailed expressing my thoughts, on its own won't do anything, and even if lots of users of their fuel do the same, still might not change anything, but if you do nothing, expect nothing.

[Conscript]

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

[CraigyMc]

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.

"Doesn't this mean the only place that sells ethanol free petrol is going to stop doing so?"
yes.

"is ethanol crap for storage due to its absorption of water"
yes.

"is that why it's a big deal to you?"
yes.

Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 20th June 12:24

[Hereward]

rigga said:

I've emailed expressing my thoughts, on its own won't do anything, and even if lots of users of their fuel do the same, still might not change anything, but if you do nothing, expect nothing.

My sentiments too. Will be interesting to see if my email is replied to (other than the already received automated response).

[Conscript]

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.

"Doesn't this mean the only place that sells ethanol free petrol is going to stop doing so?"
yes.

"is ethanol crap for storage due to its absorption of water"
yes.

"is that why it's a big deal to you?"
yes.

Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 20th June 12:24

Another example of why I frequent these forums less and less these days. Politely post a genuine question, to be met with condescension. You even went as far as editing your initial response to make it more so :/

My post wasn't so much "it's not a big deal, get over it", but more questioning the OP's point that this wasn't the industry norm. As far as I know, Esso were the only supplier providing entirely ethanol free fuel, and even then, only in certain areas. My point being, that there must surely be a huge amount of people for which any form of ethanol content is a concern, and who already wont have access to anything other than E5...so how do they currently deal with that? I presume your only option will be fuel additives? I wasn't trying to brush this off as a non-issue.

For what it's worth, I'm well aware how desirable ethanol free fuel is, even with a new car. My previous car had a noisy, chattering high-pressure fuel pump, and only when the car was fuelled with Esso premium did it go away.

Edited by Conscript on Tuesday 20th June 12:45

[BlueStreak]

I’m sure I saw something recently claiming they’d measured Esso’s regular UL at only 2% ethanol, so maybe this change to SUL is not much to worry about if that ends up the same proportion.

Ethanol’s been around for a while now, when I had an older car that sat in the garage over winters I never had any issues with absorbing water. Just use a fuel additive if you’re worried (I did for several years and never noticed any difference when I didn’t)

[CraigyMc]

Conscript said:

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.

"Doesn't this mean the only place that sells ethanol free petrol is going to stop doing so?"
yes.

"is ethanol crap for storage due to its absorption of water"
yes.

"is that why it's a big deal to you?"
yes.

Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 20th June 12:24

Another example of why I frequent these forums less and less these days. Politely post a genuine question, to be met with condescension. You even went as far as editing your initial response to make it more so :/

My post wasn't so much "it's not a big deal, get over it", but more questioning the OP's point that this wasn't the industry norm. As far as I know, Esso were the only supplier providing entirely ethanol free fuel, and even then, only in certain areas. My point being, that there must surely be a huge amount of people for which any form of ethanol content is a concern, and who already wont have access to anything other than E5...so how do they currently deal with that? I presume your only option will be fuel additives? I wasn't trying to brush this off as a non-issue.

The internet is certainly a harsh place. Perhaps with suitable counselling you'll cope.

There aren't retail additives that remove ethanol from fuel - you are probably conflating octane boosting with ethanol here, and while they are related (ethanol itself is an octane booster within petrol), it's not the same problem. We're not trying to boost the octane of the fuel.

It's possible to remove ethanol from petrol by simply pouring a load of water into the petrol, agitating the mixture, and letting it settle out (the ethanol will do what ethanol likes to do, and bind with some of the water) - once it's done that, It'll separate and the petrol will float on top of the water/ethanol layers. You could pour the water/ethanol out of the bottom of the container and be left with ethanol-free petrol, but I don't forsee people doing that for a multitude of reasons.

The only way I know of to get ethanol free fuel once Esso stop selling it retail is to buy from a specialist, such as anglo american [
https://aaoil.co.uk/product-tag/no-ethanol/ ].
It's effectively what you'd be doing if you were running a competition car or old-timer that needed something that wasn't normal road fuel. Apart from the hassle, it's going to be >2x the price of retail fuel and will usually require a petrol storage license (you'd buy it by the barrel).

They call ethanol-free fuel "storage fuel" because it doesn't kill lawnmowers/chainsaws/sportscars that are stored over winter, the way ethanol-containing fuels do.

Avgas (100LL) is also ethanol free (made that way because water in your fuel at altitude may ice up which is bad), however it's also got lead in it, which kills catalysts so would not be usable in anything since the 1990s without damaging it, and also.. well, lead fumes were banned for good reason.

Removing this choice from the market is bad.

[Conscript]

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.

"Doesn't this mean the only place that sells ethanol free petrol is going to stop doing so?"
yes.

"is ethanol crap for storage due to its absorption of water"
yes.

"is that why it's a big deal to you?"
yes.

Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 20th June 12:24

Another example of why I frequent these forums less and less these days. Politely post a genuine question, to be met with condescension. You even went as far as editing your initial response to make it more so :/

My post wasn't so much "it's not a big deal, get over it", but more questioning the OP's point that this wasn't the industry norm. As far as I know, Esso were the only supplier providing entirely ethanol free fuel, and even then, only in certain areas. My point being, that there must surely be a huge amount of people for which any form of ethanol content is a concern, and who already wont have access to anything other than E5...so how do they currently deal with that? I presume your only option will be fuel additives? I wasn't trying to brush this off as a non-issue.

The internet is certainly a harsh place. Perhaps with suitable counselling you'll cope.

There aren't retail additives that remove ethanol from fuel - you are probably conflating octane boosting with ethanol here, and while they are related (ethanol itself is an octane booster within petrol), it's not the same problem. We're not trying to boost the octane of the fuel.

It's possible to remove ethanol from petrol by simply pouring a load of water into the petrol, agitating the mixture, and letting it settle out (the ethanol will do what ethanol likes to do, and bind with some of the water) - once it's done that, It'll separate and the petrol will float on top of the water/ethanol layers. You could pour the water/ethanol out of the bottom of the container and be left with ethanol-free petrol, but I don't forsee people doing that for a multitude of reasons.

The only way I know of to get ethanol free fuel once Esso stop selling it retail is to buy from a specialist, such as anglo american [
https://aaoil.co.uk/product-tag/no-ethanol/ ].
It's effectively what you'd be doing if you were running a competition car or old-timer that needed something that wasn't normal road fuel. Apart from the hassle, it's going to be >2x the price of retail fuel and will usually require a petrol storage license (you'd buy it by the barrel).

They call ethanol-free fuel "storage fuel" because it doesn't kill lawnmowers/chainsaws/sportscars that are stored over winter, the way ethanol-containing fuels do.

Avgas (100LL) is also ethanol free (made that way because water in your fuel at altitude may ice up which is bad), however it's also got lead in it, which kills catalysts so would not be usable in anything since the 1990s without damaging it, and also.. well, lead fumes were banned for good reason.

Removing this choice from the market is bad.

See, minus the first line ( ) that response was informative and interesting and put me straight on my assessment of the problem. As I said I wasn't trying to brush it off or offend you, and yes, broadly I agree that the removal of choice is bad. So, genuinely thanks - exactly the kind of response I had hoped to further the discussion with.

And yes, you're right, I had octane boosters and such in my head. I was sure I had seen additives that didn't remove ethanol, but still stabilised the fuel for better long term storage; but I fully admit that I might have dreamt it.

[Hol]

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Yes, you are correct in saying that Esso was a (very welcome) outlier that will cease to exist and at that point (upto) 5% ethanol will be the lowest percentile fuels available.


As someone with a set of period Weber 45’s hanging of a classic Ford engine being fed by a 52year old steel fuel tank, I can honestly say, that it’s not the best news all week.

[Fastdruid]

It really is a clusterfk. You have companies labelling their fuel as E10 when it's not even E5, fuel labelled as E5 when it's E0 or not, maybe, depending on where you are.

Even if you test the fuel at your local stations and find one with low/no ethanol, they could change tomorrow from 2% to 10% ethanol without so much as changing a single notice.

I'm not sure that Esso super was any different tbh to most others, just that they were a bit clearer with the amount of ethanol while the others were vague.

As someone with carbed bikes and seeing the horrible gummy mess that ethanol makes when it absorbs water, not to mention the effect it has on the various pipes and carbs themselves I'd really rather avoid it where possible.

[Dingu]

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

CraigyMc said:

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.

"Doesn't this mean the only place that sells ethanol free petrol is going to stop doing so?"
yes.

"is ethanol crap for storage due to its absorption of water"
yes.

"is that why it's a big deal to you?"
yes.

Edited by CraigyMc on Tuesday 20th June 12:24

Another example of why I frequent these forums less and less these days. Politely post a genuine question, to be met with condescension. You even went as far as editing your initial response to make it more so :/

My post wasn't so much "it's not a big deal, get over it", but more questioning the OP's point that this wasn't the industry norm. As far as I know, Esso were the only supplier providing entirely ethanol free fuel, and even then, only in certain areas. My point being, that there must surely be a huge amount of people for which any form of ethanol content is a concern, and who already wont have access to anything other than E5...so how do they currently deal with that? I presume your only option will be fuel additives? I wasn't trying to brush this off as a non-issue.

The internet is certainly a harsh place. Perhaps with suitable counselling you'll cope.

There aren't retail additives that remove ethanol from fuel - you are probably conflating octane boosting with ethanol here, and while they are related (ethanol itself is an octane booster within petrol), it's not the same problem. We're not trying to boost the octane of the fuel.

It's possible to remove ethanol from petrol by simply pouring a load of water into the petrol, agitating the mixture, and letting it settle out (the ethanol will do what ethanol likes to do, and bind with some of the water) - once it's done that, It'll separate and the petrol will float on top of the water/ethanol layers. You could pour the water/ethanol out of the bottom of the container and be left with ethanol-free petrol, but I don't forsee people doing that for a multitude of reasons.

The only way I know of to get ethanol free fuel once Esso stop selling it retail is to buy from a specialist, such as anglo american [
https://aaoil.co.uk/product-tag/no-ethanol/ ].
It's effectively what you'd be doing if you were running a competition car or old-timer that needed something that wasn't normal road fuel. Apart from the hassle, it's going to be >2x the price of retail fuel and will usually require a petrol storage license (you'd buy it by the barrel).

They call ethanol-free fuel "storage fuel" because it doesn't kill lawnmowers/chainsaws/sportscars that are stored over winter, the way ethanol-containing fuels do.

Avgas (100LL) is also ethanol free (made that way because water in your fuel at altitude may ice up which is bad), however it's also got lead in it, which kills catalysts so would not be usable in anything since the 1990s without damaging it, and also.. well, lead fumes were banned for good reason.

Removing this choice from the market is bad.

Not sure how you make it through the day if such trivial things get you so worked up.
You can purchase it from specialists, Esso don’t owe it to you to keep producing it.

[unsprung]

Conscript said:

It's disappointing I'm sure, but doesn't this just mean that Esso 99 will be line with other companies providing premium fuels?

As far as I'm aware, most premium unleaded (VPower, BP, Tesco 99, etc) was all E5 anyway, so Esso 99 is still not going to have any more ethanol content than those....and no more than most standard unleaded contained until the switch a couple of years ago. It might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, it is the industry norm for premium unleaded to contain up to 5% ethanol.

Yes. Since 2011, UK policy has required new cars to be compatible with E10 (10% ethanol). The expansion of E5 (5% ethanol) will have almost no discernible effect on the performance and reliability of the vast majority of cars in the UK.

In other countries, hundreds of millions of cars have been running E10 (10% ethanol) for more than a decade. US introduction began more than two decades ago. Being "in line" with others, as you've pointed out.

So, while the challenge of E5 in the UK could be of importance to classic owners here on PH, it's essentially a non-event for everybody else.

The fueling issues of classic cars are well know and, let's be honest, not exactly life-changing events. Sources such as Hagerty walk through the details:

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/maintenance-and...

[PMedic]

I have a petrol mower old one and this is what I have been using as after 4 months even e5 can start to breakdown!

[kambites]

CraigyMc said:

There aren't retail additives that remove ethanol from fuel...

No, but there are additives which claim to inhibit the corrosion caused by ethanol when it comes into contact with certain metal components, which is by far the biggest problem with running classics on ethanol blends. Many also claim to combat the lesser issues with E10 in classics too - gumming up of carbs, contamination of lubricants, etc. No idea if they work, mind.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 20th June 16:25

[astonman]

Esso Supreme 99+ unleaded,Ethanol free is the go to fuel for pretty much every Aston Martin produced before 2010.

" Esso is James Bonds petrol,for his Aston Martin DB5!".
What an extraordinary marketing gaff!
I'm told Esso are changing,just so they aren't different.In business,it's being different,that allows you to be better and more successful .

[M4cruiser]

Annoying. No, worse than that.
I have an old car which gets little use, and luckily I live close to an Esso station.
But I don't have much clout up against these giants. I shall make my current cars last as long as possible but then I shall have to conform to what the government wants me to do, but they still don't get we hate them for it. So when Mr Sunak gets his partygate he won't get any sympathy from me.