RE: 2024 Range Rover Sport SV | PH Review
Discussion
SDK said:
el romeral said:
Quite a machine - nudging £200k and 200mph.
The 2 for sale on Autotrader are £200k and £209k.SVR prices are ridiculous - the RR SVR is easy to spec to £240k with a few options
Also, the nice plush interior of previous models is gone, replaced with a large, laggy screen
People say EV’s are expensive and depreciate a lot - these are much worse !
Like it or not, there is a huge market for these things, so much so that their depreciation is lower than electric cars currently.
Would I buy one, no.
If I had £200k budget for a nice fast SUV, well I would certainly take one for test drive.
Deranged Rover said:
Maybe the new generation of BMW V8 is an absolute paragon of utter engineering perfection. I certainly hope so. But once bitten, twice shy and all that - for me, going from a JLR engine back to a BMW one is a disappointing retrograde step, especially as they're still making the JLR V8 for the Defender.
I have the JLR 5.0S/C and the 4.4BMW. It is definitely a leap forward in every aspect. flight147z said:
Portofino said:
Err, because you may want it hotter or colder?
Why would 22c be fine on one day but not on another? Makes no sense at all. Your body is always the same temperature. Do you turn your fridge up and down at home too just in case you want your chilled food slightly hotter or colder?WY86 said:
Julian Scott said:
The X5 is a very impressive and accomplished car.....but the new RR is a league ahead. Just because they share the same engine doesn't make them equals.
Each to their own, personally the new RR sport does nothing forMe, i drove the previous gen SVR and i had a poke around a new sport and i just don’t get the hype. Especially considering the insurance premiums.
Edited by WY86 on Saturday 17th February 21:44
Mikebentley said:
You can alter the fan speed and temperature using the voice control via a single steering wheel button and well..speech. It’s easier than a knob.
Would you argue that pressing the button and saying "drivers window down" is easier than pressing a button?!I have to say that it's really, really, reaching to say that pressing a button and saying "fan speed down" is in any way easier than reaching out, finding a knob by touch, and turning it appropriately. Or pressing a button up or down a couple of times to change temperature.
Voice controls are a necessary evil for longer more distracting operations (set navigation destination to XXX and so on) but are absolutely absurd for basic oft performed functions that were 100% muscle memory before cost reducing touchscreens.
NGK210 said:
SmithCorona said:
This is an interesting debate. I went from a 2019 L405 back to a 2017 L405 - mostly, because I couldn't stand the lower touch screen in the facelift.
If you are in and out of the car all day, in the countryside in winter, you will be wearing gloves. And if you are using the car for more than transport you will be changing modes, ride height and gearbox.
When the new L460 and sport came out I was pleased they had reverted to physical buttons, but disliked much of the rest of the car.
The recent removal of the physical HVAC and the physical drive modes/low range etc. means I am unlikely to buy a FFRR or RRS again. But there are many thousands who don't use them like I do, so JLR won't care too much.
^This. If you are in and out of the car all day, in the countryside in winter, you will be wearing gloves. And if you are using the car for more than transport you will be changing modes, ride height and gearbox.
When the new L460 and sport came out I was pleased they had reverted to physical buttons, but disliked much of the rest of the car.
The recent removal of the physical HVAC and the physical drive modes/low range etc. means I am unlikely to buy a FFRR or RRS again. But there are many thousands who don't use them like I do, so JLR won't care too much.
Deranged Rover said:
Julian Scott said:
Specific reason? Given BMW have made some of the best engines in history?
....or just Teutophobia/casual-racism?
Interesting that your first thought turned to casual racism. I'm afraid that says more about you than it does me!....or just Teutophobia/casual-racism?
No, the actual reason is that I had the misfortune to own a Range Rover L322 with the BMW M62 V8 engine, The power delivery and the noise were completely unsuited to the car, in my opinion, and the M62 has well documented issues with the cooling system. I can certainly vouch for this, as I spent the thick end of £2000 replacing most of it on mine, and then finally got shot of it when it turned out that a nice-side effect of the s
t cooling system was that coolant had found its way into the gearbox and was gradually eating its friction linings away.My current L322 has the supercharged Jaguar engine which sounds magnificent, has a far better spread of torque that suits the nature of the vehicle better and which appears to have been designed properly.
Maybe the new generation of BMW V8 is an absolute paragon of utter engineering perfection. I certainly hope so. But once bitten, twice shy and all that - for me, going from a JLR engine back to a BMW one is a disappointing retrograde step, especially as they're still making the JLR V8 for the Defender.
I own a car with that same Supercharged Jag V8, it's a peach, but it's also dated and thirsty, but also don't rule out cars based on experiences of 30yr old technology
Deranged Rover said:
Interesting that your first thought turned to casual racism. I'm afraid that says more about you than it does me!
No, the actual reason is that I had the misfortune to own a Range Rover L322 with the BMW M62 V8 engine, The power delivery and the noise were completely unsuited to the car, in my opinion, and the M62 has well documented issues with the cooling system. I can certainly vouch for this, as I spent the thick end of £2000 replacing most of it on mine, and then finally got shot of it when it turned out that a nice-side effect of the st cooling system was that coolant had found its way into the gearbox and was gradually eating its friction linings away.
My current L322 has the supercharged Jaguar engine which sounds magnificent, has a far better spread of torque that suits the nature of the vehicle better and which appears to have been designed properly.
Maybe the new generation of BMW V8 is an absolute paragon of utter engineering perfection. I certainly hope so. But once bitten, twice shy and all that - for me, going from a JLR engine back to a BMW one is a disappointing retrograde step, especially as they're still making the JLR V8 for the Defender.
Every BMW V8 has been a pain in the arse outside of warranty with timing gear trouble, valve stem seals, and endless oil and coolant leaks often from absurd places. They rarely make it to big miles and in the US they’re considered a complete joke for their fragility and inability to last.No, the actual reason is that I had the misfortune to own a Range Rover L322 with the BMW M62 V8 engine, The power delivery and the noise were completely unsuited to the car, in my opinion, and the M62 has well documented issues with the cooling system. I can certainly vouch for this, as I spent the thick end of £2000 replacing most of it on mine, and then finally got shot of it when it turned out that a nice-side effect of the s
t cooling system was that coolant had found its way into the gearbox and was gradually eating its friction linings away.My current L322 has the supercharged Jaguar engine which sounds magnificent, has a far better spread of torque that suits the nature of the vehicle better and which appears to have been designed properly.
Maybe the new generation of BMW V8 is an absolute paragon of utter engineering perfection. I certainly hope so. But once bitten, twice shy and all that - for me, going from a JLR engine back to a BMW one is a disappointing retrograde step, especially as they're still making the JLR V8 for the Defender.
They have been making the N63 for 16 years though, and although they were disastrous at first even by BMW engine standards you really would hope they're sorted by now.
That said, long term durability and reliability is probably not tremendously important to LRs actual customers who buy the cars new and I'm sure they'll be no bother within the warranty period.
GeniusOfLove said:
Every BMW V8 has been a pain in the arse outside of warranty with timing gear trouble, valve stem seals, and endless oil and coolant leaks often from absurd places. They rarely make it to big miles and in the US they’re considered a complete joke for their fragility and inability to last.
They have been making the N63 for 16 years though, and although they were disastrous at first even by BMW engine standards you really would hope they're sorted by now.
That said, long term durability and reliability is probably not tremendously important to LRs actual customers who buy the cars new and I'm sure they'll be no bother within the warranty period.
The M62 V8 used in the L322 was in production from 1995 until 2005 and it was in those later years that the L322 used it, so they clearly hadn't sorted that engine's issues at the end of the production run.They have been making the N63 for 16 years though, and although they were disastrous at first even by BMW engine standards you really would hope they're sorted by now.
That said, long term durability and reliability is probably not tremendously important to LRs actual customers who buy the cars new and I'm sure they'll be no bother within the warranty period.
That is, of course, unless my friend's theory is true - he reckons that there was a two way split at the end of the M62 production lines and the ones that passed QC went into the BMW factory, and the QC failures were shipped to Land Rover on the basis of "they won't care" !
Out of curiosity, I've done a bit of digging on the new N63 engine used in the Range Rover and Range Rover Spawt, and it really doesn't make for great reading:
The main drawback of the BMW N63 engine is its reliability. Early versions of the N63 (2008-2013) suffered from several well-documented reliability issues, including high oil consumption, turbocharger failures, and valve stem seal leaks. Later iterations (N63TU onwards) addressed some of these problems, but they’re not immune to issues altogether. Customers also reported other various problems and failures, such as coolant leaks, carbon build-up, timing chain issues and fuel injector failures. Some of these problems can be very expensive and difficult to fix, and may require extensive repairs or replacements. The engine also has a high maintenance cost, as it requires frequent oil changes, spark plug changes, coolant flushes and other services.
Deranged Rover said:
The main drawback of the BMW N63 engine is its reliability. Early versions of the N63 (2008-2013) suffered from several well-documented reliability issues, including high oil consumption, turbocharger failures, and valve stem seal leaks. Later iterations (N63TU onwards) addressed some of these problems, but they’re not immune to issues altogether. Customers also reported other various problems and failures, such as coolant leaks, carbon build-up, timing chain issues and fuel injector failures. Some of these problems can be very expensive and difficult to fix, and may require extensive repairs or replacements. The engine also has a high maintenance cost, as it requires frequent oil changes, spark plug changes, coolant flushes and other services.
Which would all be quite interesting ifa. that quote wasn't from an engine was used 10-5 years ago and
b. it's not even the engine that's used in the new RRS SVR, it's the S63
which in all metrics (power, torque, efficiency, CO2) is leagues ahead of the SC 5.0 piece of pig-iron. It did make a nice noise though.
Uncle Meat said:
Which would all be quite interesting if
a. that quote wasn't from an engine was used 10-5 years ago and
b. it's not even the engine that's used in the new RRS SVR, it's the S63
which in all metrics (power, torque, efficiency, CO2) is leagues ahead of the SC 5.0 piece of pig-iron. It did make a nice noise though.
The JLR 5.0 suffers in efficiency and peak power/torque output because it's supercharged of course, but that does yield very real benefits in throttle response and driveability over a turbocharged engine. Whether those matter in a car of this nature is a different matter though, and whether they ever really mattered to most customers over better efficiency and eventually better top trumps figures is open to debate. a. that quote wasn't from an engine was used 10-5 years ago and
b. it's not even the engine that's used in the new RRS SVR, it's the S63
which in all metrics (power, torque, efficiency, CO2) is leagues ahead of the SC 5.0 piece of pig-iron. It did make a nice noise though.
I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
GeniusOfLove said:
The JLR 5.0 suffers in efficiency and peak power/torque output because it's supercharged of course, but that does yield very real benefits in throttle response and driveability over a turbocharged engine. Whether those matter in a car of this nature is a different matter though, and whether they ever really mattered to most customers over better efficiency and eventually better top trumps figures is open to debate.
I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
Certainly matters in my F-Type - makes the car! I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
ettore said:
GeniusOfLove said:
The JLR 5.0 suffers in efficiency and peak power/torque output because it's supercharged of course, but that does yield very real benefits in throttle response and driveability over a turbocharged engine. Whether those matter in a car of this nature is a different matter though, and whether they ever really mattered to most customers over better efficiency and eventually better top trumps figures is open to debate.
I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
Certainly matters in my F-Type - makes the car! I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
Cold said:
ettore said:
GeniusOfLove said:
The JLR 5.0 suffers in efficiency and peak power/torque output because it's supercharged of course, but that does yield very real benefits in throttle response and driveability over a turbocharged engine. Whether those matter in a car of this nature is a different matter though, and whether they ever really mattered to most customers over better efficiency and eventually better top trumps figures is open to debate.
I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
Certainly matters in my F-Type - makes the car! I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
GeniusOfLove said:
Cold said:
ettore said:
GeniusOfLove said:
The JLR 5.0 suffers in efficiency and peak power/torque output because it's supercharged of course, but that does yield very real benefits in throttle response and driveability over a turbocharged engine. Whether those matter in a car of this nature is a different matter though, and whether they ever really mattered to most customers over better efficiency and eventually better top trumps figures is open to debate.
I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
Certainly matters in my F-Type - makes the car! I'm sad to see the end of it though, I dislike turbocharged engines.
L494 and L405 application of the 5.0S/C is different to the F's.
There is a dead spot by design on most of the RRs to enable gentle set off, and limit drive train shock - particularly to the transfer cases and boxes etc.
Certainly makes the 5.0 feel very sluggish in the first thousand or so revs, almost like the Supercharger losses are overwhelming the hp generation of the engine. Can be remedied a bit by popping the gearbox in sport mode or getting a pedal box.
There is a dead spot by design on most of the RRs to enable gentle set off, and limit drive train shock - particularly to the transfer cases and boxes etc.
Certainly makes the 5.0 feel very sluggish in the first thousand or so revs, almost like the Supercharger losses are overwhelming the hp generation of the engine. Can be remedied a bit by popping the gearbox in sport mode or getting a pedal box.
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