RE: 2024 Volkswagen ID 7 vs. Hyundai Ioniq 6

[dundarach]

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 & 6 are aging faster than a chain smoking, slim mother on a council estate!

[Watcher of the skies]

Whilst neither appeals to me if I had to take one it would have to be the Hyundai. It's cheaper and at least it comes from a reputable manufacturer and is less likely to give trouble down the line.

[Gigamoons]

Zero Fuchs said:

Gigamoons said:

It’s true what you say. But…
A bread & butter car back then didn’t cost 1.5 uk ave salary.
It had a decent residual demand when it was time to sell it.
It could be fuelled anywhere like the car you used to have and didn’t require either a driveway or detailed route planning.

It’s this that a lot of EV evangelicals don’t seem to consider and is the reason the market between manufacturers / governments going only EV and punters wanting just EVs is diverging at such a rate of knots.

All cars are expensive nowadays. I bought a new 200bhp EP3 in 2003 for £14k after discount. You can't even buy the top of the range 1.0 litre Picanto for anything less than £17k nowadays. Meanwhile the FL5 id nudging £50k. Quite a leap in 20 years.

EVs are expensive for good reason, if you understand how new tech. That pretty much answers all your points. You don't need to be an EV evangelical to understand that.

True, but irregardless of the reasons, I stand by the point that manufacturers / governments / EV evangelists are saying “we’ll all the driving one, no choice” and the average family is saying “well we won’t, because we can’t afford one, we don’t have a driveway and our current ICE car does the job”.

[FlukePlay]

Watcher of the skies said:

Whilst neither appeals to me if I had to take one it would have to be the Hyundai. It's cheaper and at least it comes from a reputable manufacturer and is less likely to give trouble down the line.

Hyundai provides 5 year unlimited mileage warranty and 8 years/100K miles (whichever comes first) on the battery. In the US they offer 10 years on the battery. I'd feel a lot more confident in owning the Hyundai, especially if it's a used car purchase at 2-3 years old.

[Zero Fuchs]

Gigamoons said:

Zero Fuchs said:

Gigamoons said:

It’s true what you say. But…
A bread & butter car back then didn’t cost 1.5 uk ave salary.
It had a decent residual demand when it was time to sell it.
It could be fuelled anywhere like the car you used to have and didn’t require either a driveway or detailed route planning.

It’s this that a lot of EV evangelicals don’t seem to consider and is the reason the market between manufacturers / governments going only EV and punters wanting just EVs is diverging at such a rate of knots.

All cars are expensive nowadays. I bought a new 200bhp EP3 in 2003 for £14k after discount. You can't even buy the top of the range 1.0 litre Picanto for anything less than £17k nowadays. Meanwhile the FL5 id nudging £50k. Quite a leap in 20 years.

EVs are expensive for good reason, if you understand how new tech. That pretty much answers all your points. You don't need to be an EV evangelical to understand that.

True, but irregardless of the reasons, I stand by the point that manufacturers / governments / EV evangelists are saying “we’ll all the driving one, no choice” and the average family is saying “well we won’t, because we can’t afford one, we don’t have a driveway and our current ICE car does the job”.

Yes but the thing you're completely missing is that you're projecting the current situation to 2035 and beyond. Or applying your argument to now.

Some of us will be driving EV, some won't, due to age.

Noone knows how costs will go but new tech invariably goes down.

Everyone has a choice currently so noone is being forced into an EV right now.

Again. You don't need to be an evangelist to understand that. Just aware of the facts.

[so called]

plfrench said:

fantheman80 said:

plfrench said:

Contrary to popular opinion, EVs aren’t that great off the line.

Are you sure? Isn’t that their party piece? Plenty of nuts 0-60 times quoted by ev’s and while not the fast ones here, still 4wd and RWD should mean those numbers are conservative I’d say

Yes, the initial 0-10 part is disproportionately slow due to fixed gearing, this is why 0-60 doesn’t really reflect how quick they are in the real world compared to ICE. It’s a bit like pulling off the line in 2nd gear

Out of interest, what EV's have you driven ?
My I-Pace compares very well to my Tuscan off the line.

[CheesecakeRunner]

Gigamoons said:

True, but irregardless of the reasons, I stand by the point that manufacturers / governments / EV evangelists are saying “we’ll all the driving one, no choice” and the average family is saying “well we won’t, because we can’t afford one, we don’t have a driveway and our current ICE car does the job”.

The average family don’t, and never have until very, very recently due to the relaxing of borrowing regulations, bought new cars.

The cars I listed originally, and these, are standard company car fodder. They never were bought by private buyers. And these new ones, as with those of the past, will come to private ‘average’ buyers via the secondhand market as they have always done.

[plfrench]

so called said:

Out of interest, what EV's have you driven ?
My I-Pace compares very well to my Tuscan off the line.

Only slow ones so far, but you’ve just highlighted my point; just taking basic 0-60 time, Tuscan is quicker than an I-pace, but real already moving up world up to legalise speeds the Tuscan would struggle. It’s down to the very initial part of the 0-60 which gives the Tuscan the time advantage. Take that out of the equation and the tables turn. It might not even be 10mph, but just the initial motion starting. As I say there’s a reason Tesla quite their 0-60 times with a one foot roll on.

All I’m saying is that the 0-60 times undersell EVs in the real world of driving.

[so called]

legless said:

_ppan said:

.I've been to Germany numerous times and most people don't drive 100mph+ on a derestricted stretch (although more people do so than in other countries).

I drove in Germany monthly on business. In my experience, 95%+ of traffic stays under 90mph most of the time.

I lived and worked in Germany for 22 years and agree, average on the Autobahn I would put at around 130km/h.
I've enjoyed high speed Autobahn driving in my TVR's, Merc's etc., but as I get older, speed is less attractive.

[Lil_Red_GTV]

Petrolism said:

EVery time I visit Piston heads news, there's another EV article. I wish they'd stop trying to ram these down our throat as an enthusiasts choices.
If I wanted to read about cars I'm not remotely interested in, I've frequent Auto Express,

Pistonheads doesn't give a toss, they just want readers to comment and dislike, it seems. My interest in this website has already declined vastly. It's pretty much a waste of time now.

I highly doubt that's true. Anyone writing for or working for Pistonheads will, I am sure, be passionate about cars. They are sure as hell not in it for the money.

Pistonheads faces a choice. It can become a niche classic car site, recycling the same stories about the same finite pool of old cars, or it can also cover new cars and follow their evolution as we enter a new age - the age of the EV.

I personally hope they choose the latter, as the former represents stagnation. The current mix, of covering classic and restomod stuff AND new EVs, feels about right to me. I like old stuff, but I am also interested in seeing the car industry grapple with the new challenges it is facing, even if it is not always successful.

[bennytheball]

Lil_Red_GTV said:

Petrolism said:

EVery time I visit Piston heads news, there's another EV article. I wish they'd stop trying to ram these down our throat as an enthusiasts choices.
If I wanted to read about cars I'm not remotely interested in, I've frequent Auto Express,

Pistonheads doesn't give a toss, they just want readers to comment and dislike, it seems. My interest in this website has already declined vastly. It's pretty much a waste of time now.

I highly doubt that's true. Anyone writing for or working for Pistonheads will, I am sure, be passionate about cars. They are sure as hell not in it for the money.

Pistonheads faces a choice. It can become a niche classic car site, recycling the same stories about the same finite pool of old cars, or it can also cover new cars and follow their evolution as we enter a new age - the age of the EV.

I personally hope they choose the latter, as the former represents stagnation. The current mix, of covering classic and restomod stuff AND new EVs, feels about right to me. I like old stuff, but I am also interested in seeing the car industry grapple with the new challenges it is facing, even if it is not always successful.

Well said.

I was curious about the flurry of posts insisting PH was becoming dominated by EV stories. It isn't. Of the last 50 or so items, 42 are ICE related and 8 are about EVs. PH still does its best to report on ICE, even as the new car market is clearly changing, whether people like it or not.

What is clear is that it's the EV related posts that attract most of the traffic. If you don't like reading about EVs, don't

[DaveyBoyWonder]

Xenoous said:

I have never been less interested in a review than this.

This. Skip to the summary - one charges quickly. The other is as dull as ditch water.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

The Ioniq 6 is too odd looking. I tried to like it as it is different to the usual bland offerings but it just looks plain awful.

[so called]

plfrench said:

so called said:

Out of interest, what EV's have you driven ?
My I-Pace compares very well to my Tuscan off the line.

Only slow ones so far, but you’ve just highlighted my point; just taking basic 0-60 time, Tuscan is quicker than an I-pace, but real already moving up world up to legalise speeds the Tuscan would struggle. It’s down to the very initial part of the 0-60 which gives the Tuscan the time advantage. Take that out of the equation and the tables turn. It might not even be 10mph, but just the initial motion starting. As I say there’s a reason Tesla quite their 0-60 times with a one foot roll on.

All I’m saying is that the 0-60 times undersell EVs in the real world of driving.

I do take your point.
Also, I've noticed on all of the EV's I've owned that you can sometimes get a slow throttle response.
An example is when your approaching a round-a-bout and looking for a gap in regen braking mode and suddenly decide to go.

Unfortunately, 0 to 60 in my Tuscan involves me changing gear a couple of times which would probably render the I-Pace the winner.

[Fetchez la vache]

£50k to look either achingly dull or awkward?
Where do I sign?

[_ppan]

so called said:

I lived and worked in Germany for 22 years and agree, average on the Autobahn I would put at around 130km/h.
I've enjoyed high speed Autobahn driving in my TVR's, Merc's etc., but as I get older, speed is less attractive.

It was nice to test my JDM Integra Type R DC2 to 239km/h on GPS on the Autobahn. But after 2 minutes it's just boring. Corners and acceleration are so much more fun.

[_ppan]

paul13 said:

I have an Elise S1 so visit this forum a lot: https://forums.thelotusforums.com/

That's a shame paul13 and 911Spanker, but obviously you have to right to leave this board. Miata.net has a wealth of information on MX5's, one of my favs. Also, a lot of forums have moved to the magnificent Facebook so maybe Facebook might be for you.

[legless]

Watcher of the skies said:

Whilst neither appeals to me if I had to take one it would have to be the Hyundai. It's cheaper .

Eh?

Hyundai:

PH said:

Price: £54,040 (price as standard; price as tested £55,735 comprising digital side mirrors for £995 (!), Serenity White paint for £700

VW:

PH said:

Price: £51,550 (price as standard; price as tested £52,600 comprising energy efficient heat pump for £1,050)

[D4rez]

Lil_Red_GTV said:

I highly doubt that's true. Anyone writing for or working for Pistonheads will, I am sure, be passionate about cars. They are sure as hell not in it for the money.

Pistonheads faces a choice. It can become a niche classic car site, recycling the same stories about the same finite pool of old cars, or it can also cover new cars and follow their evolution as we enter a new age - the age of the EV.

I personally hope they choose the latter, as the former represents stagnation. The current mix, of covering classic and restomod stuff AND new EVs, feels about right to me. I like old stuff, but I am also interested in seeing the car industry grapple with the new challenges it is facing, even if it is not always successful.

This is very on point - it’s going to be a very empty front page if they don’t embrace it.

Ten years ago I would imagine that a review of 2 “warm” performance saloons would’ve been standard fare on here. The potential owners of which looking for a desirable design, some pace and some tech combined with practicality. These two cars somewhat fail on that metric but that’s nothing to do with powertrain

[AmyRichardson]

Gigamoons said:

True, but irregardless of the reasons, I stand by the point that manufacturers / governments / EV evangelists are saying “we’ll all the driving one, no choice” and the average family is saying “well we won’t, because we can’t afford one, we don’t have a driveway and our current ICE car does the job”.

A 200hp Mondeo (a considerably less substantial and capable car) was indeed about ~1.3 times average salary in 2000, the equivalent of c.£44k today. Plus ca change.