An epidemic of insanely slow drivers
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
There is zero reason, why a person with defective eyesight, very poor health such that it affects their driving, or a defective vehicle, should be on a public road in the first place .
There is zero reason, why someone should be driving on a public road, at well below a posted limit, with a large queue of other road users built up behind them.
There is zero reason, why someone who has built up a large queue of other road users behind should not pull off the road every few miles to allow the traffic build up to get by. Only they don't do they? They are either driving without due care and attention and have not used their mirrors to see the large queue that has built up behind them, or that `have' seen that queue, but who simply don't care how many other road users (some of whom may have many miles to cover, or must get to a destination by a specific time) they impede.
Do you think anyone on this thread fundamentally disagrees with any of the above? Everything in your first sentence is defined in law, and generally fairly well monitored - the proportion of road casualties caused primarily by these factors is relatively small. The problem (at least from your perspective) is that the acceptable range is too large. However, you will also fall somewhere within that range. As an example, if you are over about 45 your night vision will not be as good as it once was and you will (hopefully) have slowed down a bit in certain areas to compensate - you probably don’t even realise you are doing it. There is zero reason, why someone should be driving on a public road, at well below a posted limit, with a large queue of other road users built up behind them.
There is zero reason, why someone who has built up a large queue of other road users behind should not pull off the road every few miles to allow the traffic build up to get by. Only they don't do they? They are either driving without due care and attention and have not used their mirrors to see the large queue that has built up behind them, or that `have' seen that queue, but who simply don't care how many other road users (some of whom may have many miles to cover, or must get to a destination by a specific time) they impede.
Of course people should avoid impeding other drivers, but this is not the same thing as a requirement to drive at the posted limit - there is a reasonable (and legal) expectation that those other drivers will either smartly overtake given an opportunity or hold back to allow others to do so. Thinking about this on a 50ish mile A road drive at the weekend (with some time pressure - dropping someone off for a booked train) I did both on several occasions - If you can see your turning you don’t go for the overtake, but still worth dropping back to let someone else go. You are obsessing about slow drivers, when it is other poor driving behaviours that make them a problem.
I have occasionally driven the entire length of the M6 south from Glasgow and managed to average over 70mph, without ever going anywhere near instant licence losing speeds, but I would never expect to average over about 50 on any significant length journey on single carriageway roads. Nobody does. Slow drivers are only one of a number of things that drops the average down (not least stretches of lower limits). How did you cope when LGVs were limited to 40 (as they still are in Scotland)?
Oilchange said:
My solution is, therefor, to drive at the speed limit where it is safe and prudent to do so, not dawdle on a fast road holding the traffic up or rocket around like I have a missile up my a***.
At least that's what I do now.
If I concentrate hard I bet I can guess which of those two you used to engage in... At least that's what I do now.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please explain what is wrong with someone wishing to travel (legally) at the UK's posted speed limits.
Nothing.However there is something wrong with you wanting to dictate how everyone else drives so you don't get held up or made late for something or cannot always travel at a speed to suit you.
In my previous life as I have already mentioned, I drove 95kish miles a year for 15 years taking and picking up people to and from airports, and do you know what, in all that time I never had a customer miss a flight or never failed to be there when they arrived back.
That's because I was sensible and didn't expect everyone to get out of my way or drive at every single speed limit just to suit me so made allowances to ensure I got to where I needed to get in time. It's not hard to do if you adopt a bit of common sense about your travels.
We share the roads with many millions of other drivers and the sort of situations you keep going on about were and still are few and far between in my experience and I suspect the experience of the majority.
The issue you have is one of control and expecting everyone else to defer to your needs, not to hold you up, not to make you late, not to get in your way, travel at the speed you want them to travel at, and if they don't to hand in their licence.
Guess what, the world doesn't work like that.
You are clearly the sort who get's worked up about every minor inconvenience, probably cause a bit of road rage because you can't get your own way, and that is coming across very clearly in your postings on this thread.
If anything it is people like you who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving licence.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 10th April 12:29
Pan Pan Pan said:
Monkeylegend said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Monkeylegend said:
Thankfully we still have the freedom of choice to decide on a personal basis what speed we wish to drive at as long as we are not breaking any laws, and driving below the posted limit is not illegal, so posters who are trying to impose their desires on others can be ignored
And yet you seem to believe that dawdlers who want to impose `their' speed `limit', on others road users who wish to travel legally at the posted limit is acceptable? Strange thatThere is a key difference here, in that those who want to travel at the posted limit don't adversely affect the progress of the dawdler, but dawdlers `do adversely affect the progress of those who wish to travel at the posted limit .
Why anyone would want to be so selfish and bl**dy minded, as to want to impede the perfectly legal progress of other road users is the mystery.
Making reasonable progress used to be essential to good driving. Even public information films encouraged it.
Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
bigothunter said:
Making reasonable progress used to be essential to good driving. Even public information films encouraged it.
Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
Some of us happily accept that the roads are used by different people with differing abilities, in different vehicles and with different motivations and priorities from our own. Driving is like a box of chocolates, or something like that. Some people on this thread sound like they bust a blood vessel every time they go out. Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
Edited by Unreal on Wednesday 10th April 22:19
simon_harris said:
You seem to have interactions with a disproportion number of vehicles with mechanical defects, I wonder what the common denominator is...
The common denominator is that I've been driving a long time, with a lot of miles per year, in many different cars.
and that I notice faults which others don't.
M4cruiser said:
simon_harris said:
You seem to have interactions with a disproportion number of vehicles with mechanical defects, I wonder what the common denominator is...
The common denominator is that I've been driving a long time, with a lot of miles per year, in many different cars.and that I notice faults which others don't.
Do you actually maintain your cars properly yourself?
Foss62 said:
How did you cope when LGVs were limited to 40 (as they still are in Scotland)?
Apart from the A9 of course where the limit was raised to 50 after Tesco lorries were generating huge queues by doing 39mph. The A9 of course, between Perth and Inverness, even on the single cariageway sections is not typical. Low gradients and no sharp bends.The 50 limit works far better.
As for doing 50 average. My average would have been around 60 between Tyndrum and Ballachuillish last week around 35 miles. Light traffic. I was aiming for an indicated 66 and was only held up for more than a mile once.
This slow driver thing really is a thing! Seems to have if you pardon the pun gained momentum in the last year or so. Where I live you do onto a main A road on my commute and typically I'll pull out (it's a 40) and quickly get on the back of someone that's doing 30. It happens almost every day and is incredibly annoying. Don't get me started on the morons that do 50 on the motorway!
Monkeylegend said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please explain what is wrong with someone wishing to travel (legally) at the UK's posted speed limits.
Nothing.However there is something wrong with you wanting to dictate how everyone else drives so you don't get held up or made late for something or cannot always travel at a speed to suit you.
In my previous life as I have already mentioned, I drove 95kish miles a year for 15 years taking and picking up people to and from airports, and do you know what, in all that time I never had a customer miss a flight or never failed to be there when they arrived back.
That's because I was sensible and didn't expect everyone to get out of my way or drive at every single speed limit just to suit me so made allowances to ensure I got to where I needed to get in time. It's not hard to do if you adopt a bit of common sense about your travels.
We share the roads with many millions of other drivers and the sort of situations you keep going on about were and still are few and far between in my experience and I suspect the experience of the majority.
The issue you have is one of control and expecting everyone else to defer to your needs, not to hold you up, not to make you late, not to get in your way, travel at the speed you want them to travel at, and if they don't to hand in their licence.
Guess what, the world doesn't work like that.
You are clearly the sort who get's worked up about every minor inconvenience, probably cause a bit of road rage because you can't get your own way, and that is coming across very clearly in your postings on this thread.
If anything it is people like you who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving licence.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 10th April 12:29
It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
Pan Pan Pan said:
If you dawdled on your driving test, you would not even have a driving license in the first place. So your `view' of driving is wrong from the very start.
It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
100% on the money.It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
GlobalRacer said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
If you dawdled on your driving test, you would not even have a driving license in the first place. So your `view' of driving is wrong from the very start.
It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
100% on the way to a heart attack.It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Monkeylegend said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please explain what is wrong with someone wishing to travel (legally) at the UK's posted speed limits.
Nothing.However there is something wrong with you wanting to dictate how everyone else drives so you don't get held up or made late for something or cannot always travel at a speed to suit you.
In my previous life as I have already mentioned, I drove 95kish miles a year for 15 years taking and picking up people to and from airports, and do you know what, in all that time I never had a customer miss a flight or never failed to be there when they arrived back.
That's because I was sensible and didn't expect everyone to get out of my way or drive at every single speed limit just to suit me so made allowances to ensure I got to where I needed to get in time. It's not hard to do if you adopt a bit of common sense about your travels.
We share the roads with many millions of other drivers and the sort of situations you keep going on about were and still are few and far between in my experience and I suspect the experience of the majority.
The issue you have is one of control and expecting everyone else to defer to your needs, not to hold you up, not to make you late, not to get in your way, travel at the speed you want them to travel at, and if they don't to hand in their licence.
Guess what, the world doesn't work like that.
You are clearly the sort who get's worked up about every minor inconvenience, probably cause a bit of road rage because you can't get your own way, and that is coming across very clearly in your postings on this thread.
If anything it is people like you who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving licence.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Wednesday 10th April 12:29
It is those who seek to impede the journeys of others, who have a freakish need to exercise control over others .
If you are on a road all by yourself, you can drive at any speed you like. as stated earlier, you can even go backwards if you want to, and that will not be a problem.
However the moment you are on a road with other road users, you have a duty to drive in a way which will not unnecessarily impede their journeys.
Anyone who cannot control their vehicle, so that they drive to the posted limits, would fail a driving test. Driving at the posted limits, and `then' dawdling, once obtaining a license, is even more perverse, because it shows that you `can' drive in a manner that does not unnecessarily impede the legal progress of others. but that once having obtained a license you `choose' not to.
It is therefore persons like you, who should not be allowed the privilege of having a driving license.
You seem to have double standards, where you believe it is OK for a dawdling driver to impede the progress of other road users around them, but it is somehow not OK for a driver, to expect driver of the vehicle in front, to travel at the posted limits where traffic, road, and weather conditions allow.
If a person cannot cope with the posted limits, deemed suitable, by the government and roads authorities, they would not pass a driving test, and should seriously consider whether they are suited to driving on public roads at all. Particularly so, if their health, eyesight, or the condition of their vehicle is below legal minimums.
M4cruiser said:
simon_harris said:
You seem to have interactions with a disproportion number of vehicles with mechanical defects, I wonder what the common denominator is...
The common denominator is that I've been driving a long time, with a lot of miles per year, in many different cars.and that I notice faults which others don't.
if you are so nervous about traveling at the speed limit or the potential for mechanical failure I once again kindly suggest that perhaps driving is not for you.
irc said:
Foss62 said:
How did you cope when LGVs were limited to 40 (as they still are in Scotland)?
Apart from the A9 of course where the limit was raised to 50 after Tesco lorries were generating huge queues by doing 39mph. The A9 of course, between Perth and Inverness, even on the single cariageway sections is not typical. Low gradients and no sharp bends.The 50 limit works far better.
As for doing 50 average. My average would have been around 60 between Tyndrum and Ballachuillish last week around 35 miles. Light traffic. I was aiming for an indicated 66 and was only held up for more than a mile once.
Some on this thread would consider I spent the day 'dawdling' when they see my average speed, but I never held anyone up all day and was still quicker than 90% of traffic, despite never approaching the legal 'limit'. This thread has been an eye opener for me. Things must be dreadful in England if it is as described by some, yet some don't seem to experience the problems, or anger others do? It surely must he geographical. It is also interesting how some perceive driving standards and what constitutes a good, safe driver. This perhaps isn't thst surprising actually, I can remember a similar thread complaining about roundabout etiquette and some of the claims made about how people had been taught to use a roundabout were wildly different and frankly shocking, yet those who thought they were right were unshakeable in their belief.
For me, it's live and let live, each to their own. I have driven @50miles this morning, beautiful weather, chose to sit around 80mph, no issues, not held up by anyone although I was one of the faster drivers on the dual carriageway. If the road had been busier and full of irritable commuters, I'd have knocked 20mph off that speed and sat and watched the world go by. I want to enjoy driving my car, and manage to do so every day. I look forward to every single drive, and feel sad so many are having this taken from them or have the personality type that sees them triggered by certain things and then spend miles in a rage, dangerous for them and others. These are public roads, paid for by public coffers so can be used by the public. Do these people get similarly irritated by pedestrians who dawdle whilst they stride manfully from a to b. Slow runners on their parkrun, people training at their own pace in a gym, cycling slowly in a cycle lane? We all operate at different paces, and taking the choice to do so out of our hands is draconian and oppressive.
Chill our people, there is a wonderful world at your doorway. I'm off out for a slow walk with my dogs, then off to the gym, then, hell, I'm going for a drive...and I've not decided where I'm going, nor how fast I'll travel. But I'll enjoy it.
vonhosen said:
Have you ever been a DVSA driving examiner?
I assume his driving philosophy was a bit different at one time or he would have been unlikely to even pass a test. My daughter passed her test a couple of weeks ago, she didn't mention anything about always having to accelerate as rapidly as possible to the posted limits and then prioritising staying at those limits over everything else. I imagine such a strategy would leave the examiner terrified and feeling sick.biggbn said:
irc said:
Foss62 said:
How did you cope when LGVs were limited to 40 (as they still are in Scotland)?
Apart from the A9 of course where the limit was raised to 50 after Tesco lorries were generating huge queues by doing 39mph. The A9 of course, between Perth and Inverness, even on the single cariageway sections is not typical. Low gradients and no sharp bends.The 50 limit works far better.
As for doing 50 average. My average would have been around 60 between Tyndrum and Ballachuillish last week around 35 miles. Light traffic. I was aiming for an indicated 66 and was only held up for more than a mile once.
Some on this thread would consider I spent the day 'dawdling' when they see my average speed, but I never held anyone up all day and was still quicker than 90% of traffic, despite never approaching the legal 'limit'. This thread has been an eye opener for me. Things must be dreadful in England if it is as described by some, yet some don't seem to experience the problems, or anger others do? It surely must he geographical. It is also interesting how some perceive driving standards and what constitutes a good, safe driver. This perhaps isn't thst surprising actually, I can remember a similar thread complaining about roundabout etiquette and some of the claims made about how people had been taught to use a roundabout were wildly different and frankly shocking, yet those who thought they were right were unshakeable in their belief.
For me, it's live and let live, each to their own. I have driven @50miles this morning, beautiful weather, chose to sit around 80mph, no issues, not held up by anyone although I was one of the faster drivers on the dual carriageway. If the road had been busier and full of irritable commuters, I'd have knocked 20mph off that speed and sat and watched the world go by. I want to enjoy driving my car, and manage to do so every day. I look forward to every single drive, and feel sad so many are having this taken from them or have the personality type that sees them triggered by certain things and then spend miles in a rage, dangerous for them and others. These are public roads, paid for by public coffers so can be used by the public. Do these people get similarly irritated by pedestrians who dawdle whilst they stride manfully from a to b. Slow runners on their parkrun, people training at their own pace in a gym, cycling slowly in a cycle lane? We all operate at different paces, and taking the choice to do so out of our hands is draconian and oppressive.
Chill our people, there is a wonderful world at your doorway. I'm off out for a slow walk with my dogs, then off to the gym, then, hell, I'm going for a drive...and I've not decided where I'm going, nor how fast I'll travel. But I'll enjoy it.
I think for the most part what the complaining "team" want are drivers that pay attention to their surrounds and drive in a manner which is considerate to other drivers on the road, the defending "team" just want to be able to drive how they want and not be bothered.
the two sides really are not that far apart and just like in the rest of life if everyone was a little more considerate of those around them there would be far fewer issues.
bigothunter said:
Making reasonable progress used to be essential to good driving. Even public information films encouraged it.
Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
I actually got a minor on my HGV test for ‘not making sufficient progress’ down a country road. Culture has changed now. Dumbing down with emphasis on slow speeds has endorsed those who prefer to dawdle. They have gained credibility and confidence. There's plenty of examples of those who support slow progress on this thread.
As Vision Zero takes hold, the union of dawdlers will gain strength. Can't ignore the prospect that we are doomed
Unreal said:
Some of us happily accept that the roads are used by different people with differing abilities, in different vehicles and with different motivations and priorities from our own.
Yes but those of us who have been driving enthusiastically for the last 30 years can see a huge changeI used to regularly get in a convoy of fast moving cars on the motorway - that hasn't happened for 15 years
I also used to sit happily at 120 on deserted sections and 99 in general without much fear of a ban - that was in a 1983 car - yet with all the better tyres and tech I generally cruise at GPS 77 now to avoid points and am still one of the faster vehicles on the motorway !
When discussing speed on here - mention 100+ on an NSL and you'd think you were discussing stamping on kittens - presumably most only use first and second gear enthusiastically
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