An epidemic of insanely slow drivers
Discussion
KTMsm said:
Lester H said:
Just re-read this thread since posting early on. I’m in an area which estate agents love to call semi rural. Yes, if you set off at the crack of dawn, there are still opportunities for ‘ real’ driving. However outside of this, there is just so much traffic, house building and road works that it just becomes easier to follow rather than ‘ drive’ .Hence you get into a slower mode. So, a lot of drivers have not chosen to be slow, they have just become resigned to it ,to avoid stress.
It's why I took up motorcycling - there aren't many places a 150bhp bike can't overtake 
Giantt said:
Yeah,think many of the bikers who traverse A686 think that as well, between Easter n October,hence walls,fences n hedges along the route patched up where people have gone through
That tends to be sports bike riders who ride flat outI just sit a bit over the limit and squirt past the mobile chicanes without any drama
Pit Pony said:
119 said:
Speed limits are a maximum, not a target.
Going over them may not be safe, but then again it might be safe. Unfortunately if you reduce them for safety, people start to assume that the speed limit is safe.
bigothunter said:
Pit Pony said:
119 said:
Speed limits are a maximum, not a target.
Going over them may not be safe, but then again it might be safe. Unfortunately if you reduce them for safety, people start to assume that the speed limit is safe.
My father-in-law has become an incredibly slow driver in the last few years. Ten years ago he was ~60 and had a small car. He knew all the rat runs and shortcuts and drove at decent pace, taking any opportunity to get into gaps in traffic, etc.
Now he is ~70, has a bigger car and a small handful of familiar routes. Anything beyond these routes is some sort of journey into the beyond for him, with my MIL having to provide all the navigation. He misses exists with three of us in the car shouting "left, turn left, LEFT HERE" at him.
He also drives at a much slower pace. My wife has asked him, gently, why he has been doing 35 mph on a 50 mph road. Motorways are tackled at 55 mph and roundabouts are negotiated at walking pace. I've been out in the car once, and he took a roundabout so slowly that he enraged the driver behind us. This was met with a snarky "I can drive even slower if I want to!" from FIL. His skills have faded at the same pace that he has moved into progressively bigger vehicles.
A lot of slow-driven cars round here are full of similarly aged people, staring straight ahead as they do 35 mph on a NSL, oblivious to the tailback behind them.
My own father drives with a weird mixture of the sedate and the ratty. There was some sort of brief oil crisis in the early 2000s and, to save fuel, my Dad started driving motorways at a religious 56 mph. The optimal speed for ICE-powered vehicles (according to Willy Messerschmitt circa 1932, probably) and he never fully sped up again after this brief debacle.
Now he is ~70, has a bigger car and a small handful of familiar routes. Anything beyond these routes is some sort of journey into the beyond for him, with my MIL having to provide all the navigation. He misses exists with three of us in the car shouting "left, turn left, LEFT HERE" at him.
He also drives at a much slower pace. My wife has asked him, gently, why he has been doing 35 mph on a 50 mph road. Motorways are tackled at 55 mph and roundabouts are negotiated at walking pace. I've been out in the car once, and he took a roundabout so slowly that he enraged the driver behind us. This was met with a snarky "I can drive even slower if I want to!" from FIL. His skills have faded at the same pace that he has moved into progressively bigger vehicles.
A lot of slow-driven cars round here are full of similarly aged people, staring straight ahead as they do 35 mph on a NSL, oblivious to the tailback behind them.
My own father drives with a weird mixture of the sedate and the ratty. There was some sort of brief oil crisis in the early 2000s and, to save fuel, my Dad started driving motorways at a religious 56 mph. The optimal speed for ICE-powered vehicles (according to Willy Messerschmitt circa 1932, probably) and he never fully sped up again after this brief debacle.
NapierDeltic said:
My Dad started driving motorways at a religious 56 mph. The optimal speed for ICE-powered vehicles (according to Willy Messerschmitt circa 1932, probably) and he never fully sped up again after this brief debacle.
I wonder where this 56mph thing comes from. The USA set all highway speed limits to 55mph in response to the 1970s energy crisis accordingly, but it's not true. The optimal speed in terms of fuel consumption/distance must be the lowest RPMs where the car will still drive in top gear. So 25mph perhaps? But that's not optimal in terms of getting anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. So for me the optimal speed for an ICE-powered vehicle is about 90mph and perhaps 60 for an EV where speed kills range and filling up is not a quick affair.LunarOne said:
NapierDeltic said:
My Dad started driving motorways at a religious 56 mph. The optimal speed for ICE-powered vehicles (according to Willy Messerschmitt circa 1932, probably) and he never fully sped up again after this brief debacle.
I wonder where this 56mph thing comes from. The USA set all highway speed limits to 55mph in response to the 1970s energy crisis accordingly, but it's not true. The optimal speed in terms of fuel consumption/distance must be the lowest RPMs where the car will still drive in top gear. So 25mph perhaps? But that's not optimal in terms of getting anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. So for me the optimal speed for an ICE-powered vehicle is about 90mph and perhaps 60 for an EV where speed kills range and filling up is not a quick affair.In my experience, I find 55-60 to be a sweet spot where you’re in top gear and have enough momentum to get you up most hills without having to change down. My DSG prefers this speed and low to mid 50s is possible in my 3.0 diesel. The bonus is also making decent progress.
Even on the motorway, cruising at 65-70 mp, I can get low 50s mpg. The key really is to maintain a smooth speed - that means changing lanes quite frequently to pass slower vehicles in lane 1 and often 2 and 3, and to let others pass and get on with their day - but then I prefer that to being one of those monolane MLM drivers.
If I’m stuck behind a dawdler driving at 40mph. My car has go drive at a lower gear and lower still for inclines which is a bit frustrating. So whilst higher mpg at 40mph may be technically true on a rolling road, it’s less so on in the real world in a car that needs to change up and down frequently to respond to changing gradients at a speed too close to a gear change threshold.
I don’t think the dawdlers get this. If more was said about the real world benefits of 55-60mph cruising (when permitted of course) then maybe they would pick up the pace a little.
Even on the motorway, cruising at 65-70 mp, I can get low 50s mpg. The key really is to maintain a smooth speed - that means changing lanes quite frequently to pass slower vehicles in lane 1 and often 2 and 3, and to let others pass and get on with their day - but then I prefer that to being one of those monolane MLM drivers.
If I’m stuck behind a dawdler driving at 40mph. My car has go drive at a lower gear and lower still for inclines which is a bit frustrating. So whilst higher mpg at 40mph may be technically true on a rolling road, it’s less so on in the real world in a car that needs to change up and down frequently to respond to changing gradients at a speed too close to a gear change threshold.
I don’t think the dawdlers get this. If more was said about the real world benefits of 55-60mph cruising (when permitted of course) then maybe they would pick up the pace a little.
Today, I was the third car in a slow moving convoy of cars. When I first caught up, I was in a 60 zone, and the convoy was moving at 30 mph. Then when the 30 mph zone arrived, the convoy slowed to 17 mph.
Then a 20 zone approached, with a couple of tiny little 'bumps' on the road to signify the limit change. The car at the head of the convoy slowed down to almost a complete halt, and went over them at 1 mph; these are bumps that can easily be done at almost any speed, in any car.
Then the car in front turned off, and I then followed the dawdler at speeds of under 10 mph in this 20 zone, I must admit I was quite frustrated by this and blasted past before settling back down to 20.
And the car that was responsible for these obscenely slow speeds? A Merc AMG A45
Then a 20 zone approached, with a couple of tiny little 'bumps' on the road to signify the limit change. The car at the head of the convoy slowed down to almost a complete halt, and went over them at 1 mph; these are bumps that can easily be done at almost any speed, in any car.
Then the car in front turned off, and I then followed the dawdler at speeds of under 10 mph in this 20 zone, I must admit I was quite frustrated by this and blasted past before settling back down to 20.
And the car that was responsible for these obscenely slow speeds? A Merc AMG A45
popeyewhite said:
Quite often a little 'nudge' closer, suggesting a plan to overtake will spur these snails on a bit. Drop back and their speed's increased by 10 mph 
That kind of behaviour makes me do the opposite: drive too close to my cars bumper and I'm slowly decelerating. By all means, overtake, I'll not increase my speed, I'll move further to the left to assist, but act like a dick and I'll go even slower before returning to my original speed. 
Obnoxious a
holes who think everyone must always drive at the maximum speed limits and/or think Public roads are their race-tracks deserve zero respect. NapierDeltic said:
... His skills have faded at the same pace that he has moved into progressively bigger vehicles.
I do think the increase in average size, particularly width, of cars doesn't help this. There are so many places where two cars used to be able to comfortably pass but now feel noticeably tighter (and I've only been driving 20years). See also drivers positioning themselves over the line on narrowish roads but still with 3 feet to their nearside.Edited by RECr on Saturday 27th April 13:45
YorkshireStu said:
popeyewhite said:
Quite often a little 'nudge' closer, suggesting a plan to overtake will spur these snails on a bit. Drop back and their speed's increased by 10 mph
That kind of behaviour makes me do the opposite: drive too close to my cars bumper and I'm slowly decelerating. By all means, overtake, I'll not increase my speed, I'll move further to the left to assist, but act like a dick and I'll go even slower before returning to my original speed. Obnoxious a
holes who think everyone must always drive at the maximum speed limits and/or think Public roads are their race-tracks deserve zero respect. bigothunter said:
LunarOne said:
NapierDeltic said:
My Dad started driving motorways at a religious 56 mph. The optimal speed for ICE-powered vehicles (according to Willy Messerschmitt circa 1932, probably) and he never fully sped up again after this brief debacle.
I wonder where this 56mph thing comes from. The USA set all highway speed limits to 55mph in response to the 1970s energy crisis accordingly, but it's not true. The optimal speed in terms of fuel consumption/distance must be the lowest RPMs where the car will still drive in top gear. So 25mph perhaps? But that's not optimal in terms of getting anywhere in a reasonable amount of time. So for me the optimal speed for an ICE-powered vehicle is about 90mph and perhaps 60 for an EV where speed kills range and filling up is not a quick affair.I sometimes find it quite entertaining witnessing roads full of dawdlers / "safety" conscious drivers, because you can almost always tell those around them who are sat waiting like coiled springs for any opportunity to leave them behind. "Any moment now...." can often lead to some interesting situations which, if I'm honest, can alleviate the boredom of being stuck behind them in the first place. I see it happen in 20 mph zones quite often (hardly surprising given some are now A roads) but also in 30 zones, 50 zones....basically anywhere someone isn't really bothered about making progress and others are.
And of course, as with any HGV having to pull out to pass the ever-increasing number of sub 55 mph motorway dawdlers, there are numerous risks involved. And I think that's one thing these dawdling types may have sleepless nights over; the fact they contribute to increased risk, which is clearly evident and undeniable.
I have absolutely no doubt that some of those coiled springs would have happily remained near or only slightly above posted limits, but now they feel the need to go way beyond them just to remove the blockage.
I have also yet to see a single police car pull someone over for breaking a 20 mph limit in London. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but from what I hear, the police couldn't care less because they rarely stick to those limits, either.
And of course, as with any HGV having to pull out to pass the ever-increasing number of sub 55 mph motorway dawdlers, there are numerous risks involved. And I think that's one thing these dawdling types may have sleepless nights over; the fact they contribute to increased risk, which is clearly evident and undeniable.
I have absolutely no doubt that some of those coiled springs would have happily remained near or only slightly above posted limits, but now they feel the need to go way beyond them just to remove the blockage.
I have also yet to see a single police car pull someone over for breaking a 20 mph limit in London. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but from what I hear, the police couldn't care less because they rarely stick to those limits, either.
LunarOne said:
But where does this come from Big OT?
From here: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-relationsh...Here's another relevant characteristic - map of BSFC
Edited by bigothunter on Saturday 27th April 23:11
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