RE: New Mercedes-AMG GT 43 arrives with 421hp
Discussion
Chestrockwell said:
Well thats just it isnt it, im comparing it to my M240i which in 1 series form, is a direct competitor to the MK7 Golf R (same engine as MK8) and I think anybody who drives both back to back will prefer the BMW because of the engine.
This AMG GT also has 2.0 Turbo, albeit with a bit more power that a simple remap on any EA888 engine can match.
I’m firmly in the Golf R camp when it comes to the M140/240i vs Golf R debate and this is as a BMW M2 owner! This AMG GT also has 2.0 Turbo, albeit with a bit more power that a simple remap on any EA888 engine can match.
The M-lites are good but the Golf R is just better in every area especially as a road car.
Suppose it’s the interesting question every potential buyer must ask of how much of other areas must you sacrifice just to have a bigger engine even if it’s not necessarily faster.
GeniusOfLove said:
biggbn said:
This was my point earlier. Why have an unnecessarily big, heavy engine in a drivers car when a lighter one will enhance the driving experience? Perhaps people demand bigger engines for different reasons....? Its all a bit 'couldn't afford a 911?' jibe at Boxster owners, isn't it?
That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
Genuinely not asking to be a PH knobber, but have you had any cars with a good 8 or 6 (or 12!) cylinder engine?That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
On paper figures for these heavily boosted four pots look comparable to older and larger engines, and they're a great way to get big power into a car that otherwise couldn't fit a larger engine, but they are utter doglogs to use compared to a V8 or even i6 with the same power. They're only really comparable from a top trumps "well the power/torque/acceleration figures match" way, they loose so much "feel" that was always part of the appeal and value proposition of expensive cars.
fflump said:
I'd agree with this. I wonder what the torque curve is like compared to a decent V8. Powerful small engines need working far harder to make decent progress and for all it's sports car claims it isn't some lightweight track weapon or hot hatch set up for red line motoring.
Torque curve will be the same as all of them, flat as a fart for a little bit, huge surge of torque to make it feel like a monster, pancake flat as the revs build, then it'll die away from 5500RPM or so. It's cuckbox will be shuffling through it's many ratios to keep it on the boil as it drones and farts away with maybe the odd contrived little pop to make pogs think it's a good engine noise.For what it's worth I can't imagine the engineers at Mercedes are any more enthusiastic about these powertrains than we are, these were the guys putting 5.5litre V8s into SLKs and 6.3 litre V8s that revved out to over 7k RPM in everything not that long ago. They know a boosted four pot is pants whatever the top trumps figures say.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Wednesday 20th March 12:34
Leveret said:
Jeez - prickly lot on here! Don't know the difference between a suggestion and an observation? Don't know a DB9 has four seats? (but only drives two wheels - as does the heavy old barge S -for steel?-600). Sport quattro W12 no way a barge - read the spec!
It's is a very bizarre observation to make. You can get an MX5 for even less.DB9 does, indeed, have 4 seats. I have sat in the back once, it wasn't comfortable
GeniusOfLove said:
biggbn said:
This was my point earlier. Why have an unnecessarily big, heavy engine in a drivers car when a lighter one will enhance the driving experience? Perhaps people demand bigger engines for different reasons....? Its all a bit 'couldn't afford a 911?' jibe at Boxster owners, isn't it?
That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
Genuinely not asking to be a PH knobber, but have you had any cars with a good 8 or 6 (or 12!) cylinder engine?That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
On paper figures for these heavily boosted four pots look comparable to older and larger engines, and they're a great way to get big power into a car that otherwise couldn't fit a larger engine, but they are utter doglogs to use compared to a V8 or even i6 with the same power. They're only really comparable from a top trumps "well the power/torque/acceleration figures match" way, they loose so much "feel" that was always part of the appeal and value proposition of expensive cars.
, I love the sound of a six, eight or twelve although triples, fives and tens are my favourite sounding engines. I'm not suggesting for one minute that fours replace the bigger engines, just that in some applications they make sense. I'm in a minority, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but engine size and configuration really doesn't matter to me, it's how well it does it's job. J4CKO said:
Had an M135i and a Golf 7 R, both a bit meh as drivers cars out of the box.
I wouldn’t disagree with you there, I never stated they’re drivers cars though.I’m referring to the 3.0 lump in my BMW, you can feel the engine, feel the presence of it, it’s a nice feeling. I’m not sure how the GT43 would feel with a 2.0 for over 100k despite the power output
Is there any better proof that we somehow entered the wrong time line for performance cars when looking at Mercedes' "small GT" offering in the last decade?
In a decade they went from jamming a hand crafted DOHC 420BHP 5.5 V8 with barely a fag packet to spare entire side into a SLK in the form of the last SLK55, to eventually The farty, laggy, generally a bit disappointing when in a A class 2.0T 4 pot getting bolted in along some some over eager drill motors as the claims that they have created a premium, sporty GT car.
No Mercedes. You haven't. You've completed another car that is a beacon for image chasers and posers whilst simultaneously creating a product that alienates proper enthusiasts.
In a decade they went from jamming a hand crafted DOHC 420BHP 5.5 V8 with barely a fag packet to spare entire side into a SLK in the form of the last SLK55, to eventually The farty, laggy, generally a bit disappointing when in a A class 2.0T 4 pot getting bolted in along some some over eager drill motors as the claims that they have created a premium, sporty GT car.
No Mercedes. You haven't. You've completed another car that is a beacon for image chasers and posers whilst simultaneously creating a product that alienates proper enthusiasts.
Leveret said:
You could also pick up a pre March 2006 A8 SWB sport quattro with a reliable 450hp W12 that won't need rebuilding - and has variable valve timing-and £395 tax - for a mere £10k, if you can actually find one (only about 60 in the UK - and mine's not for sale!)
No, the W12 won't need rebuilding... Not because its reliable mind, but because if it starts to score the bores like they've been known to do with as little as 50k you're best off going for a replacement engine as the cost of sleeve and bore on 12 cylinders and rebuild or rebuilding inside a Bentley block is absolutely immense. Never mind, techs like me that have worked this nugget in a workshop environment can get an engine in and out fairly quickly on the count that they have to be regularly removed for replacements of such exotic components as starter motors and cam shaft sensors...
mrclav said:
D4rez said:
ZX10R NIN said:
No one is going to pay that money for a four pot GT, when you can get alternatives with proper engines in them.
True enough… for nowFor reference - to own a new Toyota Camry hybrid in Singapore now costs £151k. Yes, you read that right.
https://news.sky.com/story/drivers-in-singapore-no...
Love the car despite the smaller engine; I think that it looks great and should be a decent steer given the weight savings.
Cracking colour, too.
stuart100 said:
I have grown used to AMG 55's, 63's, 65s, and 73s. I'm okay with the 53's in the E Class, and the 45s in the A Class. But a top tier model like this with a 43? Reminds me of Clarkson saying about Boxsters and "life hasn't quite turned out quite as well as you expected it to"...
What’s a new 2 litre Boxster these days £55K. Don’t know where you live but looking at car ownership round here life hasn’t turned out quite as well as they expected for 95% of drivers.Franco5 said:
stuart100 said:
I have grown used to AMG 55's, 63's, 65s, and 73s. I'm okay with the 53's in the E Class, and the 45s in the A Class. But a top tier model like this with a 43? Reminds me of Clarkson saying about Boxsters and "life hasn't quite turned out quite as well as you expected it to"...
What’s a new 2 litre Boxster these days £55K. Don’t know where you live but looking at car ownership round here life hasn’t turned out quite as well as they expected for 95% of drivers.biggbn said:
GeniusOfLove said:
biggbn said:
This was my point earlier. Why have an unnecessarily big, heavy engine in a drivers car when a lighter one will enhance the driving experience? Perhaps people demand bigger engines for different reasons....? Its all a bit 'couldn't afford a 911?' jibe at Boxster owners, isn't it?
That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
Genuinely not asking to be a PH knobber, but have you had any cars with a good 8 or 6 (or 12!) cylinder engine?That said, there ARE people for whom a six or eight is genuinely preferable because of the noise adding to the experience and that's cool.
On paper figures for these heavily boosted four pots look comparable to older and larger engines, and they're a great way to get big power into a car that otherwise couldn't fit a larger engine, but they are utter doglogs to use compared to a V8 or even i6 with the same power. They're only really comparable from a top trumps "well the power/torque/acceleration figures match" way, they loose so much "feel" that was always part of the appeal and value proposition of expensive cars.
, I love the sound of a six, eight or twelve although triples, fives and tens are my favourite sounding engines. I'm not suggesting for one minute that fours replace the bigger engines, just that in some applications they make sense. I'm in a minority, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but engine size and configuration really doesn't matter to me, it's how well it does it's job. 
Maxym said:
What would you rather have, a four cylinder ICE version or electric? I know what I’d choose.
A slightly used one with the V8, which is the decision many people will make. I can’t see the last V8s of any car model depreciating too much to be honest, as everyone’s going to hang on to them rather than trade for a 4-cyl. As others have said, this car does make sense in certain markets where taxes make it less than half the price of the 63, but it would be a really hard sell at £120k or so in the UK - which is why M-B UK can’t be arsed with it.
TheWokeBlob said:
Leveret said:
You could also pick up a pre March 2006 A8 SWB sport quattro with a reliable 450hp W12 that won't need rebuilding - and has variable valve timing-and £395 tax - for a mere £10k, if you can actually find one (only about 60 in the UK - and mine's not for sale!)
No, the W12 won't need rebuilding... Not because its reliable mind, but because if it starts to score the bores like they've been known to do with as little as 50k you're best off going for a replacement engine as the cost of sleeve and bore on 12 cylinders and rebuild or rebuilding inside a Bentley block is absolutely immense. Never mind, techs like me that have worked this nugget in a workshop environment can get an engine in and out fairly quickly on the count that they have to be regularly removed for replacements of such exotic components as starter motors and cam shaft sensors...
Sandpit Steve said:
Maxym said:
What would you rather have, a four cylinder ICE version or electric? I know what I’d choose.
A slightly used one with the V8, which is the decision many people will make. I can’t see the last V8s of any car model depreciating too much to be honest, as everyone’s going to hang on to them rather than trade for a 4-cyl. As others have said, this car does make sense in certain markets where taxes make it less than half the price of the 63, but it would be a really hard sell at £120k or so in the UK - which is why M-B UK can’t be arsed with it.
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