downgrading car lifestyle
Discussion
Networkgeek said:
I must admit, I'm terrible when it comes to selling cars. At present, I have -
BMW M2
Renault Clio RS200 Cup
VW T5 camper van
I often think about selling the M2, then I look at Motorway / WBAC etc and immediately change my mind. I also don't know what car I would replace the M2 with. It's an utterly fantastic daily (minus the annoying DCT gearbox), the cold start will drastically improve any rubbish day at work.
I've looked at a new BMW 118i, and it surprised me how good boring cars have become, but I can't see myself owning something so dull, even if the running costs will be much cheaper.
Something will have to go this year, but it will be to free up cash, instead of buying something new.
Look at what the M2s are for sale at on Auto Trader and the like, not what WBAC want to pull your pants down at. WBAC etc is not a valuation service, it is a place for people to lazily sell cars and accept up to half the value.BMW M2
Renault Clio RS200 Cup
VW T5 camper van
I often think about selling the M2, then I look at Motorway / WBAC etc and immediately change my mind. I also don't know what car I would replace the M2 with. It's an utterly fantastic daily (minus the annoying DCT gearbox), the cold start will drastically improve any rubbish day at work.
I've looked at a new BMW 118i, and it surprised me how good boring cars have become, but I can't see myself owning something so dull, even if the running costs will be much cheaper.
Something will have to go this year, but it will be to free up cash, instead of buying something new.
I did the same with motorbikes.
Downgraded a 900cc 109bhp street bike to a 125 9,5bhp pizza bike.
The best liberation was not caring about washing it and keeping it looking good.
The change from 30mpg to 120mpg was also quite nice.
Rear tyre was £25 compared to £180.
Did I die a little inside?
Probably...
But I do remember feeling angry after washing the 900 and then having it rain the next morning.
Downgraded a 900cc 109bhp street bike to a 125 9,5bhp pizza bike.
The best liberation was not caring about washing it and keeping it looking good.
The change from 30mpg to 120mpg was also quite nice.
Rear tyre was £25 compared to £180.
Did I die a little inside?
Probably...
But I do remember feeling angry after washing the 900 and then having it rain the next morning.
If you like cars, there's always an itch to scratch, something different to try, a different approach and man maths.
I do circa 18k miles a year so not depreciation friendly, so an older fuel efficient car would be best. But then I do 18k miles a year, so I want some tech and some luxury to make my 45 mile commute not become a ballache.
I had a jag xe s and loved it... but it blew 2 tires on potholed lanes where I live. And whilst the jekyll and hyde personality of switching into sport mode was amazing, you couldn't realistically use the power for more than a few seconds and it all felt a bit anti social unless I found myself in certain locations.
The £1500 2004 honda crv I had for a few months as a stop gap in covid was liberating. I loved the feeling of having a cheap car that I could throw away in an instant but also spend a bit of cash on to maintain it l. Fuel economy was woeful,though!
Currently have a polestar 2 because it was (relatively) cheap. Pay £430 a month for 16k a year, no tax, in warranty, save about £150 month on fuel and its got 400bhp and loaded with great tech, harmon kardon stereo etc. But it feels too nice, so I think il go back to a circa £8k diesel next.
And I have an austin healey sprite for fun that I've owned about 2 years. It's ex race car so quite quick, and certainly feels it in such a small, light and unsafe package. I enjoy tinkering on it and it shouldn't lose money (not counting what i soend on it of ocurse). Plan is to keep it forever and slowly improve it into something nice as the kids begin to fly the nest- but there's always an itch to scratch!
I do circa 18k miles a year so not depreciation friendly, so an older fuel efficient car would be best. But then I do 18k miles a year, so I want some tech and some luxury to make my 45 mile commute not become a ballache.
I had a jag xe s and loved it... but it blew 2 tires on potholed lanes where I live. And whilst the jekyll and hyde personality of switching into sport mode was amazing, you couldn't realistically use the power for more than a few seconds and it all felt a bit anti social unless I found myself in certain locations.
The £1500 2004 honda crv I had for a few months as a stop gap in covid was liberating. I loved the feeling of having a cheap car that I could throw away in an instant but also spend a bit of cash on to maintain it l. Fuel economy was woeful,though!
Currently have a polestar 2 because it was (relatively) cheap. Pay £430 a month for 16k a year, no tax, in warranty, save about £150 month on fuel and its got 400bhp and loaded with great tech, harmon kardon stereo etc. But it feels too nice, so I think il go back to a circa £8k diesel next.
And I have an austin healey sprite for fun that I've owned about 2 years. It's ex race car so quite quick, and certainly feels it in such a small, light and unsafe package. I enjoy tinkering on it and it shouldn't lose money (not counting what i soend on it of ocurse). Plan is to keep it forever and slowly improve it into something nice as the kids begin to fly the nest- but there's always an itch to scratch!
Edited by covmutley on Friday 22 March 08:02
Mr Tidy said:
I'm not so surprised at the financial hit people are taking as I bought my only nearly new car in 2008, a pre-registered 2007 BMW 123d that had done less than 20 miles.
In 6 and a half years and 81K miles I lost over £15K on it.
But once I realised I didn't need a diesel as I wasn't doing business miles I discovered Straight 6 N/A manual BMWS and haven't looked back.
My teenage BMWs may throw up an unplanned £300/400 bill most years, but I don't mind as they aren't depreciating any more and are so much nicer than the 123d to drive.
Love your flashback to the 80s too.
I bought a 1982 2.8i Capri in 1984 and drove it like a hooligan in SW London, and anywhere else I went really.
Sadly I had to sell it after just a year for a house deposit, but in 1987 I was able to afford another and remember getting the speedo needle to the end of the clock on the M25 - happy days!
I can understand the attraction of an E46 M3 as my current fun car is a Z4M with the same engine which is just sublime.
And a VX220 Turbo must be exciting, just a bit too raw for me nowadays!
In 6 and a half years and 81K miles I lost over £15K on it.
But once I realised I didn't need a diesel as I wasn't doing business miles I discovered Straight 6 N/A manual BMWS and haven't looked back.
My teenage BMWs may throw up an unplanned £300/400 bill most years, but I don't mind as they aren't depreciating any more and are so much nicer than the 123d to drive.
Love your flashback to the 80s too.
I bought a 1982 2.8i Capri in 1984 and drove it like a hooligan in SW London, and anywhere else I went really.
Sadly I had to sell it after just a year for a house deposit, but in 1987 I was able to afford another and remember getting the speedo needle to the end of the clock on the M25 - happy days!
I can understand the attraction of an E46 M3 as my current fun car is a Z4M with the same engine which is just sublime.
And a VX220 Turbo must be exciting, just a bit too raw for me nowadays!
Fantastic Capri memories…..
Any photos of them ?
This was my “ Tweaked “ 72 3000GT, it was the fastest 3 Litre Capri in East London in the early 80s.
We never did find out just who it was that breathed on its engine & gave it negative camber ( SuperSpeed or Broadspeed maybe, as it was sold new in Coventry) , but it would pull 100 in third, 128 @ 5,800 rpm and was Still pulling, but I had to lift off, as it was very unstable @ high speeds, it needed a front spoiler and new shocks etc, which would have transformed it, but I was on the Dole lol.
Note the stoved in off side rear 1/4, this was the result of a multiple high speed spin on a motorway, during which it went up on its 2 left wheels……how it didn’t roll and I’m Still here is a miracle….
Any photos of the 2.8i ?
Edited by SS427 Camaro on Friday 22 March 09:29
keo said:
Mr Tidy said:
In 6 and a half years and 81K miles I lost over £15K on it.
You say over £15k so I don’t know the exact figures. But £15k over 6.5 years is less than £200 a month. I’d say that is pretty good considering it was a new car as well.Do people not expect cars to depreciate? Unless you have something classic that hits an upturn, you'll always lose money on a car as a punter.
Losing just over 2 grand a year is bloody good going in my view......
I bought a year old BMW 5 series for £31k and sold it 65k miles and 4.5 years later for £17k, so £14k in less time than Mr Tidy. I was pretty pleased as Covid price boom had kept it high - my original calculations when I bought it had it in the low teens.
Caddyshack said:
Look at what the M2s are for sale at on Auto Trader and the like, not what WBAC want to pull your pants down at. WBAC etc is not a valuation service, it is a place for people to lazily sell cars and accept up to half the value.
I hear what you're saying, but I hate having to sell cars to the general public. I fully expect to have my pants pulled down by WBAC etc, it's a price to pay to not have to deal with endless test drives / what's your best price bruv / people who don't understand they're buying from a private seller. I've had various moments over the years, the latest last year, when I've sold up and downgraded my car lifestyle. It can be a liberating feeling, depending mainly on how much discretionary time, effort and money you can dedicate to other things.
I think most people who have the ability to change can make the change, so the question is whether it sticks and what the outcome is. In my case the answer is a series of short-lived downgrades that haven't stuck, but there are some mitigations.
Take together, our three current vehicles (Golf GTD, Audi TTS & VW T5) are worth less than one new Golf R - not least because they're 8, 9 & 12 years old respectively. The running costs are higher than one car of course due to repairs, garaging etc - but they all serve a purpose and are easily sold if required.
I've run around a smaller number than the current 3, or in lower grade cars, but it hasn't stuck for more than a year. But equally I know that more expensive or newer cars don't add much utility or joy.
So I think the answer is to choose carefully and be content, rather than to expect permanent additional happiness from either expanding or contracting your car lifestyle commitment.
I think most people who have the ability to change can make the change, so the question is whether it sticks and what the outcome is. In my case the answer is a series of short-lived downgrades that haven't stuck, but there are some mitigations.
Take together, our three current vehicles (Golf GTD, Audi TTS & VW T5) are worth less than one new Golf R - not least because they're 8, 9 & 12 years old respectively. The running costs are higher than one car of course due to repairs, garaging etc - but they all serve a purpose and are easily sold if required.
I've run around a smaller number than the current 3, or in lower grade cars, but it hasn't stuck for more than a year. But equally I know that more expensive or newer cars don't add much utility or joy.
So I think the answer is to choose carefully and be content, rather than to expect permanent additional happiness from either expanding or contracting your car lifestyle commitment.
Every so often I take a look around to see what's out there to potentially replace my Saab 95 which is getting old and cost me a fairly hefty chunk of cash last year.
This is where I always run into the same problem:
I wouldn't mind something a little smaller, but I am absolutely not downgrading a few things, namely power and comfort.
So I want, at minimum: 280bhp/420nm, heated leather, dual zone climate control, ability to smash out 500 miles in one day without feeling like I've been in a massive scrap (I regularly drive in Europe).
Options are a bit limited, with these stipulations in mind.
Jag XE/XF, Alfa Giulia, BMW 3/4 series, Audi S4/5, Merc E-class? All of these have issues AFAICT. And getting into a good recent example of any of them is far from cheap. Needs to be able to be run as a daily, HAS to have rear doors. Not a fan of Audi on the whole, never driven one that I liked enough to buy, for sure. Don't exactly love the Mercs, either.
The £20k-ish any of these options will cost goes a LONG way to keeping the Saab in good order, so, I don't really know what to do! So I keep the Saab another year. 8 so far...
This is where I always run into the same problem:
I wouldn't mind something a little smaller, but I am absolutely not downgrading a few things, namely power and comfort.
So I want, at minimum: 280bhp/420nm, heated leather, dual zone climate control, ability to smash out 500 miles in one day without feeling like I've been in a massive scrap (I regularly drive in Europe).
Options are a bit limited, with these stipulations in mind.
Jag XE/XF, Alfa Giulia, BMW 3/4 series, Audi S4/5, Merc E-class? All of these have issues AFAICT. And getting into a good recent example of any of them is far from cheap. Needs to be able to be run as a daily, HAS to have rear doors. Not a fan of Audi on the whole, never driven one that I liked enough to buy, for sure. Don't exactly love the Mercs, either.
The £20k-ish any of these options will cost goes a LONG way to keeping the Saab in good order, so, I don't really know what to do! So I keep the Saab another year. 8 so far...
Muzzer79 said:
keo said:
Mr Tidy said:
In 6 and a half years and 81K miles I lost over £15K on it.
You say over £15k so I don’t know the exact figures. But £15k over 6.5 years is less than £200 a month. I’d say that is pretty good considering it was a new car as well.Do people not expect cars to depreciate? Unless you have something classic that hits an upturn, you'll always lose money on a car as a punter.
Losing just over 2 grand a year is bloody good going in my view......
I bought a year old BMW 5 series for £31k and sold it 65k miles and 4.5 years later for £17k, so £14k in less time than Mr Tidy. I was pretty pleased as Covid price boom had kept it high - my original calculations when I bought it had it in the low teens.
- Colt diesel bought at 2yrs old and kept for 5 years cost £78/mth in depreciation.
- Alfa Coupe bought at 3yrs old and kept for 8 years cost £83/mth in depreciation.
- Current 370z bought at 7yrs old and have now had it for 4yrs so far and autotrader gives a private sale price which suggests around £21/mth in depreciation.
It's all about how much of a burden the car is on you financially. So often I see Readers Cars threads where I can't quite get my head around how much people spend on their cars relative to their homes. I frequently see adverts for people selling cars that I aspire to own so that they can buy a house. If your hobby is forcing that kind of financial compromise in your life then perhaps downgrading and spending the money elsewhere isn't a bad idea.
Beardo said:
The £20k-ish any of these options will cost goes a LONG way to keeping the Saab in good order, so, I don't really know what to do! So I keep the Saab another year. 8 so far...
The best and bargiest 3L diesel you can find in budget would be my recommendation. I'd be going for an XJ. Dave200 said:
It's all about how much of a burden the car is on you financially. So often I see Readers Cars threads where I can't quite get my head around how much people spend on their cars relative to their homes. I frequently see adverts for people selling cars that I aspire to own so that they can buy a house. If your hobby is forcing that kind of financial compromise in your life then perhaps downgrading and spending the money elsewhere isn't a bad idea.
I have sold cars to fund house purchases.It’s not so much that my hobby is forcing a financial compromise on me, but more the scenario that when things are going well & I have some spare funds I’ll indulge my love of cars. When there is a big event, like a house purchase, and you need to focus all your efforts in one direction why not sell your toy to fund all of the stamp duty & fees, or allow you to borrow a bit less.
Then once you are over the hump, Mortgage stays the same but you are a couple of years down the line & have a promotion say, buy another toy.
Seems straightforward financially to me. Certainly no indication of failure or the hobby causing issues.
Last house purchase I sold watches, bikes & cars.
Netted enough to cover the stamp duty, fees & had £10k spare.
Nice place to be.
SmithCorona said:
The best and bargiest 3L diesel you can find in budget would be my recommendation. I'd be going for an XJ.
Diesel is a bit of a no-go for me - I live in Jersey so the vast majority of my driving is shorter runs and lots of stop-start. The only time the black pump makes sense is when I'm away, but that's not often enough to keep a diesel in proper order...Stick Legs said:
Dave200 said:
It's all about how much of a burden the car is on you financially. So often I see Readers Cars threads where I can't quite get my head around how much people spend on their cars relative to their homes. I frequently see adverts for people selling cars that I aspire to own so that they can buy a house. If your hobby is forcing that kind of financial compromise in your life then perhaps downgrading and spending the money elsewhere isn't a bad idea.
I have sold cars to fund house purchases.It’s not so much that my hobby is forcing a financial compromise on me, but more the scenario that when things are going well & I have some spare funds I’ll indulge my love of cars. When there is a big event, like a house purchase, and you need to focus all your efforts in one direction why not sell your toy to fund all of the stamp duty & fees, or allow you to borrow a bit less.
Then once you are over the hump, Mortgage stays the same but you are a couple of years down the line & have a promotion say, buy another toy.
Seems straightforward financially to me. Certainly no indication of failure or the hobby causing issues.
Last house purchase I sold watches, bikes & cars.
Netted enough to cover the stamp duty, fees & had £10k spare.
Nice place to be.
Dave200 said:
It's all about how much of a burden the car is on you financially. So often I see Readers Cars threads where I can't quite get my head around how much people spend on their cars relative to their homes. I frequently see adverts for people selling cars that I aspire to own so that they can buy a house. If your hobby is forcing that kind of financial compromise in your life then perhaps downgrading and spending the money elsewhere isn't a bad idea.
Depends entirely though, doesnt it. I have 3 kids, and agree with you. But if I was single and with no kids, I would go for a much smaller house and cheaper house and spend far more on cars!
Beardo said:
SmithCorona said:
You could drive around the island in circles to keep the DPF happy?
Alternatively, a Lexus ES.
Alternatively, a Lexus ES.
Maintaining 2k RPM for 30 miles or so might be a bit of a tall order if I want to keep my license!As much as it pains me to admit, I went from a 2017 M2 LCI to a 2014 Seat Leon 1.2 TSI back in 2022. Id had the M2 for just over 3 years and was planning on moving so sold it to free up the cash and pay my mortgage off. House went on the market , interest rates went silly and it never sold. Could have kept the car ....
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