downgrading car lifestyle

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

Fiisch said:

I can picture Dave Ramsey reading this thread and nodding his head vigorously....t.

New cars keep you poor. Wish I had realised this in my 20s rather than getting excited and signing any finance contract put in front of me "because shiny new thing".

I have watched a few of the Dave Ramsey videos on YouTube and the mess some people get themselves into because they have to own (in reality they never own it) the latest new car is crazy.

[7 5 7]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

New cars keep you poor. Wish I had realised this in my 20s rather than getting excited and signing any finance contract put in front of me "because shiny new thing".

I have watched a few of the Dave Ramsey videos on YouTube and the mess some people get themselves into because they have to own (in reality they never own it) the latest new car is crazy.

Yes they are a good watch I have to admit, quite mad isn't it some people's priorities.

[Gericho]

I think Jeremy Clarkson descibes it best. Either you get it, or you don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENFR_VGB68

[Dave200]

IanH755 said:

I've got an fairly wide dynamic between my two cars (950hp v10 RS6 & 68hp Citroen C1) and I enjoy vastly difference owning aspects with both cars so even when I sell the RS6, whatever comes next won't for me at least feel like a "downgrade", just something different, even if the reality is that it is a "downgrade" in power, or spec, or comfort, or ability etc etc etc.

I'm not sure that's what the OP was getting at.

[Fiisch]

Dave200 said:

If it comes down to spending money on a car or your children, can you really regret it?

You haven't met my kids...!!



I suppose not, but I guess in an ideal world I'd have enough money to do both....!

[Shnozz]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

New cars keep you poor. Wish I had realised this in my 20s rather than getting excited and signing any finance contract put in front of me "because shiny new thing".

I have watched a few of the Dave Ramsey videos on YouTube and the mess some people get themselves into because they have to own (in reality they never own it) the latest new car is crazy.

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

[mikeiow]

sunnyb13 said:

having a performance car is getting expensive in this day and age, has anyone taken the plunge and downgraded their cars?

thinking of getting something simple like a golf or similar.

would be good to get thoughts.

Plenty of replies: what are your thoughts?

Are you going from a Lamborghini down to a golf?
I’m sure that would feel like a downgrade….

Get the car you want and can afford….

Shnozz said:

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

You’re right about the monthlies….it’ll keep my kids generation in debt forever….unless you can train ‘em to spot that & break free
Disney+ ramping their annual cost 37.5% for zero tangible gain is a great way to point out that some things really aren’t worth paying for!!

[Dave200]

Shnozz said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

New cars keep you poor. Wish I had realised this in my 20s rather than getting excited and signing any finance contract put in front of me "because shiny new thing".

I have watched a few of the Dave Ramsey videos on YouTube and the mess some people get themselves into because they have to own (in reality they never own it) the latest new car is crazy.

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

Minor correction. The world is trying to keep naive people poor. If you have to sell an asset to fund life's fundamentals like housing and family, then you couldn't really afford that asset in the first place. If you have to stop paying rental agreements on a product like a lease or PCP to fund those things, then you really couldn't afford them. The concept of affordability is wildly distorted, particularly among people who like showing off shiny things. People who spend money like this are setting themselves up for a sad retirement.

Edited by Dave200 on Tuesday 26th March 08:56

[Nomme de Plum]

Shnozz said:

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

It really isn't.

It is within a person's control not to consume beyond their means or even improve their income if that is their ambition.

[Gordon Hill]

Shnozz said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

New cars keep you poor. Wish I had realised this in my 20s rather than getting excited and signing any finance contract put in front of me "because shiny new thing".

I have watched a few of the Dave Ramsey videos on YouTube and the mess some people get themselves into because they have to own (in reality they never own it) the latest new car is crazy.

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

100% correct. The sooner you realize this the sooner you have control (as much as this is possible), I count myself as fortunate, my parents taught me this early on.

[AlexGSi2000]

Just to comment again after the recent posts regarding credit, monthly payments.etc

Couldn't agree more, the less you have of these the better and gives you a sense of financial freedom.

Some of the ways I try and do this are;

- No car finance, everything is owned - I have my e39 in the garage for sunny days and high days, and the older e60's for daily duties - both cater for our needs and I do the maintenance.

- Subscriptions, the only one I can justify is YouTube, as I watch a lot of it and use the music app in work. We thought about disney for the young one, however, you can buy used Disney BluRay's on ebay for about 2 quid, they sit on the shelf and can be used over and over. Also think its nice for the little one to have something tangible rather than browsing through menus online.

- No rash decisions, before purchasing something of say over £100, unless its completely necessary, I tend to ask myself the question for a few days - do I really need this? - more often than not, I don't.

- Shopping around - especially for car parts.etc - I end up buying decent brands, but have a list of about 10 sites I will compare pricing on.

- Buy smart, find a happy medium between quality / cost - ie, you may replace that cheap white good for another cheap one, but is replacing every two years better than paying more and having one last 10?

- Think long term, what's the goal? - House, early retirement?

Back to the car thing, I bought the e39 5 years ago, I shouldn't really have it, but I justify it as it doesn't see much mileage, its gone up in value slightly and the fact that If I didnt have it then I would probably want a better daily, costing more in the long run.

Both me and the wife are on below the national average, but think that due to planning and making the right decisions without being rash has allowed us to get to where we are today.

[Honourable Dead Snark]

Unless a person is loaded to the point where money isn’t a consideration I imagine most people like me will sacrifice or prioritise certain lifestyle choices based upon what they like and even that in itself is a spectrum.

I try to be pretty balanced with most things wheres someone else might focus on having a nicer car rather than being able to go on holidays. I know others who couldn’t care less what car they have and instead would rather keep their money for expensive clothes and going to Ibiza every year.

They say investments into experiences are better for wellbeing than material possessions (although read something recently this isn’t true for everyone) but what a lot of people forget is that whilst cars are a product you buy, they can also give you some great experiences, providing its a relatively interesting car.

[Shnozz]

Nomme de Plum said:

Shnozz said:

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

It really isn't.

It is within a person's control not to consume beyond their means or even improve their income if that is their ambition.

It is within their control, I don’t disagree. But the millions employed in sales, marketing and other arenas from everything from targeted social media campaigns to the less regulated lending industry suggest to me that many are specifically employed to try and get as many folks on ghat hamster wheel as possible.

It was only a few generations back accessibility to credit cards and loans outside of a mortgage was unheard of and the lifetime debt cycle was far less prevalent. Nowadays it seems more and more the standard, albeit more so in the West perhaps.

The debt junkies have been more actively targeted by the lender and sales dealers and consumption is vastly increased as a result.

[Nomme de Plum]

Shnozz said:

It is within their control, I don’t disagree. But the millions employed in sales, marketing and other arenas from everything from targeted social media campaigns to the less regulated lending industry suggest to me that many are specifically employed to try and get as many folks on ghat hamster wheel as possible.

It was only a few generations back accessibility to credit cards and loans outside of a mortgage was unheard of and the lifetime debt cycle was far less prevalent. Nowadays it seems more and more the standard, albeit more so in the West perhaps.

The debt junkies have been more actively targeted by the lender and sales dealers and consumption is vastly increased as a result.

I was trying to highlight its is not the world, just companies doing what companies are in business to do. Make profits and pay their shareholders including your pension pot.

It is for us to ensure our politicians legislate to ensure these companies behave reasonably. Unfortunately we don't, therefore quite often they don't. There is no conspiracy just rather averagely educated people being all too gullible.

[Shnozz]

Nomme de Plum said:

I was trying to highlight its is not the world, just companies doing what companies are in business to do. Make profits and pay their shareholders including your pension pot.

It is for us to ensure our politicians legislate to ensure these companies behave reasonably. Unfortunately we don't, therefore quite often they don't. There is no conspiracy just rather averagely educated people being all too gullible.

Fair enough. The conspiracy/flat earther suggestion was part tongue in cheek but stemmed from an interesting article I once read suggesting a support, or perhaps more an indifference, on behalf of governments when it comes to the public signing themselves up to a lifetimes worth of direct debits and general recurrent payments; it creates a society hooked on a monthly pay cheque. No chance of stepping off the hamster wheel living pay day to pay day, not even for a few months at a time.

Given the governments current concern about the Covid walkout by so many older (former) employees who were mortgage free and perhaps eschewed credit lines for plastic tat/iphones unlike the younger staff, I can see an element of support for people locking themselves into those sort of commitments. Perhaps a bit flat earth, but not entirely inconceivable to my mind.

[Gordon Hill]

Nomme de Plum said:

Shnozz said:

It is within their control, I don’t disagree. But the millions employed in sales, marketing and other arenas from everything from targeted social media campaigns to the less regulated lending industry suggest to me that many are specifically employed to try and get as many folks on ghat hamster wheel as possible.

It was only a few generations back accessibility to credit cards and loans outside of a mortgage was unheard of and the lifetime debt cycle was far less prevalent. Nowadays it seems more and more the standard, albeit more so in the West perhaps.

The debt junkies have been more actively targeted by the lender and sales dealers and consumption is vastly increased as a result.

I was trying to highlight its is not the world, just companies doing what companies are in business to do. Make profits and pay their shareholders including your pension pot.

It is for us to ensure our politicians legislate to ensure these companies behave reasonably. Unfortunately we don't, therefore quite often they don't. There is no conspiracy just rather averagely educated people being all too gullible.

So the assumption is that "averagely educated" people are going to make poorer life choices than those more educated? Wrong, in my field of work I rub shoulders with some of the most educated people out there and at least half of them cannot function outside of work. They may be super intelligent but have no common sense whatsoever and time after time make decisions that the average 10 year old would consider ludicrous.
I find those of average intelligence far more street wise and savvy and have a much superior ability to function in the adult world. I also find those of superior education, in my experience, to be far more susceptible to delusions of grandeur and an over inflated view of their own importance, I'm related to one such, it's both cringeworthy and embarrassing.

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

Shnozz said:

Fair enough. The conspiracy/flat earther suggestion was part tongue in cheek but stemmed from an interesting article I once read suggesting a support, or perhaps more an indifference, on behalf of governments when it comes to the public signing themselves up to a lifetimes worth of direct debits and general recurrent payments; it creates a society hooked on a monthly pay cheque. No chance of stepping off the hamster wheel living pay day to pay day, not even for a few months at a time.

Given the governments current concern about the Covid walkout by so many older (former) employees who were mortgage free and perhaps eschewed credit lines for plastic tat/iphones unlike the younger staff, I can see an element of support for people locking themselves into those sort of commitments. Perhaps a bit flat earth, but not entirely inconceivable to my mind.

I realised this a long time ago, I don't want to have to work to earn the money to pay for a finance payment on anything other a mortgage. I am 50, currently the only thing I care about is over paying my mortgage and salary sacrificing as much into my pension as possible.

Once I have no mortgage virtually everything will be going into the pension until the day I can say "I am done" and walk away from the plantation.

The people opposite me rent at £2K a month and have two newish cars. I would love to know what their retirement plan is.

[RSTurboPaul]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Shnozz said:

Fair enough. The conspiracy/flat earther suggestion was part tongue in cheek but stemmed from an interesting article I once read suggesting a support, or perhaps more an indifference, on behalf of governments when it comes to the public signing themselves up to a lifetimes worth of direct debits and general recurrent payments; it creates a society hooked on a monthly pay cheque. No chance of stepping off the hamster wheel living pay day to pay day, not even for a few months at a time.

Given the governments current concern about the Covid walkout by so many older (former) employees who were mortgage free and perhaps eschewed credit lines for plastic tat/iphones unlike the younger staff, I can see an element of support for people locking themselves into those sort of commitments. Perhaps a bit flat earth, but not entirely inconceivable to my mind.

I realised this a long time ago, I don't want to have to work to earn the money to pay for a finance payment on anything other a mortgage. I am 50, currently the only thing I care about is over paying my mortgage and salary sacrificing as much into my pension as possible.

Once I have no mortgage virtually everything will be going into the pension until the day I can say "I am done" and walk away from the plantation.

The people opposite me rent at £2K a month and have two newish cars. I would love to know what their retirement plan is.

A genuine (off topic?) question - is there risk that your pension(s) could be lost through either company failure or wider market failure?

I guess I wonder whether going all-in on a pension is 'eggs in one basket' that could be lost in a 'black swan event' situation or similar.


In terms of the lifestyle question, it would seem a near-impossible task to recover from being on the debt treadmill and get a mortgage paid off anywhere other than in 'cheap' areas of the UK unless one comes into a lump sum of money at some point.

[thejaywills]

Shnozz said:

The world is trying to keep you poor. The banks, any marketing division, any manufacturer. If you’re a conspiracy theorist, the Davos higher society.

Subscription models of monthlies for anything from music, film, gym, iPhone to car pcps. Never owning anything and trapped compliant in a job to cover the hamster wheel of rental payments for the shiny st every month. Sooner you break free from all that the better.

Yes and no - the world isn't trying to keep you poor, the word is trying to keep ITSELF wealthy, and doesn't discriminate who from.

The rich love getting rich of the rich, the rich love getting rich off the poor. Everyone owes it to themselves to either be financially independent - or at least to educate themselves to use the system to their advantage.

In circumstances, there is nothing wrong with the right finance tools - it's certainly not wrong to want to do things in cash and some cash reserves is sensible. It's just very possible to have a structure and setup that allows you to enjoy life without seeing every subscription, luxury or bill as 'wreckless' as some do. In many instances it's a perfectly logical way to be set up..

[shirt]

Honeywell said:

The answer, as always, is to have a normal car for normal duties and then have an MX5 as well for fun.

Last year my budget in this regard was £45,000 for the fun car. Tried loads of options. Ended up spending £27k on a one year old 300 mile MX5 Sport Tech. Stick a £350 exhaust back box on it and you're sorted.

Pistonheads are a bit too Spinal Tap. Just because the Amp goes up to 11 doesn't make it the better Amp...

I just couldn’t bring myself to spend 27k on an mx5. My elise and Ducati together cost less than that.