RE: Turbocharged '80s legends | Six of the Best
Discussion
Quattro for me please
Owning one remains an unfulfilled dream for me, ever since watching them in Kielder on the RAC in the 1980's. They were very, very cool back in the day and to me remain so.
I have never understood why they never seem to have reached the dizzy heights as a modern classic - they were truly an icon and started off the whole 4 wheel drive car thing. And then there's Michelle
Dad managed a white Coupe in the mid 80's - white with the rings on the side. He was free with his cars (not a car guy) and always let me use it whenever I wanted - I can still hear that lovely warbling 5 pot. Try as we did, never persuaded him to push the boat out and get the full fat version.
Owning one remains an unfulfilled dream for me, ever since watching them in Kielder on the RAC in the 1980's. They were very, very cool back in the day and to me remain so.
I have never understood why they never seem to have reached the dizzy heights as a modern classic - they were truly an icon and started off the whole 4 wheel drive car thing. And then there's Michelle
Dad managed a white Coupe in the mid 80's - white with the rings on the side. He was free with his cars (not a car guy) and always let me use it whenever I wanted - I can still hear that lovely warbling 5 pot. Try as we did, never persuaded him to push the boat out and get the full fat version.
Fliptop-Saab said:
You're missing the most important 80s turbo car, the first 2 litre 16V turbo hatchback that set the template for today's hot hatches...
Mitsubishi Starion must predate the 900 no? My best friends dad had one, I thought it was the coolest car ever. I *think* the 2.0 Turbo in the Starion even lived on into all the great Lancer Evos a decade+ later but I'm sure I stand to be corrected.
Edited by pheonix478 on Friday 29th March 18:15
It's crazy how legendary old school turbo cars have become. I don't think the modern turbocharged engines are going to become legendary compared to the NA unit it replaces. m3 v8, rs4 etc. all the modern technology has transformed the modern turbos, have currently obtained a "better" throttle response, enormous amount of low and mid range torque and an all-plate torque curve which drops noticeably afterwards. a bit of power delivered like a diesel ultimately.
not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
Murci.sv said:
It's crazy how legendary old school turbo cars have become. I don't think the modern turbocharged engines are going to become legendary compared to the NA unit it replaces. m3 v8, rs4 etc. all the modern technology has transformed the modern turbos, have currently obtained a "better" throttle response, enormous amount of low and mid range torque and an all-plate torque curve which drops noticeably afterwards. a bit of power delivered like a diesel ultimately.
not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
I'm quite odd/in the minority because I actually prefer a turbo engine to an NA engine. I do like both don't get me wrong, but as a general rule of thumb I do prefer a turbo(or 2) in a daily, and then leave the NA engines for the weekend/occasional car(s) I reckon. not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
NA engines are fantastic on empty and open roads, but I've found them to be a bit frustrating in a daily when the traffic is heavy, because you struggle to get the best from them. Whereas modern turbo engines give you much more "on tap" performance I think.
Murci.sv said:
It's crazy how legendary old school turbo cars have become. I don't think the modern turbocharged engines are going to become legendary compared to the NA unit it replaces. m3 v8, rs4 etc. all the modern technology has transformed the modern turbos, have currently obtained a "better" throttle response, enormous amount of low and mid range torque and an all-plate torque curve which drops noticeably afterwards. a bit of power delivered like a diesel ultimately.
not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
100% agree. not to mention the sounds are mostly dismal. the turbo has always been perceived as "dirty" for many petroheads preferring a na engine each time. yet one of if not the best supercar of all time is on this list. a very high boost threshold, little torque at low revs, 2 turbo ihi, an incredible and non-linear rush of power which is the raw character of the f40, and IMO the real appeal of a turbocharged engine.
biggbn said:
Yup, people criticise turbo lag like its a BAD thing? As an old Saab aficionado, little prepared you for your first nothing, nothing, nothing WALLOP of boost in a T16S or the like. The experience always matched the anticipation and these old cars FELT crudely fast.
The forced induction version of VTEC-YO …… 
For my part I find so far, that nothing is more frustrating and exciting than a heavily turbocharged car. certainly the attraction of a big engine NA is real and it's a real pleasure to drive. the sound, the response, the revs (depending on the engine). but the power is so linear and predictable, it "bores" me a little. with the old turbos you press from low revs and there is no big shock, this certainly disappoints you unlike a big, well-torqued V8. It's like driving an almost standard car of medium displacement. and then the acceleration increases increases more and even harder to then explode with this push in the back. the smile that puts it on my face I have not known it on any na, yet not the least. turbos can greatly provide engagement and theater to match. they just need to feel turbo
Murci.sv said:
For my part I find so far, that nothing is more frustrating and exciting than a heavily turbocharged car. certainly the attraction of a big engine NA is real and it's a real pleasure to drive. the sound, the response, the revs (depending on the engine). but the power is so linear and predictable, it "bores" me a little. with the old turbos you press from low revs and there is no big shock, this certainly disappoints you unlike a big, well-torqued V8. It's like driving an almost standard car of medium displacement. and then the acceleration increases increases more and even harder to then explode with this push in the back. the smile that puts it on my face I have not known it on any na, yet not the least. turbos can greatly provide engagement and theater to match. they just need to feel turbo
I love them but I can see why lots of people don't. The only way to try one for most people is to drive a friend's or a friendly classic dealer and understandably very few will ever drive them at 7+/10ths which is where they need to be. All the fun and character has been engineered out of modern turbos even though they are objectively better in every way. s m said:
biggbn said:
Yup, people criticise turbo lag like its a BAD thing? As an old Saab aficionado, little prepared you for your first nothing, nothing, nothing WALLOP of boost in a T16S or the like. The experience always matched the anticipation and these old cars FELT crudely fast.
The forced induction version of VTEC-YO …… I came up to the first roundabout, set off in first - not much happened - pushed further - not much happened - began to think ‘this is slower than my MG’ around the point boost came in and all hell broke loose! It shot forward with such apparent ferocity I thought I had broken it - with a loud banging from the front wheels as they tried and failed then tried again to contain the power and tramped its merry way round (in a 50p kind of way). It wasn’t until my third junction at full throttle that I realised what was happening, It was awful. I had to have one.
Om said:
I vividly recall my first drive of an early-ish turbo - a brand new mk2 Uno Turbo. I had lucked into a ‘here are the keys, go enjoy yourself’ test drive after driving up in my MG Metro… A drizzly grey Manchester day. Perfect.
I came up to the first roundabout, set off in first - not much happened - pushed further - not much happened - began to think ‘this is slower than my MG’ around the point boost came in and all hell broke loose! It shot forward with such apparent ferocity I thought I had broken it - with a loud banging from the front wheels as they tried and failed then tried again to contain the power and tramped its merry way round (in a 50p kind of way). It wasn’t until my third junction at full throttle that I realised what was happening, It was awful. I had to have one.
Similar experience for me, but in a pre GM Saab 900 turbo; "what's all the fuss about, this thing is a slllUUUUUUUUUUUUUU DAMN!"I came up to the first roundabout, set off in first - not much happened - pushed further - not much happened - began to think ‘this is slower than my MG’ around the point boost came in and all hell broke loose! It shot forward with such apparent ferocity I thought I had broken it - with a loud banging from the front wheels as they tried and failed then tried again to contain the power and tramped its merry way round (in a 50p kind of way). It wasn’t until my third junction at full throttle that I realised what was happening, It was awful. I had to have one.
I don't think any automotive technology has gone so quickly and completely from "this is dead exciting, I want it" to "this is boring and rubbish, I don't want it" as turbocharging. Modern stuff has far less of the boost threshold laughs of the old stuff, but you still get a horrid mushy throttle response and as others have said you get a tedious dropping off at medium revs to a damp squib finish. Often accompanied by a blaring wall of obnoxious monotone noise that's meant to somehow substitute for the complex layered sound of a NASP or supercharged engine, and lets not even mention the fact they're almost all strapped to a cuckbox.
Modern turbocharged engines are so drab they make me glad to see electric motors, it's good to remember how unruly and exciting they used to be.
RSstuff said:
I reckon the secret to making progress in a laggy 80's turbo car compared to a modern version, is you need to be a gear or 2 lower when you floor the loud pedal.
Same applies to my wife’s current model turbocharged Polo, but that’s only because it is so hideously over-geared to help massage the VW emissions/fuel economy figures. The fact that you have to drive it like this means you use more fuel so it’s a self-defeating idea.biggbn said:
Yup, people criticise turbo lag like its a BAD thing? As an old Saab aficionado, little prepared you for your first nothing, nothing, nothing WALLOP of boost in a T16S or the like. The experience always matched the anticipation and these old cars FELT crudely fast.
Matter of taste. I always felt driving a laggy car was like using a computer with mouse lag - just a bit irritating. The worst turbo car I drove was a 9000 CS with an automatic transmission. Nobody seemed to have told the transmission people about the turbo. It changed up as soon as it started to boost. Horrid. Manual 9-5 aero was ok for a barge if you drove around the lag, but not something I enjoyed about it. Same for Impreza Turbo 2000, though that was actually trying to be enjoyable, so failed harder.
I can see why people like the drama, but for me it’s not worth the mush.
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