RE: 2024 Rolls-Royce Spectre | UK Review

[stavers]

Scott-R said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I'm waiting for someone to tell me that it will feel as light and nimble as my Caterham in the corners...even at 2890kg because of its low centre of gravity of where the batteries sit.

ICE SUVs get slagged off left, right and centre for their weight, but it is ok for EVs to weigh as much as the moon, because they're allegedly saving the planet. You can't help but laugh really.

EVs of all kinds are affected by weight differently compared to ICE vehicles. It’s something that car journalists unfortunately frequently misunderstand, which doesn’t then help regular people learn about EVs.

For anything with regenerative braking(and a way of storing a large amount of regenerated energy so not a MHEV), the energy the braking system can recover over a given distance can be defined as E = mgh, where m is mass, g is gravitational force, and h is the change of vertical height from start to end. What this all means is that, given that current regen systems are easily 90%+ efficient, the weight of the vehicle become nearly irrelevant, as the extra energy expended to propel the vehicle, is 90%+ recovered, on a level surface. An ICE car will simply burn more energy because it has no ability to recover the energy that was expended.

That’s not to say of course that less weight doesn’t have other benefits, and as the owner of two moderately lightweight cars (although neither is Caterham light), I do appreciate how less weight alters the driving dynamics. But the idea that a heavy EV is more damaging or that it would have more range if it weighed less just isn’t true because of the fantastic work done on regen systems for the last decade.

In terms of things like pedestrian safety etc, of course being hit by less energy/mass is beneficial, but pedestrian safety is also driven by the kinematics of the human body against the shape of the vehicle, and it’s something that is better in a saloon than an SUV.

Of course on paper a 3 ton saloon looks profligate, but the reality is that it’s how and what that weight is used for, that is just as important when determining the value of the product

I was trying to come up with how this doesn't work in the real world but ADAC did the work for me.
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/which-ev-is-the-...

A lot of things come in to play (where on the torque curve the car is, stability control, blending, etc.) but this value is a lot less in the real world.

And a lot of modern ICE do utilise a smart alternator to only charge the battery whilst the car is decelerating unless absolutely necessary so they do regen a small amount. I know it's orders of magnitude less than an EV but it can still be done.

[Nomme de Plum]

CLK-GTR said:

Ah ok now you're trotting out the phantom friends who own RRs to back up your point.

Of course somebody who owns a 300k car probably owns one or ten more cars. Still doesn't mask the fact if they buy a luxury car to travel in luxury, it has to do that job. Having to stop or plan around refueling or charging ruins that. The cars fits your life not the other way around. I agree with the above post that most buyers will be going somewhere with a charging point but not always with a real world 200 odd mile range.

By the way RR have an increasing number of younger buyers and buyers who are buying them as their only car especially in the US.

Then i suggest you look at the newish RR cars for sale there as I have. Guess what the mileage of these cars are still in the very low thousands per annum.

Can you evidence those USA based new Rolls Royce car buyers that only have the one car and presumably no Chauffeur.

Maybe it's this single person

"Like Maxie Kaan-Lilly, a 30-year-old South Florida real estate agent and model. Her Rolls-Royce Dawn is her only car and she takes it everywhere, she said."

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 25th March 15:33

[GT9]

stavers said:

I was trying to come up with how this doesn't work in the real world but ADAC did the work for me.
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/which-ev-is-the-...

A lot of things come in to play (where on the torque curve the car is, stability control, blending, etc.) but this value is a lot less in the real world.

And a lot of modern ICE do utilise a smart alternator to only charge the battery whilst the car is decelerating unless absolutely necessary so they do regen a small amount. I know it's orders of magnitude less than an EV but it can still be done.

TBH, what the poster that you were responding to omitted is that it's the difference between using an electric motor and and engine to either accelerate the mass or overcome rolling resistance (which is linearly mass dependent) that is by far the biggest contributor to the different energy consumptions between the two powertrains. Regen is more the icing on the cake.

Relative to each other, acceleration is a high-power low-energy event and rolling resistance is a continuous low-power high-energy event.

Drag (which is mass-independent) is of course an even more significant continuous low-power high-energy event.

The effect of speed on energy consumption per mile is acute (square law) for drag and almost negligible for rolling resistance.

If several acceleration/deceleration events start to consume more energy per mile, given that kinetic energy increases with the square of speed, the regen of the EV, and the use of a motor instead of an engine/gearbox to accelerate the car in the first place widen the gap from the ICE to the EV.

Fundamentally, it's the threefold difference in efficiency between the motor and the engine/gearbox combination that is the primary reason why EVs are able to reach and exceed 3 miles per kWh vs 1 mile per kWh for the very best ICEs. Regen then augments this, less so for long distance constant speed cruising of course.

[garypotter]

[quote=stavers]

I was trying to come up with how this doesn't work in the real world but ADAC did the work for me.
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/which-ev-is-the-...


An advert for the new BMW i7.... but in the real world the Dacia will win this as they will sell 10 times more vehicles and be used differently tot he i7

Back to the electric RR its not for me but i can aprreciate there is a market for this top end EV and good luck to RR

[Julian Scott]

CLK-GTR said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I'm sorry but you have no clue as to the typical new RR buyer. At least I've known a few and they would find your comparison laughable. They all owned numerous cars.

I'm not sure why you'd bring the Cotswolds into the discussion. How many brand new ones do you see buzzing around there.

I think you maybe looking at the 3rd, 4th 5th+ owners not the ones who spend £400K on a new one every year or two.

Ah ok now you're trotting out the phantom friends who own RRs to back up your point.

Of course somebody who owns a 300k car probably owns one or ten more cars. Still doesn't mask the fact if they buy a luxury car to travel in luxury, it has to do that job. Having to stop or plan around refueling or charging ruins that. The cars fits your life not the other way around. I agree with the above post that most buyers will be going somewhere with a charging point but not always with a real world 200 odd mile range.

By the way RR have an increasing number of younger buyers and buyers who are buying them as their only car especially in the US.

You're missing the point that the majority of Spectre drivers will have to plan refuelling stops less than when in the ICE forebear.

[GingerNinja]

theaxe said:

Exactly, there was a lot of moaning when smartphones came out and batteries went from lasting a week to a day. Then everyone eventually realised that charging overnight wasn't that much of a burden, contactless charging made it more convenient and other tech like powerpacks filled in the gaps. We're just in that awkward transition phase for EVs at the moment.

Back to the Rolls, I love it but it'll need to depreciate a bit more...

Development will absolutely continue towards greater energy density in batteries, if for no other reason than the airline industry. Of course charging tech will also continue to improve alongside it.

[J4CKO]

GingerNinja said:

theaxe said:

Exactly, there was a lot of moaning when smartphones came out and batteries went from lasting a week to a day. Then everyone eventually realised that charging overnight wasn't that much of a burden, contactless charging made it more convenient and other tech like powerpacks filled in the gaps. We're just in that awkward transition phase for EVs at the moment.

Back to the Rolls, I love it but it'll need to depreciate a bit more...

Development will absolutely continue towards greater energy density in batteries, if for no other reason than the airline industry. Of course charging tech will also continue to improve alongside it.

Yeah, I am not a betting man, but I wouldn't bet against the engineers, physicists and chemists to come up with a new battery technology that makes all that has gone before largely redundant overnight, the key bit is the timeframe.

I always think about other tech, like internet speeds, I remember my 9600 baud modem on my commodore Amiga, then a 28.8k, then a 33.6k one not long after and despite being told its at the limit after that small jump, 56.6k a couple of years after, then DSL and broadband, and now your phone can download at 10 gigabits per second.

TVs, biggest was like 32 inch CRT, then LCDs came out and you can buy a 100 inch 8k one now.

PCs, cant go any faster that 100 mhz I remember being told, just talking to a mate, he has bought one with 16 cores running at 4 ghz I think he said.

But, batteries capacity and charging arent going to improve ? Do me a favour, Whoever patents a battery chemistry that nails those two things safely and reliably will be very, very rich so its being invested into in a big way, thats when people will stop saying Hydrogen is a future because they dont like EVs, kind of not realising that Hydrogen cars are just another EV really.

EVs are here to stay im afraid, even as someone who doesnt own one or want one, I cant see any other option, so they have to improve, and this is like say 1994 was for internet speeds for EV capacity.

I reckon that for say 30k in 15 years you will be able to buy an EV that will charge in under 30 mins and have a range of say 600 miles.

[Wills2]

Lovely delivery mileage one at Romans for sale for £435k, they've had two both in dark emerald and both on delivery miles, the first sold quickly just this one left, some real world claims of a 200 mile range which is fine if all you do is drive around Miami or Dubai or Monaco even which I guess is what many will do

https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/roll...

[dougalhound]

Was the design finished in a hurry ?

[Julian Scott]

Wills2 said:

some real world claims of a 200 mile range which is fine if all you do is drive around Miami or Dubai or Monaco even which I guess is what many will do

Or just drive like 99.9% of drivers do?

Even the most powerfully built company director on PH is unlikely to use any Rolls Royce to do regular non-stop trips of 2-300 miles.

[CLK-GTR]

Julian Scott said:

You're missing the point that the majority of Spectre drivers will have to plan refuelling stops less than when in the ICE forebear.

On the assumption they have a charger everywhere the car goes. Otherwise they have to charge more often and for longer. Not the first thing I think of when it comes to luxury.

[Wills2]

I think the dark green suits it very well, just feels like a bit too much on UK roads.

[Julian Scott]

CLK-GTR said:

Julian Scott said:

You're missing the point that the majority of Spectre drivers will have to plan refuelling stops less than when in the ICE forebear.

On the assumption they have a charger everywhere the car goes. Otherwise they have to charge more often and for longer. Not the first thing I think of when it comes to luxury.

The majority of Rolls Royce charging will be done at home. The notion that people use £400k Rolls Royces to regularly drive several hundred miles non-stop is a little fanciful.

For those that do venture further, your car charging whilst you are ensconced in a nice hotel, fine restaurant, etc is certainly more luxurious than standing in a pool of spilt diesel at a petrol station ;-)

[pheonix478]

CLK-GTR said:

On the assumption they have a charger everywhere the car goes. Otherwise they have to charge more often and for longer. Not the first thing I think of when it comes to luxury.

I fail to see how queueing behind Waynetta in state of fat slutty undress, buying Cheezy Wotsits and a giant can Monster energy is a more luxury experience than simply charging at home when you sleep. I do love the smell of a good super unleaded though.

[GT9]

pheonix478 said:

I fail to see how queueing behind Waynetta in state of fat slutty undress, buying Cheezy Wotsits and a giant can Monster energy is a more luxury experience than simply charging at home when you sleep. I do love the smell of a good super unleaded though.

I'm thinking club/fast-track tills at the service station would be an idea. Maybe exclusively for those buying super unleaded.

[BergunSlangler]

Portofino said:

Looks a bit like a Chrysler Crossfire at the back.

I’m not sure on it personally. Looks unresolved & disjointed to me.

Quite agree. If I cover the front with my hand, the sides/roof line look fine. I'm sure it's a lovely car, but not for me (even if I could afford it )

[RichardR]

Zio Di Roma said:

Whilst I appreciate that two-tone paint is a Rolls Royce signature, I think the single colour of the car in the OP looks better than, for example, this:

That'll look fine once they've taken the protective vinyl off the bonnet and roof.

[NGK210]

Wills2 said:

Lovely delivery mileage one at Romans for sale for £435k, they've had two both in dark emerald and both on delivery miles, the first sold quickly just this one left, some real world claims of a 200 mile range which is fine if all you do is drive around Miami or Dubai or Monaco even which I guess is what many will do

https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/roll...

I guess R-Rs with round or oval headlights are now verboten because they've become a Bentley signature?
Which is shame.
And ironic.

[Pogle]

The wood on the dash looks a bit Triumph 2000 ish?

[Zombie]

Pointless, obnoxious and disgusting. It's not even good looking.

I know the EV drivetrain translates well to the brand and that EVs may well be the future, but a multi tonne vehicle that is 5.5m long, isn't that quick and pretty much unusable in the real world (a typical parking space being 2.4m x 4.8m) is, for a lack of a stronger word, vulgar. I hate it. And not because it's an EV, it's simply tone deaf and as an EV, badly Engineered virtue signalling.

Edited by Zombie on Wednesday 27th March 01:19