RE: Aston boss doubles down on PHEVs amid EV slowdown
Discussion
andy43 said:
Most EV drivers are doing it to save tax, not the planet.
Still getting the same tonnage of Chinese s
t posted through their letterboxes on a daily basis from Amazon, still eating meat, still going to Florida.
Without those tax breaks nobody would buy them - see the used EV market for proof.
New Aston buyers might run a Taycan on the business for daily use, but the moment their weekend sports car goes electric they’ll stop buying them.
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though). Still getting the same tonnage of Chinese s
t posted through their letterboxes on a daily basis from Amazon, still eating meat, still going to Florida.Without those tax breaks nobody would buy them - see the used EV market for proof.
New Aston buyers might run a Taycan on the business for daily use, but the moment their weekend sports car goes electric they’ll stop buying them.
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
cerb4.5lee said:
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though).
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
I must be the only one that bought one as it’s a new driving experience. The performance is really fun and it feels like you have stepped into the future. Sure I also save money as it costs so little to run. In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
moktabe said:
A bit of a broad sweep of an opinion there.
No doubt many get put away and only see daylight when the Sun comes out however, some people do use them regularly and not just for posing.
Personally I owned a Vantage V12S for 18 months and it was my daily car. In those 18 months I did over 12000 miles in it so some owners do more than polish them.
Edited to add that not one of those miles was to and from work as have been happily retired for a few years now.
Which works out to be 20-25 miles a day. Maybe there were some continent crushing trips, but that average is well in the capabilities of even a Honda ENo doubt many get put away and only see daylight when the Sun comes out however, some people do use them regularly and not just for posing.
Personally I owned a Vantage V12S for 18 months and it was my daily car. In those 18 months I did over 12000 miles in it so some owners do more than polish them.
Edited to add that not one of those miles was to and from work as have been happily retired for a few years now.
Edited by moktabe on Sunday 14th April 09:10
delta0 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though).
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
I must be the only one that bought one as it’s a new driving experience. The performance is really fun and it feels like you have stepped into the future. Sure I also save money as it costs so little to run. In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
Notwithstanding 56% of new car purchases are business of fleet purchases. This percentage has not really changed over the years.
What is also overlooked is that new cars only represent 25% of the annual car transactions. The rest being used which will be overwhelmingly private purchases
cerb4.5lee said:
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though).
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
In regards to folk wanting to save a few quid, the vast majority of people in the U.K. will spend £100s to save £1s. As with all consumer markets. You can sell something that the person has no need of and never even wanted u til they saw they could save 10%. The £100 object they were ne we going to need or buy can be had for 10% savings so they just part with £90 for the absolute bargain. In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
When it comes to cars, it's even easier, you bump up a fake RRP to give the illusion that the person is getting an amazing discount and you then sell them a secured loan at unsecured, junk credit rating levels of interest. And they f
king love it. What's more, you can offer a tax discount on VED for getting a diesel one and they'll just buy a diesel as well as then go out to the world telling everyone how smart they are and how stupid everyone else is. The moment EVs are cheaper for these people than their ICE they'll jump like rats from the ship and proclaim their greatness from every steeple in the land. Lots of old folk are just angry at EVs because they're not being offered the cash back deal at the till. Plus, they love to spend their free time banging on about how bad foreign types are when not the approved shade and EVs are a useful proxy like SUVs have been for them.
Dave200 said:
You're being sucked in by the PH 'editorial', and falling for it. They post up loads of EV articles knowing that people are going to run straight to the forum and write hilarious comments like calling them milkfloats. Those of us who own ice and EV cars point out that they aren't, and then a torrent of misinformed drivel gets posted. Rinse and repeat.
BINGO!wisbech said:
Which works out to be 20-25 miles a day. Maybe there were some continent crushing trips, but that average is well in the capabilities of even a Honda E
Also had a Smart as a town car and that mileage would have also been well within the capabilities of that so your point being?My point was with you saying GT and sports cars don't get used.
There were a few continental trips also a fair few UK ones.
Now let me think, which would be more fun..... AM Vantage V12S or a Honda E.
Edited by moktabe on Sunday 14th April 10:55
Edited by moktabe on Sunday 14th April 10:56
moktabe said:
wisbech said:
Which works out to be 20-25 miles a day. Maybe there were some continent crushing trips, but that average is well in the capabilities of even a Honda E
Also had a Smart as a town car and that mileage would have also been well within the capabilities of that so your point being?My point was with you saying GT and sports cars don't get used.
There were a few continental trips also a fair few UK ones.
Now let me think, which would be more fun..... AM Vantage V12S or a Honda E.
Edited by moktabe on Sunday 14th April 10:55
Edited by moktabe on Sunday 14th April 10:56
But the idea that GT cars aren't suitable for EV as they need long range doesn't hold scrutiny compared to the way they are used.
May be Porsche's downfall, as they have been traditionally engineering not emotionally driven (vs say Aston Martin) So their engineers appear to be embracing EV as a better engineering solution, ignoring the emotions involved in the purchase decision - similar to the way they moved to PDK gearboxes, and seemed surprised at the continuing demand for manual (though perfectly happy to make more money by having special edition manuals...)
Edited to add - my money is on Porsche, not AM. Look at how Porsche happily pivoted to a being mainly a manufacturer of SUV, with sports cars and GT as a sideline. They appear to understand the market better
Edited by wisbech on Sunday 14th April 11:38
Umboglia Riccardo said:
Another nerve struck I see, within a few minutes of my post! Waiting around on the forum on a Sunday morning, ready to pounce like a coiled spring on anyone who dares to criticise the EV religion.
Two down. Who's the net to confirm that they are a sad looser? Nonne de plumme perhaps?
Be careful. Two down. Who's the net to confirm that they are a sad looser? Nonne de plumme perhaps?
Say something like you're happy to let MrsUR choose an EV and you'll be called sexist or some such. And if you retort you'll be reported! Ask me how I know...
Edited by JJJ. on Sunday 14th April 21:06
wisbech said:
As DonkeyApple says, yes, for many an EV will never be as fun as an ICE, similar to quartz vs mechanical watches, or motorbike vs car, or bicycle vs car, or horse vs bicycle. It's an emotional response.
But the idea that GT cars aren't suitable for EV as they need long range doesn't hold scrutiny compared to the way they are used.
May be Porches downfall, as they have been traditionally engineering not emotionally driven (vs say Aston Martin) So their engineers appear to be embracing EV as a better engineering solution, ignoring the emotions involved in the purchase decision - similar to the way they moved to PDK gearboxes, and seemed surprised at the continuing demand for manual (though perfectly happy to make more money by having special edition manuals...)
Porsche's profits seem to be holding up really well so I suspect they are OK for the time being. We will see how the new Macan EV is received as the sales numbers are typically double the Taycan. If it goes down well it will confirm their early move to EV will have been the correct one. But the idea that GT cars aren't suitable for EV as they need long range doesn't hold scrutiny compared to the way they are used.
May be Porches downfall, as they have been traditionally engineering not emotionally driven (vs say Aston Martin) So their engineers appear to be embracing EV as a better engineering solution, ignoring the emotions involved in the purchase decision - similar to the way they moved to PDK gearboxes, and seemed surprised at the continuing demand for manual (though perfectly happy to make more money by having special edition manuals...)
When the EV versions of the Cayman and Boxter are released it will be interesting to see how they and their ICE counterpart do in terms of sales and also performance wise.
delta0 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though).
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
I must be the only one that bought one as it’s a new driving experience. The performance is really fun and it feels like you have stepped into the future. Sure I also save money as it costs so little to run. In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
I'm having one of my more well balanced days I reckon today!
Umboglia Riccardo said:
GT9 said:
Does your partner also work with people who need to re-invent their online persona on a daily basis because their previous ones kept getting banned for fkwittery?
Struck a nerve has it?kwittery?Are you the person who has been consistently reporting people who point out the inconvenient truths in your argument?
Nomme de Plum said:
Porsche's profits seem to be holding up really well so I suspect they are OK for the time being. We will see how the new Macan EV is received as the sales numbers are typically double the Taycan. If it goes down well it will confirm their early move to EV will have been the correct one.
When the EV versions of the Cayman and Boxter are released it will be interesting to see how they and their ICE counterpart do in terms of sales and also performance wise.
I suspect that Porsche EV sales will tend to show that few people travel either far or fast off the beaten track and that the typical day trip or commute on a small island where electricity is ubiquitous is already easily achievable on just home charging plus some planned destination topping up. And they can just keep selling ICE cars for as long as there's profit. Their PR dept will have already written any spin that's required, including numerous stories designed to let people think they'll be buying magical efuel everywhere they go, while VW bank the carbon credits from selling fossil fuel sourced carbon to the aviation and motorsport industries. When the EV versions of the Cayman and Boxter are released it will be interesting to see how they and their ICE counterpart do in terms of sales and also performance wise.
DMZ said:
In case we are still talking about Aston Martin, I don’t think their model is to sell rebadged Audis so not sure what relevance Porsche has.
Think the point is about performance car brands on the electric transition. Porsche are forced to go faster than Aston and have more breadth in their range though I guess(p.s some argue that Aston are selling rebadged Mercedes bits. In the future that’s rebadged Lucids)
They tried rebadged Toyotas and having a pretty good shot at assembling their own Mercedes. 
The reference to VW is pertinent by the disparity between Porsche and Aston re their plausible pathways to pure electrification. They're both going to arrive at the exact same place but via differing paths but very similar PR bullst for the masses. I'd put money on Stroll doing some tie up for an efuel for the race cars and trying to get road car users on board with dreams that they'll get some.
Meanwhile, as Lucid looks to be going down the pan they'll fall back on Merc's hybrid tech to fill the void and spin it up as some genius master plan that has come from listening to their customers.
The reference to VW is pertinent by the disparity between Porsche and Aston re their plausible pathways to pure electrification. They're both going to arrive at the exact same place but via differing paths but very similar PR bulls
t for the masses. I'd put money on Stroll doing some tie up for an efuel for the race cars and trying to get road car users on board with dreams that they'll get some. Meanwhile, as Lucid looks to be going down the pan they'll fall back on Merc's hybrid tech to fill the void and spin it up as some genius master plan that has come from listening to their customers.
DonkeyApple said:
cerb4.5lee said:
That is also the angle that I see it from as well. They are purchased only to save tax and the perceived lower running costs versus ICE, plus I'd imagine that there will only be a handful of folk sticking their hand up for an EV sports car as well(although as I've said I am quite intrigued to see what they might be like in comparison to an ICE sports car though).
In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
In regards to folk wanting to save a few quid, the vast majority of people in the U.K. will spend £100s to save £1s. As with all consumer markets. You can sell something that the person has no need of and never even wanted u til they saw they could save 10%. The £100 object they were ne we going to need or buy can be had for 10% savings so they just part with £90 for the absolute bargain. In saying all that, most of us like to save a few quid here and there, so I can see the attraction of an EV from that regard I think(if your work/business can get you in one in the first place obviously/and you can charge from home). But lets not pretend that they're purchased for any other reason though for me.
When it comes to cars, it's even easier, you bump up a fake RRP to give the illusion that the person is getting an amazing discount and you then sell them a secured loan at unsecured, junk credit rating levels of interest. And they f
king love it. What's more, you can offer a tax discount on VED for getting a diesel one and they'll just buy a diesel as well as then go out to the world telling everyone how smart they are and how stupid everyone else is. The moment EVs are cheaper for these people than their ICE they'll jump like rats from the ship and proclaim their greatness from every steeple in the land. Lots of old folk are just angry at EVs because they're not being offered the cash back deal at the till. Plus, they love to spend their free time banging on about how bad foreign types are when not the approved shade and EVs are a useful proxy like SUVs have been for them.
Look at the mirror & read it back.
Edited by James6112 on Sunday 14th April 16:37
Nomme de Plum said:
Porsche's profits seem to be holding up really well so I suspect they are OK for the time being. We will see how the new Macan EV is received as the sales numbers are typically double the Taycan. If it goes down well it will confirm their early move to EV will have been the correct one.
When the EV versions of the Cayman and Boxter are released it will be interesting to see how they and their ICE counterpart do in terms of sales and also performance wise.
I suspect an electric Macan will be right on the money. It'll be a family crossover with the right badge to justify its cost. They'll make hay. When the EV versions of the Cayman and Boxter are released it will be interesting to see how they and their ICE counterpart do in terms of sales and also performance wise.
The electric Boxster and Cayman will be interesting. Given they struggled even putting a 4-cylinder engine in them, I think electric will be a hard sell. They'll either sink without trace or be retained as a niche model for marketing purposes (look, we do still make sports cars!)
As for the 911, I suspect its electric usurper is already here - the Taycan. At best, the electric 911 will be a two-door Taycan. What else could they do? Sling 750kg of battery over the back axle? Can they even shorten the wheelbase without compromising the battery?
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