RE: New Tesla Model 3 Performance gets 510hp
Discussion
ChocolateFrog said:
911Spanker said:
JAMSXR said:
otolith said:
Nope - not a Tesla owner, just not prejudiced against EVs. Would have bought a Model 3 if I'd been buying my last car a bit later - certainly wouldn't choose a modern automatic turbo four over one. I can understand the scepticism from people who intend owning cars with charismatic engines and manual gearboxes, but the vast majority of the cars on the market would be better for being electric.
This. I love motorcycles and ICEs but EVs are just better for mundane day to day driving. 
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
jwdh1 said:
I don’t really understand where the enmity comes from wrt EVs , it’s not an either/or situation with ICE cars! We’ve recently bought an EV to do the mundane stuff (town, shopping, school runs etc) and it’s brilliant. On our EV tariff, it costs £8 to ‘fill it up’ and it will do 250 miles on that, compare that to any ICE car and you’ll come up short. Would I replace one/any of the Ferraris with it for a drive out in the sunshine; nope - but wouldn’t take one of those to the supermarket either…
I can only surmise that people feel threatened by them, in the sense that they herald an eventual end to ICE cars. That will be true at some point in the future, but we're a long way off of it.The vast majority of drivers on the road don't care about their cars. They care how much they cost, how much they cost to run, and to be able to do it in comfort and ideally with as much convenience possible. The vast majority of journeys are short ( 72% less than 5 miles in 2021). EVs are in my mind inarguably the best tool for this job because they don't need warming up, can have the cabin warmed up in advance without an engine running & with the doors locked. Mechanical sympathy is less impactful for EVs because there is less to go wrong. They make basically no noise so can be driven at all hours without irritating your neighbours.
If you accept therefore that most journeys by the vast majority of people are just mundane, repetitive trips then a "white goods" solution is obviously the best answer to that.
There will always be ICE cars in some form or another, though I would imagine in time (10+ years) it ought to only really be special cars that are making the cut. If ICE becomes a thing to marvel at, like classic cars, then I'd be all for that if it means the air quality, noise, etc has vastly improved in normal, everyday urban life as a result.
911Spanker said:
What's so funny?!
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
For every mundane drive (as some would call it) there is generally a spell where it opens up into a bit of fun. The trouble is, those who like to mock drivers who like ICE either don't care, or never did, about driving.If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
The i3 does all that stuff, but I never, ever miss it. It's just a thing which you can drive with one pedal.
911Spanker said:
ChocolateFrog said:
911Spanker said:
JAMSXR said:
otolith said:
Nope - not a Tesla owner, just not prejudiced against EVs. Would have bought a Model 3 if I'd been buying my last car a bit later - certainly wouldn't choose a modern automatic turbo four over one. I can understand the scepticism from people who intend owning cars with charismatic engines and manual gearboxes, but the vast majority of the cars on the market would be better for being electric.
This. I love motorcycles and ICEs but EVs are just better for mundane day to day driving. If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
Sod that for a game of soldiers.
carlo996 said:
911Spanker said:
What's so funny?!
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
For every mundane drive (as some would call it) there is generally a spell where it opens up into a bit of fun. The trouble is, those who like to mock drivers who like ICE either don't care, or never did, about driving.If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
The i3 does all that stuff, but I never, ever miss it. It's just a thing which you can drive with one pedal.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
911Spanker said:
carlo996 said:
911Spanker said:
What's so funny?!
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
For every mundane drive (as some would call it) there is generally a spell where it opens up into a bit of fun. The trouble is, those who like to mock drivers who like ICE either don't care, or never did, about driving.If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
The i3 does all that stuff, but I never, ever miss it. It's just a thing which you can drive with one pedal.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
p1stonhead said:
911Spanker said:
carlo996 said:
911Spanker said:
What's so funny?!
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
For every mundane drive (as some would call it) there is generally a spell where it opens up into a bit of fun. The trouble is, those who like to mock drivers who like ICE either don't care, or never did, about driving.If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
The i3 does all that stuff, but I never, ever miss it. It's just a thing which you can drive with one pedal.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
After 16 years driving BMW 330i/d/e's I've just changed to a new shape Model 3 LR purely to save on tax. I'm warming to it, you can't knock it for being quiet, comfortable, cheap to run, tech is good and performance is unbelievable. The speed it can go around corners with the low centre of gravity is very surprising and it can drop a current shape M4 in a straight line from low speeds, impressive as it is the involvement is just not there.
The performance model really needed to have less grip and more slip, not more acceleration. My A110 is slower but I know which I prefer to drive.
The performance model really needed to have less grip and more slip, not more acceleration. My A110 is slower but I know which I prefer to drive.
911Spanker said:
Yep. But what's a "mundane" drive? Maybe people on PH see going to the shops as dull.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
The M25, landing on a Friday, slow, and or gridlock. But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
It's what helicopters are made for.
911Spanker said:
Yep. But what's a "mundane" drive? Maybe people on PH see going to the shops as dull.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
I enjoy mundane driving but in a modern car/EV. Stick me in an older car with less tech, more noise, less power, slower responses, manual, bouncy suspension and it becomes more of a chore. Sure, give me an old 911 on a Sunday morning each and every time, but that’s not really the point. But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
The Model 3 is arguably a better steer than something like a 3 series, and that’s what it’s competing against, it’s not looking to take Caterham sales…
cobra kid said:
p1stonhead said:
911Spanker said:
carlo996 said:
911Spanker said:
What's so funny?!
If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
For every mundane drive (as some would call it) there is generally a spell where it opens up into a bit of fun. The trouble is, those who like to mock drivers who like ICE either don't care, or never did, about driving.If you can't enjoy every element of driving, you likely have the wrong car or don't give too much of a monkeys..
The i3 does all that stuff, but I never, ever miss it. It's just a thing which you can drive with one pedal.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
Durzel said:
I can only surmise that people feel threatened by them
That's how I felt. I remember driving into a motorway services years ago and seeing my first row of Superchargers and, as a lifelong car enthusiast, I felt genuinely put out.Then I drove one.
Now have one of these Model 3s ordered... it'll be my third Tesla.
JAMSXR said:
The Model 3 is arguably a better steer than something like a 3 series, and that’s what it’s competing against, it’s not looking to take Caterham sales…
Never in a million years is it trying to compete with a 3 series for me. Have you seen the state of the inside? It is on a par with Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot to me, and it isn't trying to be in anyway premium in my eyes. A Tesla is great at going fast, and being fantastic regarding efficiency, but everything else seems to have been completely forgot about for some odd reason though.
carlo996 said:
911Spanker said:
Yep. But what's a "mundane" drive? Maybe people on PH see going to the shops as dull.
But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
The M25, landing on a Friday, slow, and or gridlock. But for me, tipping my car into a roundabout is joyous. But I don't drive a computer game EV (or any modern car for that matter)...
It's a shame many on here can't/don't get fun from driving at all speeds but the relatively modern car is to blame for that and many, if not most, have not driven a properly sorted car...
It's what helicopters are made for.
cerb4.5lee said:
JAMSXR said:
The Model 3 is arguably a better steer than something like a 3 series, and that’s what it’s competing against, it’s not looking to take Caterham sales…
Never in a million years is it trying to compete with a 3 series for me. Have you seen the state of the inside? It is on a par with Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot to me, and it isn't trying to be in anyway premium in my eyes. A Tesla is great at going fast, and being fantastic regarding efficiency, but everything else seems to have been completely forgot about for some odd reason though.
JAMSXR said:
cerb4.5lee said:
JAMSXR said:
The Model 3 is arguably a better steer than something like a 3 series, and that’s what it’s competing against, it’s not looking to take Caterham sales…
Never in a million years is it trying to compete with a 3 series for me. Have you seen the state of the inside? It is on a par with Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot to me, and it isn't trying to be in anyway premium in my eyes. A Tesla is great at going fast, and being fantastic regarding efficiency, but everything else seems to have been completely forgot about for some odd reason though.
People do also complain about the perceived solidity of stuff - was interesting to see Harry Metcalf pointing that out, while also praising the relatively light weight - well, you don't get something for nothing there!
cerb4.5lee said:
Never in a million years is it trying to compete with a 3 series for me. Have you seen the state of the inside? It is on a par with Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot to me, and it isn't trying to be in anyway premium in my eyes.
A Tesla is great at going fast, and being fantastic regarding efficiency, but everything else seems to have been completely forgot about for some odd reason though.
Not sure the 3 series is the last word in premium interiors.A Tesla is great at going fast, and being fantastic regarding efficiency, but everything else seems to have been completely forgot about for some odd reason though.
As for everything else being completely forgotten about in the Tesla, I would disagree. This new model has a lot of improvements, like thicker glass, resulting in measurably quieter interiors. The new seats are way better than the last. There's a new screen in the back for the kids. Interior lighting is very customisable. And the general materials quality has improved quite a bit.
Just coming back to your performance related bits though, I dont think its right to sweep this under the carpet as if it doesnt matter. The handling characteristics are customisable, and the power delivery itself is much improved. Body control is better.
Also, have you considered weight? How does this compare to a bmw m3? What about a mercedes c63? This is lighter than both, AND the c63 is only a 4 cylinder, but still the c63 weighs more. This has a low CoG, and the weight is very central, meaning rotation is excellent.
I really cant wait to see reviews against many other cars. I think the outright performance will be pretty good, and it will take something costing quite a lot more money to beat it.
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