RE: Gatso 2 arrives
Discussion
havoc said:Gerrymandering. If I remember rightly, the number of votes needed to win an average Labour seat is c. 6000 - to win a Tory seat is around 9000, mainly because the tory seats are generally more rural and have much larger constituencies.
Whoa, whoa, back this thread up a second...
Look at the thread - the Tories got MORE votes than Labour, but only managed to get c.65% of the seats Labour got!!! how the f*** does that work?
As for the "It'll solve crime so it's worth it argument", I heard something similar on the radio the other week talking about CCTV and arguing how good it was because there was so much footage of the bombers of 7/7. They seemed to completely miss the point that despite them being picked up on so many cameras, they still blew themselves up and killed dozens of people. So how exactly did the CCTV help?
I think some of you have missed a key point here. ACPO are talking about this, but without necessarily seeking parliamentary approval for this - therefore its not actually the government that is doing this - its the Police. So we can criticise Good Old Tony as much as we like, but I doubt that this is his hair-brained idea in the first place (its a little too far fetched to come from his mind I am sure). Ok, not supporting Labour in any way here, and yes they created the environment for this to be possible. But I cannot see a successive elected government stopping this..... can you?
Conservatives get into power and can the lot? Nah, unlikely when they see the revenue. Also, since there is no direct control over the police (political pressure yes), what powers are in place to prevent it happening? Its a tough call, and if the Police decide its going to happen I doubt there is much that you, I or even an elected government can do to stop it.....
BUT, thats all immaterial. Its just not going to happen. I suspect that the original Sunday Times article was a manipulation of the facts to start with. Its taken 5 years for BT to roll-out ADSL to 90% of the population - do we really think the Police can roll-out monitoring cameras, their supporting networks and systems to all of our national road networks? TrafficMaster took 8 years to cover 95% of motorways and trunk roads..... the technical effort and cost is just astronomical. Imagine the outcry when they put in the budget for several billion to do this - how many police would this pay for? The british public is still a strong believer in police presence - so its Bobbies on the beat rather than technology. Also, ANPR is fundamentally flawed. The technology is good - but the database behind it is poor (DVLA). With 40% of records incorrect somehow (DVLA's own admission) its going to take Years to resolve. This isnt a panacea that ACPO want you to believe....
Oh, and hasnt a cap been placed on the use of speed cameras - official guidelines for the police state that there are to be no more new cameras, dont they? The public outcry against them makes the whole issue a major political issue. So the addition of millions of new ones just wont happen.
Its just a storm in a tea cup at the end of the day.... I am not worried about it.
Conservatives get into power and can the lot? Nah, unlikely when they see the revenue. Also, since there is no direct control over the police (political pressure yes), what powers are in place to prevent it happening? Its a tough call, and if the Police decide its going to happen I doubt there is much that you, I or even an elected government can do to stop it.....
BUT, thats all immaterial. Its just not going to happen. I suspect that the original Sunday Times article was a manipulation of the facts to start with. Its taken 5 years for BT to roll-out ADSL to 90% of the population - do we really think the Police can roll-out monitoring cameras, their supporting networks and systems to all of our national road networks? TrafficMaster took 8 years to cover 95% of motorways and trunk roads..... the technical effort and cost is just astronomical. Imagine the outcry when they put in the budget for several billion to do this - how many police would this pay for? The british public is still a strong believer in police presence - so its Bobbies on the beat rather than technology. Also, ANPR is fundamentally flawed. The technology is good - but the database behind it is poor (DVLA). With 40% of records incorrect somehow (DVLA's own admission) its going to take Years to resolve. This isnt a panacea that ACPO want you to believe....
Oh, and hasnt a cap been placed on the use of speed cameras - official guidelines for the police state that there are to be no more new cameras, dont they? The public outcry against them makes the whole issue a major political issue. So the addition of millions of new ones just wont happen.
Its just a storm in a tea cup at the end of the day.... I am not worried about it.
LexSport said:
If I remember rightly, the number of votes needed to win an average Labour seat is c. 6000 - to win a Tory seat is around 9000, mainly because the tory seats are generally more rural and have much larger constituencies.
Also the Tories were fast asleep at the last Constituancy Boundary Review and Labour got as many boundaries as possible skewed so that in former marginal seats their voters were in the majority.
Was driven down the M4 a short while ago and wondered what was the purpose of the purple cable ducts being laid for miles alongside. Perhaps we now have the answer.
Wow! The realisation that *something* more than just speed measurement is about to happen has hit you guys!
But youre still just whining about it.
Outraged? Are you REALLY outraged or are you just saying you are?
Like i've said many times before, this shite wont stop until groups of unconnected individuals ACT and dont just keep talking about it.
Still in your hands boys...
But youre still just whining about it.
Outraged? Are you REALLY outraged or are you just saying you are?
Like i've said many times before, this shite wont stop until groups of unconnected individuals ACT and dont just keep talking about it.
Still in your hands boys...
Went to an exhibition earlier this year and got chatting to the operator of one of the stands. He worked for the company who makes the numberplate recognition systems and he was telling me what is already planned for the UK in the next few years (if he is correct/to be believed!)
There is a huge objective to be able to track any vehicle anywhere and the way it is planned is through the use of electronic tagging of the vehicle itself. This alledgedly will involve special numberplates that are issued every year, like your tax disc and your MOT. Each plate has a built in electronic tag and will be tracked by thousands of counters all round the country placed at traffic lights, junctions, street lights etc.
The aim is in theory a number of things ie tracking vehicle crime, criminals, traffic flow for road improvement but of course it will always come back that these systems will need to be 'paid for' so tracking to enable road toll charges was also on the cards - no doubt speeding will also be a part of the equasion as they will easily monitor time and distance with these recorders and therefore speed.
He did tell me the name of the company that is already producing the test number plates but I cannot recall thier name.
There is a huge objective to be able to track any vehicle anywhere and the way it is planned is through the use of electronic tagging of the vehicle itself. This alledgedly will involve special numberplates that are issued every year, like your tax disc and your MOT. Each plate has a built in electronic tag and will be tracked by thousands of counters all round the country placed at traffic lights, junctions, street lights etc.
The aim is in theory a number of things ie tracking vehicle crime, criminals, traffic flow for road improvement but of course it will always come back that these systems will need to be 'paid for' so tracking to enable road toll charges was also on the cards - no doubt speeding will also be a part of the equasion as they will easily monitor time and distance with these recorders and therefore speed.
He did tell me the name of the company that is already producing the test number plates but I cannot recall thier name.
so we dont have any rights now, we ar going to be followed everyware, not only does my boss want to activate trackers on all our mobile phones (company owned) the govenment wants to see where we are every second we are on the road!!! BYE BYE uk Im outta here I have no problem With ANPR i think its a great system, and i wish they would use it more!!! but every 400 yards on the motorway and not only ANPR its got a little scamera in it aswell i dont fancy my chances of keeping my license very long time to either find a job i can walk/ride to or leave the uk!!! im not standing for this!!!
Ok Lads (and any Ladies)
Lets get a petition going!
Anyone started one of these before? How do we legally submit either 'online' or actual signatures?
Why don't we have forms to sign every 400 yards on motorways, as well as at supermarkets, petrol stations and in town centres?
There needs to be a united front from which to attack this utterly stupid idea, before it becomes a reality.
Lets get a petition going!
Anyone started one of these before? How do we legally submit either 'online' or actual signatures?
Why don't we have forms to sign every 400 yards on motorways, as well as at supermarkets, petrol stations and in town centres?
There needs to be a united front from which to attack this utterly stupid idea, before it becomes a reality.
My argument to this is simple the Police Force in general is under manned & massively under funded for the type of service we expect & deserve
What planet are you on?????? There's more police than ever, the problem is they're all too busy filling in forms to keep the looney left happy or off sick with stress because of the Miners strike
What planet are you on?????? There's more police than ever, the problem is they're all too busy filling in forms to keep the looney left happy or off sick with stress because of the Miners strike
havoc said:
All the more reason to use B-roads, country lanes and cross country routes.
Regards
Iain
Except everyone will do that, they will slow down, and all of us will no longer be able to have our fun on them!!!
Yeah, but theres some beaut's out there that no-one knows about
Regards
Iain
droptheclutch said:
Ok Lads (and any Ladies)
Lets get a petition going!
Anyone started one of these before? How do we legally submit either 'online' or actual signatures?
Why don't we have forms to sign every 400 yards on motorways, as well as at supermarkets, petrol stations and in town centres?
There needs to be a united front from which to attack this utterly stupid idea, before it becomes a reality.
It would take a lot of signatures for it to make any difference and even then with Bliar at the helm they would probably just chuck it in the bin.
If the AA & RAC had any interest in looking after the people who pay their wages(the motorist) they would organise something. Like they should already have done over daft fuel prices.
However, in the real world they just take our money and keep their heads down.
Doughnuts said:
Went to an exhibition earlier this year and got chatting to the operator of one of the stands. He worked for the company who makes the numberplate recognition systems and he was telling me what is already planned for the UK in the next few years (if he is correct/to be believed!)
There is a huge objective to be able to track any vehicle anywhere and the way it is planned is through the use of electronic tagging of the vehicle itself. This alledgedly will involve special numberplates that are issued every year, like your tax disc and your MOT. Each plate has a built in electronic tag and will be tracked by thousands of counters all round the country placed at traffic lights, junctions, street lights etc.
The aim is in theory a number of things ie tracking vehicle crime, criminals, traffic flow for road improvement but of course it will always come back that these systems will need to be 'paid for' so tracking to enable road toll charges was also on the cards - no doubt speeding will also be a part of the equasion as they will easily monitor time and distance with these recorders and therefore speed.
He did tell me the name of the company that is already producing the test number plates but I cannot recall thier name.
Generally speaking the technology is sound and works. The issue is the cost and time required to roll it out. Also, the numbers are just huge. I worked on the recently cancelled Lorry Road Usage Charge system for a vendor (in the technology area). This was a system to introduce tagging for trucks to level the playing field for UK and EU registered trucks - based on usage of the road network, rather than a fixed yearly charge (hence making foreign trucks pay for use of our motorway system).
To give you an idea of the cost - we were working on a £2Bn project. That was a part-solution / part-management system over 5 years. The important factor here is that we are talking about several hundred thousand trucks - scale that up to 26 million cars and we get to a figure which is just astronomical. Well, even with economies of scale, we are looking at numbers in the £10Bn mark here.....
Can we justify this? Well, its matter of priorities. Will an investment of £10Bn add to security of the public? Can the revenue raised (fines for illegal drivers and 100% RFL) pay for this? Unlikely. Well, actually lets be honest - £10bn to track our roads, or 3 brand new hospitals? Or even a tax cut? Or how about re-investment in our armed forces? Or how about an additional 10,000 police on the ground?
Well, as you can see - it would be a politician or head of the police with a serious will to loose his / her job to take this one on. Lets be honest - not going to happen....
Oh, and dont listen to the suppliers too much - they are talking this up across Europe as there is a lot of business to be won. But all you need to do is ask how the Austrian and German motorway tolling systems are working and are they delivering according to the plans? You can guess what the answer is....
It aint going to happen.
Brilliant isnt the "Labour Government" sneeking in a police state lets catch people speeding to make money under a guise of "were trying to stop crime"!. Its sick, We Must Not Stand For It!. Who do they think they are?!!! Their a F**kin JOKE! Who do they really think is going to belive that this is not a start of a money making scheme for them. And will we see any of this revenue? NO! Few rehabilitation clinics for junkies and other things i could not go into any detail about without being politically incorrect.
The police who are apparently streched to the limit and cant deal with rapes, murders or when someone is pissin on your doorstep obviously have plenty time to stand and watch cameras all day and send letters to people who drive at 71 mph.
The government spend their money well rather than on say hospitas where if you came in carrying your own head you would be told to wait 3 hours to see a doctor and wait six months for an op. But on a multimillion pound investement on cathin people travelling faster than the speed limit which is too f**kin slow anyway!
Tony has left a scar on this country which may never heal. And the money he has wasted is beond comprahension - but its not his money: Its OUR Money. We pay his wages its about time he listened to what we want him to do!!!!
Ps. Anyone here who starts a petition send me an email ill get names on it bi9_jk@hotmail.com
And the worst
The police who are apparently streched to the limit and cant deal with rapes, murders or when someone is pissin on your doorstep obviously have plenty time to stand and watch cameras all day and send letters to people who drive at 71 mph.
The government spend their money well rather than on say hospitas where if you came in carrying your own head you would be told to wait 3 hours to see a doctor and wait six months for an op. But on a multimillion pound investement on cathin people travelling faster than the speed limit which is too f**kin slow anyway!
Tony has left a scar on this country which may never heal. And the money he has wasted is beond comprahension - but its not his money: Its OUR Money. We pay his wages its about time he listened to what we want him to do!!!!
Ps. Anyone here who starts a petition send me an email ill get names on it bi9_jk@hotmail.com
And the worst
droptheclutch said:Really, what good do you think a petition will do? We live in a country where the Prime Minister doesn't even listen to the wishes of his own MPs, and you expect him to change his mind (and policies) on the say-so of a few outraged motorists? Britain isn't a democracy any more - FFS Blair ran a three-line whip to go to war.
Lets get a petition going!
Can anyone suggest a better place to live? My needs:
* a progressive social regime
* moderate taxes, with fair clear efficient allocation of resources
* good weather
* good quality tarmac
* cheap high octane fuel
* world-class motor-racing tracks
The problem isn't with Tony or the rest of the government, though. Well, at least not the bulk of it... If people didn't support these policies, the politicians would have been out long ago. The problem is that people want the government to do everything for them. They feel safer when the government infringes on their rights. I'd say that whose who want small government are in the minority.
It's the same way over here. What worries me is that talking to people my age, they want more government-run social programs, etc etc and are willing to pay more taxes for it. I'll often say "Do you really want to end up like the UK?" and they will have no clue what things are like over there. It boggles my mind that our forefathers fought for 250 years just to end up in a communist (since that's all socialism really is) dictatorship? 'Cause that's where we're headed. But think about it: when a person is forced to do work for no compensation, what is that called? Slavery. When the government forces you to work (in the US) 6 months out of the year with no compensation, what is that called? Taxes.
But I guess it all comes down to the fact that people would rather have the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and to bill them for it, than to take personal responsibility and do it themselves.
It's the same way over here. What worries me is that talking to people my age, they want more government-run social programs, etc etc and are willing to pay more taxes for it. I'll often say "Do you really want to end up like the UK?" and they will have no clue what things are like over there. It boggles my mind that our forefathers fought for 250 years just to end up in a communist (since that's all socialism really is) dictatorship? 'Cause that's where we're headed. But think about it: when a person is forced to do work for no compensation, what is that called? Slavery. When the government forces you to work (in the US) 6 months out of the year with no compensation, what is that called? Taxes.
But I guess it all comes down to the fact that people would rather have the government tell them what to do, when to do it, and to bill them for it, than to take personal responsibility and do it themselves.
I can see a lot of people registering their cars abroad..I know I will be soon! Foreign plates on a car they cant do anything about it. It's not that I want to speed or drive like a looney, but just driving a few miles over the limit you can be prosecuted and a greater chance of loosing your licence.
Dave
Dave
Parallels with a film i once saw......
You see, according to Labour's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigars the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jello all over my body reading playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing -"I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener."
All I wanna do is bury Blair and the rest of his pals up to their necks in shit, and let them think happy-happy thoughts forever.
>> Edited by deltafox on Thursday 17th November 09:43
You see, according to Labour's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke Cuban cigars the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green jello all over my body reading playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing -"I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener."
All I wanna do is bury Blair and the rest of his pals up to their necks in shit, and let them think happy-happy thoughts forever.
>> Edited by deltafox on Thursday 17th November 09:43
Maybe in the east of Belgium is a place to life, I've looked at the place Büllingen(east Belgium), its nearby(44mile from!) the "Ring" Nürnbeurgring Germany and also just about 25 mile from Spa Francorchamps! Belgium, so you can do trackdays and race at Spa, and drive high speeds on some motorways in Germany and ofcorse on the lovely Ring(Nordschleiffe) Germany
And most of the people in Belgium are nice I think, I'm living in the Netherlands, and there is also a big hunt on cars and all the money they could take from that by tax and special cartax(BPM) and high gassoline prices ect ect and many camera's, we are not free anymore and way to many rules! but we got nothing in return!
I''m also thinking of moving to another country, problem is, most other country's are getting more rules too...where can we go, and life more free like live was about 25 years? ago....no camera's and no speedlimit, but good old sence and understanding.
René
>> Edited by GTRene on Thursday 17th November 10:48
And most of the people in Belgium are nice I think, I'm living in the Netherlands, and there is also a big hunt on cars and all the money they could take from that by tax and special cartax(BPM) and high gassoline prices ect ect and many camera's, we are not free anymore and way to many rules! but we got nothing in return!
I''m also thinking of moving to another country, problem is, most other country's are getting more rules too...where can we go, and life more free like live was about 25 years? ago....no camera's and no speedlimit, but good old sence and understanding.
René
>> Edited by GTRene on Thursday 17th November 10:48
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