Rising bollards destroy vehicles, injure drivers!
Discussion
CommanderJameson said:
The risk of getting 
ed whilst trying to tailgate a bus through a mechanically-enforced NO ENTRY sign is, to my mind, acceptable - because responsible drivers won't do it.
ed whilst trying to tailgate a bus through a mechanically-enforced NO ENTRY sign is, to my mind, acceptable - because responsible drivers won't do it.I see, so you believe that the drivers that never make a mistake are the only ones that should be spared this nonsense. Can you honestly come into this discussion and say you have always seen every road sign you have passed and never made any sort of mistake on the road ever? You've never failed to notice a light turning amber/red for example? For that matter has your life generally been free of any sort of mistakes that you could look back on and think "Well I should not have done that?". Truly I despair of this attitude. Don't get me wrong here, if someone makes a mistake (or is a bit of a dick) - either way, they need to be reprimanded, they need to be stopped, but they don't need a bollard driven up into their car that could harm them and anyone else. I can see the answers to my post already - along the lines of "well they are getting what they deserve if they can't see the flashing signs", and, deep down, you know what you are saying is crap but you'll write it anyway. Then, if it it is ever someone you know who ends up getting smashed up in this ridiculous arrangement, you'll regret writing such ridiculous crap and perhaps concede that it was never a realistic answer.
welcome to PH Karlkrumour said:
CommanderJameson said:
The risk of getting ed whilst trying to tailgate a bus through a mechanically-enforced NO ENTRY sign is, to my mind, acceptable - because responsible drivers won't do it.
ed whilst trying to tailgate a bus through a mechanically-enforced NO ENTRY sign is, to my mind, acceptable - because responsible drivers won't do it.I see, so you believe that the drivers that never make a mistake are the only ones that should be spared this nonsense. Can you honestly come into this discussion and say you have always seen every road sign you have passed and never made any sort of mistake on the road ever? You've never failed to notice a light turning amber/red for example? For that matter has your life generally been free of any sort of mistakes that you could look back on and think "Well I should not have done that?". Truly I despair of this attitude. Don't get me wrong here, if someone makes a mistake (or is a bit of a dick) - either way, they need to be reprimanded, they need to be stopped, but they don't need a bollard driven up into their car that could harm them and anyone else. I can see the answers to my post already - along the lines of "well they are getting what they deserve if they can't see the flashing signs", and, deep down, you know what you are saying is crap but you'll write it anyway. Then, if it it is ever someone you know who ends up getting smashed up in this ridiculous arrangement, you'll regret writing such ridiculous crap and perhaps concede that it was never a realistic answer.
If I
up, I'll pay the consequences. If I miss a sign and have an accident, I'll take what's coming to me. And the bollards were NOT driven "up into their car". They're a barrier that raises after vehicles which had authorisation had passed, and into which these lazy, irresponsible cretins drove into. If you're so close to the bus/van/whatever that you can't see the bollards raising (and you've also managed to miss the giant illuminated NO ENTRY signs) then you're a
wit of the first water and you may as well have your accident right here as anywhere else. Ridiculous crap? Yes, in this thread there's been a lot, and it's all from the apologists-for-
wits camp. Deep down, I'm sick to
ing death of people being stupid, lazy s and getting away with it.TBH, this is not really about folks who make a genuine mistake through inattention or sheer bad luck. It is about those who knew full well how it all works and what is going to happen, they made a decision to wait and pounce, trying their luck. This is a conscious game of Russian roulette, they played, and they lost.
Balmoral Green said:
TBH, this is not really about folks who make a genuine mistake through inattention or sheer bad luck. It is about those who knew full well how it all works and what is going to happen, they made a decision to wait and pounce, trying their luck. This is a conscious game of Russian roulette, they played, and they lost.
victormeldrew said:
Balmoral Green said:
TBH, this is not really about folks who make a genuine mistake through inattention or sheer bad luck.
No, it's about abusing them.Please address the latter part of my post. What is your view on those who made a deliberate and conscious decision to play? If they are being abused, then it is self abuse.
mondeohdear said:
victormeldrew said:
apache said:
victormeldrew said:
The only downside is that this won't catch unlicenced and uninsured drivers who tailgate buses, but frankly I think their transgression into a semi pedestrianised area is not the most significant thing that need to be addressed there, do you?
But surely, if one of the main purposes for having rising bollards is to prevent ram raiding, then this is exactly the type of vehicle you want to prevent going through?
What is there to ram raid on that street, and what is to prevent a ram raider from driving in the other end?
Well, lots of shops and I believe it's also the same street as the Manchester lorry bomb in 1996.
Not quite the same street. Close though. The bomb was on Corporation Street, next to the Arndale Centre, opposite the Corn Exchange building.
krumour said:
I see, so you believe that the drivers that never make a mistake are the only ones that should be spared this nonsense.
From the video it looks as if the drivers were deliberately trying to run the barriers rather than having been innocently caught out by some devious council chicanery. krumour said:
Can you honestly come into this discussion and say you have always seen every road sign you have passed and never made any sort of mistake on the road ever? You've never failed to notice a light turning amber/red for example? For that matter has your life generally been free of any sort of mistakes that you could look back on and think "Well I should not have done that?".
Of course not but the difference between a simple mistake and deliberately doing something you shouldn't should be obvious even to the meanest intellect. krumour said:
Truly I despair of this attitude. Don't get me wrong here, if someone makes a mistake (or is a bit of a dick) - either way, they need to be reprimanded, they need to be stopped, but they don't need a bollard driven up into their car that could harm them and anyone else.
As opposed to deliberately putting themselves and others in danger by trying to get one over on "the system". krumour said:
I can see the answers to my post already - along the lines of "well they are getting what they deserve if they can't see the flashing signs", and, deep down, you know what you are saying is crap but you'll write it anyway.
krumour said:
Then, if it it is ever someone you know who ends up getting smashed up in this ridiculous arrangement, you'll regret writing such ridiculous crap and perhaps concede that it was never a realistic answer.
On the contrary I would tell them what a wit they had been. It is no different to trying to run a red light and smashing your car up. It is unfortunate if it truly is accidental, but if it is deliberate (as in this situation) then they deserve everything they get frankly. I reserve my sympathy for the unfortunates who were being driven by these windowlickers.Not sure if this has been mentioned, but watching the vid again, I noticed that cars can drive up to the bollards, and that there are cars parked the other side of the bollards?
So is the road either side of the bollards open to the general public, if it is, then what purpose do the bollards serve.
Maybe the cars all have permits or something?
So is the road either side of the bollards open to the general public, if it is, then what purpose do the bollards serve.
Maybe the cars all have permits or something?
vipers said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but watching the vid again, I noticed that cars can drive up to the bollards, and that there are cars parked the other side of the bollards?
So is the road either side of the bollards open to the general public, if it is, then what purpose do the bollards serve.
Maybe the cars all have permits or something?
So is the road either side of the bollards open to the general public, if it is, then what purpose do the bollards serve.
Maybe the cars all have permits or something?
That's probably it. In Amsterdam red light district they have those bollards to stop tourists cruising the windows in taxis. The residents all have remote controls to lower the bollards.
wolves_wanderer said:
krumour said:
I see, so you believe that the drivers that never make a mistake are the only ones that should be spared this nonsense.
From the video it looks as if the drivers were deliberately trying to run the barriers rather than having been innocently caught out by some devious council chicanery. krumour said:
Can you honestly come into this discussion and say you have always seen every road sign you have passed and never made any sort of mistake on the road ever? You've never failed to notice a light turning amber/red for example? For that matter has your life generally been free of any sort of mistakes that you could look back on and think "Well I should not have done that?".
Of course not but the difference between a simple mistake and deliberately doing something you shouldn't should be obvious even to the meanest intellect. krumour said:
Truly I despair of this attitude. Don't get me wrong here, if someone makes a mistake (or is a bit of a dick) - either way, they need to be reprimanded, they need to be stopped, but they don't need a bollard driven up into their car that could harm them and anyone else.
As opposed to deliberately putting themselves and others in danger by trying to get one over on "the system". krumour said:
I can see the answers to my post already - along the lines of "well they are getting what they deserve if they can't see the flashing signs", and, deep down, you know what you are saying is crap but you'll write it anyway.
krumour said:
Then, if it it is ever someone you know who ends up getting smashed up in this ridiculous arrangement, you'll regret writing such ridiculous crap and perhaps concede that it was never a realistic answer.
On the contrary I would tell them what a wit they had been. It is no different to trying to run a red light and smashing your car up. It is unfortunate if it truly is accidental, but if it is deliberate (as in this situation) then they deserve everything they get frankly. I reserve my sympathy for the unfortunates who were being driven by these windowlickers.ww you seem to have acknowledged his point with one sentance and had a rant about something else
I don't think anyone has sympathy with the muppets on the vid
Cannot believe that this thread has started up again.
It's a fruitless exercise though - some of us believe that the bollards are acceptable and some don't, and thirty-odd pages of debate hasn't changed anyones minds. Perhaps it's just about time to let this one rest?!
For the record, if someone did genuinely miss all the signs and signals (and the bollards themselves) and accidentally crashed into one of these things, then they've received a nice thick slice of tough luck. But life is tough, it's not always fair and we can't always mollycuddle people and protect them from everything in the world.
When a driver makes a mistake they need to admit that mistake and move on, accepting that their actions caused the problem (intentionally or not). A person might not intentionally run a red traffic light but, should they run that light and hit another vehicle, they have to accept responsibility for it. Can anyone here put their hand on heart and say that such an act shouldn't be their responsibility? Roads are full of signs and warnings, and many of these can be 'ignored' without putting anything in the way of harm. Some signs cannot be ignored though, and the consequences are not mitigated by the fact that other ignorances do not result in damage. At the end of the day the warning was there, reasonable steps were taken to make sure everyone would adhere to that warning, no other steps can be taken to protect those who simply don't see it or ignore it. That's what warning signs are there for, to warn of possible dangers.
Should I ever be in the position of accidentally hitting one of these things, or I ever know someone who does, I will not be able to blame anyone other than the person doing the driving.
Here though we're not arguing about how unfortunate someone might be should they accidentally hit a raising bollard, because the video footage we have doesn't show that. It shows people deliberately gunning the bollards, trying to cheat the system. They all know fully-well what the bollards will do, but they go ahead and try to get through anyway. In essence they deliberately drive right into the bollards, that's what they do. Such an act is absolutely their fault, and in fact these people should be fined and sued for any damage they may have caused, emergency services coming out, etc.
To the people who think that driving into one of these bollards can be the fault of anyone other than the driver...get a grip!
It's a fruitless exercise though - some of us believe that the bollards are acceptable and some don't, and thirty-odd pages of debate hasn't changed anyones minds. Perhaps it's just about time to let this one rest?!
For the record, if someone did genuinely miss all the signs and signals (and the bollards themselves) and accidentally crashed into one of these things, then they've received a nice thick slice of tough luck. But life is tough, it's not always fair and we can't always mollycuddle people and protect them from everything in the world.
When a driver makes a mistake they need to admit that mistake and move on, accepting that their actions caused the problem (intentionally or not). A person might not intentionally run a red traffic light but, should they run that light and hit another vehicle, they have to accept responsibility for it. Can anyone here put their hand on heart and say that such an act shouldn't be their responsibility? Roads are full of signs and warnings, and many of these can be 'ignored' without putting anything in the way of harm. Some signs cannot be ignored though, and the consequences are not mitigated by the fact that other ignorances do not result in damage. At the end of the day the warning was there, reasonable steps were taken to make sure everyone would adhere to that warning, no other steps can be taken to protect those who simply don't see it or ignore it. That's what warning signs are there for, to warn of possible dangers.
Should I ever be in the position of accidentally hitting one of these things, or I ever know someone who does, I will not be able to blame anyone other than the person doing the driving.
Here though we're not arguing about how unfortunate someone might be should they accidentally hit a raising bollard, because the video footage we have doesn't show that. It shows people deliberately gunning the bollards, trying to cheat the system. They all know fully-well what the bollards will do, but they go ahead and try to get through anyway. In essence they deliberately drive right into the bollards, that's what they do. Such an act is absolutely their fault, and in fact these people should be fined and sued for any damage they may have caused, emergency services coming out, etc.
To the people who think that driving into one of these bollards can be the fault of anyone other than the driver...get a grip!
[quote=ehyouwhatIn essence they deliberately drive right into the bollards, that's what they do. Such an act is absolutely their fault, and in fact these people should be fined and sued for any damage they may have caused, emergency services coming out, etc.[/quote]
The law is the law and it's an arse. The reasons for them being there or not shouldn't be in doubt I don't think, I'm sure if there was a very valid reason for them being used then alot of the people who don't support them suddenly would.
The fact is, they are there, they are signed and clearly visible.
If you can't see these, you are just as likely to drive onto a level crossing with a train coming and we know the potential results of that!
I just say dumbasses would let them be a hazard to them, and they are dumbass stopping devices in the first place... idiots will always let idiotic things happen to them, why protect the idiots from themselves even more? Thats why the bloody things are there in the first place!
Dave
The law is the law and it's an arse. The reasons for them being there or not shouldn't be in doubt I don't think, I'm sure if there was a very valid reason for them being used then alot of the people who don't support them suddenly would.
The fact is, they are there, they are signed and clearly visible.
If you can't see these, you are just as likely to drive onto a level crossing with a train coming and we know the potential results of that!
I just say dumbasses would let them be a hazard to them, and they are dumbass stopping devices in the first place... idiots will always let idiotic things happen to them, why protect the idiots from themselves even more? Thats why the bloody things are there in the first place!
Dave
Balmoral Green said:
victormeldrew said:
Balmoral Green said:
TBH, this is not really about folks who make a genuine mistake through inattention or sheer bad luck.
No, it's about abusing them.Please address the latter part of my post. What is your view on those who made a deliberate and conscious decision to play? If they are being abused, then it is self abuse.
Your first sentence was dismissive of what many people are actually arguing about, which is why this thread still rages. For a lot of people the argument IS about those people you say it's not really about; there is a holier than thou element who don't accept that "folks who make a genuine mistake" exist. As for the rest of your post (apart from the thread NOT entirely being about the morons as you suggest), I agree totally, and I have no sympathy either. Anyone who knows the bollards are there, knows what they do, and still makes a dash for it is a complete retard.
wolves_wanderer said:
On the contrary I would tell them what a wit they had been. It is no different to trying to run a red light and smashing your car up. It is unfortunate if it truly is accidental, but if it is deliberate (as in this situation) then they deserve everything they get frankly. I reserve my sympathy for the unfortunates who were being driven by these windowlickers.
wit they had been. It is no different to trying to run a red light and smashing your car up. It is unfortunate if it truly is accidental, but if it is deliberate (as in this situation) then they deserve everything they get frankly. I reserve my sympathy for the unfortunates who were being driven by these windowlickers.It is different than running a red light because in that situation no device has consciously been fixed in place there that may bring you to a shuddering halt. I am not suggesting these individuals be held up as model citizens, we are all responsible and accountable for our actions. There are alternatives outlined in this thread that would get the desired result. I do need to ask you though, if one of the people who hit those things had died would you genuinely have thought it was a result commensurate to their wilfully stupid behaviour. You would feel comfortable in a room with one of their relatives, instead of posting to this list, saying that, in effect, all has ended well cos had the deceased headed down that street there could have been trouble. People can watch all sorts of terrible things and have no sympathy it appears, so I am not asking if you have sympathy for them, just whether it is an appropriate outcome. I do wonder where all this vitriol comes from; this desire to make silly, rash people pay an extreme physical price for a road offence
krumour said:
It is different than running a red light because in that situation no device has consciously been fixed in place there that may bring you to a shuddering halt.
That's right, another innocent motorist fills the role. Perhaps we should have barriers or bollards at traffic lights too 
Edited to add: In fact, now i've thought about it, why the hell not?
Edited by Balmoral Green on Friday 10th November 21:55
Balmoral Green said:
krumour said:
It is different than running a red light because in that situation no device has consciously been fixed in place there that may bring you to a shuddering halt.
That's right, another innocent motorist fills the role. Perhaps we should have barriers or bollards at traffic lights too Edited to add: In fact, now i've thought about it, why the hell not?
Edited by Balmoral Green on Friday 10th November 21:55
Because then someone might accidentally (or deliberately) hit that barrier. And then it'd be the fault of the authorities. Obviously.
ehyouwhat said:
Balmoral Green said:
krumour said:
It is different than running a red light because in that situation no device has consciously been fixed in place there that may bring you to a shuddering halt.
That's right, another innocent motorist fills the role. Perhaps we should have barriers or bollards at traffic lights too Edited to add: In fact, now i've thought about it, why the hell not?
Edited by Balmoral Green on Friday 10th November 21:55
Because then someone might accidentally (or deliberately) hit that barrier. And then it'd be the fault of the authorities. Obviously.
There are different issues here. I don't know I have seen anyone write that the drivers are not at fault. We agree there I think. I am simply talking about the mechanism by which they are stopped and the level of punishment that is dished out.
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