RE: Supermarket fuel: is it good enough?
Discussion
DucatiGary said:
Tesco said:
it is unfortunately quite common for mistaken rumours to arise as to the provenance of car maintenance issues
...if you looked after your car you wouldnt fill up at a supermarket!
I've never quite understood this attitude. Do some people think supermarkets actually refine their own petrol? They buy it from the same place dedicated petrol stations buy it from. Everyone buys the same stuff.
Despite the various conspiracy theories involving Greenpeace, Tesco etc; isn't the likeliest explanation is that someone simply made a mistake which happened to affect certain retailers but could equally have affected completely different retailers?
Let's say that, over the lifetime of a car, a problem with a batch of supermarket fuel causes a couple of hundred quids worth of damage. Even if the supermarket didn't reimburse you, you could still pay for the repairs with the hundreds of pounds you saved by not slavishly buying V-Power. Why stop at V-Power, why not run your car exclusively on BP Ultimate? It's 240p a litre, but hey, it's expensive so that must mean it's perfect! Unless someone makes a mistake somewhere between the oil field and the forecourt.
Refusing to buy supermarket petrol because of all this is like deciding to switch your water supplier because their water tasted funny - it's still the same water and is still subject to the same risks of contamination!
Edited by risotto on Thursday 1st March 13:29
Well get this...
I bought some Potato Waffles from Tesco in Milton, Cambridge on Saturday and ate half of them last night. Since then I have been experiencing stomach ache and some spluttering, symptoms not unlike those described on here. I went to my local main dealer about it who said I needed a new stomach, bowel and an enema and they couldn't fit me in for any of them until next week. But my GP says I just need a big shit and a lie down and I'll be fine.
I just don't know who to believe...
bri_the_fly said:
Does anyone get inside the underground tank to check for leaks and cracks?
Or is the inside of the tank disintegrating, especially older ones?
Or is the inside of the tank disintegrating, especially older ones?
In the late 70s I worked in a petrol station. Their tanks were pressure checked by the appropriate government dept regularly.
They also did the odd check on the surrounding soil & ground water for petrol contamination.
You couldn't get inside them as the holes were (are?) too small.
bri_the_fly said:
only one solution, fill up somewhere you know is good!!
Which means what?
How do you know if it's good?
We'll probably find that 2 or 3 tankers weren't cleaned properly after moving a 'chemical' before being put back into petrol carrying use. I can't see the tesco tankers being used for anything other that petrol delivery, so it's probably BP or Shell or whoever is suppying them on that particular day.
I'd be surprised if it was solid particle build-up unless everyone effected has removed their fuel filters.
But I could be wrong.
Edited by Alpineandy on Thursday 1st March 13:52
hendry said:
Well get this...
I bought some Potato Waffles from Tesco in Milton, Cambridge on Saturday and ate half of them last night. Since then I have been experiencing stomach ache and some spluttering, symptoms not unlike those described on here. I went to my local main dealer about it who said I needed a new stomach, bowel and an enema and they couldn't fit me in for any of them until next week. But my GP says I just need a big shit and a lie down and I'll be fine.
I just don't know who to believe...
Sounds like they were Tesco value waffles, I always buy Tesco Finest and have never had any bowel related problems
hendry said:
Well get this...
I bought some Potato Waffles from Tesco in Milton, Cambridge on Saturday and ate half of them last night. Since then I have been experiencing stomach ache and some spluttering, symptoms not unlike those described on here. I went to my local main dealer about it who said I needed a new stomach, bowel and an enema and they couldn't fit me in for any of them until next week. But my GP says I just need a big shit and a lie down and I'll be fine.
I just don't know who to believe...
jezza l said:
My Clio trophy was affected by a fueling problem which started early Jan. The car has NEVER been filled up with a supermarket fuel and has only been filled up on BP ultimate and 99% of the time it's filled up with V-power. I experienced exactly what the drivers affected by this contamination experienced. Sudden power loss, regardless of gear, speed or rpm. Renault originally replaced the air inlet solenoid, but the issue came back i then had the oxygen sensor replaced. I've have probably thought it has nothing to do with contaminated fuel however i've heard from people that early reports thought V-power was affected by this. So anyway i'm just adding my experience.
I know the problem, i've got a megane exactly the same problems as your clio but i had to have the ignition colis replaced, i once had the oxygen sensor replaced but that was because the car was not holding its revs, sometimes would just cut out altogether when started regardless of hot or cold. Anyway back to the topic, i used to use morrisons fuel but then one day i filled up at BP and the MPG improved by around 5MPG, one day struggled to do 32MPG the next with n change in the way i drive got to 37MPG- although i never had any trouble when i did use the supermarket fuel, but now i always use BP/
TheM5man said:
My wife's car - a 206CC - has just died and the garage confirm the oxygen sensors have gone and indeed it looks like the petrol. ... They are keeping samples of the petrol as evidence. Someone somewhere is going to pay and it ain't going to be me!!
Tell them to keep the old oxygen sensors and ask them to explain the nature of the failure.
As I understand it (possibly wrong)
A trick I've heard of but never had confirmed, if you have a car that's over the emission limit and thus will fail the MOT, if you had 5 litres of petrol in your tank, add another 5 litres of alcohol/ethanol to the tank, the engine will run a little hot but the emission reading will be much lower, after the test brim the tank with petrol and let it run through.
Now if this 'bad batch' of fuel had a high ethanol content then the O2 sensor would tell the computer that the car is running lean and will add more fuel to the mix, however you'd now be running rich which would be like driving with your choke out, the ECU would struggle to regulate the engine and it would run like crap/break down.
Would have to be a substantially high ethanol content though.
Even so can't see it actually breaking anything, an ECU reset and the tank drained would cure it.
Feel sorry for owners of Jap cars forking out for new O2 sensors, they charge a fortune for them, I'll stick to my trusty Pontiac, they cost a whole $16!
A trick I've heard of but never had confirmed, if you have a car that's over the emission limit and thus will fail the MOT, if you had 5 litres of petrol in your tank, add another 5 litres of alcohol/ethanol to the tank, the engine will run a little hot but the emission reading will be much lower, after the test brim the tank with petrol and let it run through.
Now if this 'bad batch' of fuel had a high ethanol content then the O2 sensor would tell the computer that the car is running lean and will add more fuel to the mix, however you'd now be running rich which would be like driving with your choke out, the ECU would struggle to regulate the engine and it would run like crap/break down.
Would have to be a substantially high ethanol content though.
Even so can't see it actually breaking anything, an ECU reset and the tank drained would cure it.
Feel sorry for owners of Jap cars forking out for new O2 sensors, they charge a fortune for them, I'll stick to my trusty Pontiac, they cost a whole $16!
Got this from the BBC website comment section........
"Similar problem was experienced years ago in South Africa where up to 10%alcohol was added to petrol.
The problem was not actually with the quality of the fuel but was due to the fact that where water is not soluble in petrol,it is in water.
Generally there is some water in underground fuel tanks;this isn't a problem with straight petrol as it doesn't mix.As soon as alcohol is added to the fuel it allows residual water to mix with petrol and affects the fuel quality that gets pumped into cars" R Seagrief
Any truth in it?
"Similar problem was experienced years ago in South Africa where up to 10%alcohol was added to petrol.
The problem was not actually with the quality of the fuel but was due to the fact that where water is not soluble in petrol,it is in water.
Generally there is some water in underground fuel tanks;this isn't a problem with straight petrol as it doesn't mix.As soon as alcohol is added to the fuel it allows residual water to mix with petrol and affects the fuel quality that gets pumped into cars" R Seagrief
Any truth in it?
The motor garages & mechanics must be laughing all the way to the bank over this. The mechanics love it when women turn up with their cars not working, since women know nothing about cars and can be fooled into paying anything just to get "Poopsie", back on the road. And of course, since the problem is caused by filling up at the supermarket - it's mostly women who are affected!
Heh..
[ducks]
Heh..
[ducks]
Eddy5 said:
I'm an auto engineer working for a supplier of EMS (Engine Management Systems) to manufacturers, and can see no way that if ethanol was added to the petrol it would damage the oxygen sensor. They are usually messed up by oil contaminates or lead contaminates in the fuel. My guess as to the reason they are changing the sensor is that the EMS is falsely diagnosing a fault with the sensor, as it was never calibrated to see an ethanol fuel.
That was my thought; too much ethanol in the mix confusing the fueling system...
Eddy5 said:
My first thing to do would be to drain the fuel tank, fill up with a good source of fuel and then clear the fault codes and see what happens. I'd expect everything to be fine.
Yup, "technicians" doing error X means replace Y without understanding what X means or what Y is trying to do is the problem.
the_sheriff said:
The problem was not actually with the quality of the fuel but was due to the fact that where water is not soluble in petrol,it is in water.
Hehe, I guess water would be soluble in water
I assume that you meant alcohol. I can't comment on this in so far as ethanol, but I seem to be able to get water to mix fairly well at home with my whiskey....... Tastes a bit different mind... It does sound feasible though.
Lord-Flasheart said:
I only fill up at Shell 'cos I am a dedicated Ferrari Fan (Bit sad I know 
)
)and I go there because they featured an Alfa Romeo on their advert (for the advert talking about their affiliation with Ferrari!, duh!)
Not really, I go with them...because my local one charges the same as the supermarkets, and I also get "plus points" !
Isn't it incredible how few facts and sensible comments are avaialble on the net on TV or the papers. From first principles and past exerience....oxygen sensors used to be very sensitive and expensive surface active devices prone to contamination or even burn out. If a contaminant in a fuel causes a sensor to fail what is the failure mode...no signal or out of normal range high or low does that cause the control system to stop the engine, goto limp home or give the engine completely the wrong fuel mix... a'low' oxygen means rich therefore system should cut back on fuel & lose power and raise exhaust temperature...and vice versa. It seems to me that a sensitive device such as an O2 sensor should just be a trim device i.e. only affect the fuel/air ratio over a few % +/- to maximise power or economy whatever the set up priority is. Loss of the sensor should therefore bring up an alarm only. safety wise I wouldn't like to have the bloody engine go to limp home mode whilst accerating onto a motorway etc. A full fuel analysis should be available in hours and ditto for any deposits in the fuel or on a failed sensor IF anyone is taking it seriously LIKE £MULTI-BILLION TESCOS SHOULD BE. Does anyone out there really know what's going on and how these systems are set up as I described (by guesswork) above.
I agree most likely the sensor is ok and just unable to get the injectors to pump enough fuel and will then set a fail light. Thats if the ethanol content is too high. Some ECM's allow up to 25% fuel correction through the fuel trims. Over that its out of range. Pure ethanol requires 100% more fuel in the engine than petrol.
The car wont go rich, but lean as mentioned because the injectors need to pump way more fuel. But being petrol injectors they run out of huff before it gets to stoimetric.
The car wont go rich, but lean as mentioned because the injectors need to pump way more fuel. But being petrol injectors they run out of huff before it gets to stoimetric.
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