Discussion
RobboC said:
Hahaha! Was actually linked to another 'supercar spotting' thread on here from a Lotus forum, and then saw and became enthralled. I should of been cleaning the cars today, but got into reading this instead.
Very much looking forward to seeing the choice in colour. I too favour the blues, from a 'smurf blue' Renault Clio, to a deeper blue Megane R26 to my ice blue S2 Elise (very similar colour to the F1 just posted).
The blue on mine is pretty good, but it's not great.Very much looking forward to seeing the choice in colour. I too favour the blues, from a 'smurf blue' Renault Clio, to a deeper blue Megane R26 to my ice blue S2 Elise (very similar colour to the F1 just posted).
The thing is, of all the F1s that I've seen (probably 25 or so), I don't think I've ever seen one on which the paint choice was excellent. I find this odd, insofar as the proportions and contours of the car itself are quite nice. It's just does not seem to want to be a real colour.
It's a tricky choice, and as I've come to understand from reading, a hugely expensive one.
From the photos, I think your current colour looks superb, especially with the black wheels, but things can look different in the flesh.
I do like red, which also looks good with black wheels, but I tend to think getting the right red would be harder than getting the right blue.
From the photos, I think your current colour looks superb, especially with the black wheels, but things can look different in the flesh.
I do like red, which also looks good with black wheels, but I tend to think getting the right red would be harder than getting the right blue.
Speaking of the choice of blue, I was reminded of this thread and the F1 colour dilemma the other day when I was in a BMW motorbike dealership. I don't know if it has been suggested or considered in the past, but the blue that BMW use on their HP2 line of bikes looked like it could be a nice option imho. It has the BMW link going for it too.
I had a look online to find a sample, but moreso than usual, the colour on screen looks way, way different to the reality, often looking either over saturated or almost purple in pictures. I think this is the closest that I could find, though I think that it may be a little stronger than it looks here:
I had a look online to find a sample, but moreso than usual, the colour on screen looks way, way different to the reality, often looking either over saturated or almost purple in pictures. I think this is the closest that I could find, though I think that it may be a little stronger than it looks here:
Edited by uriel on Monday 25th August 00:08
Flemke this may have been noted on here before but I have just watched one or two vids of F1's being driven and the nose seems to have a lot of suspension travel and under speed/heavy acceleration the nose is actually quite high up. Is this an issue in terms of handling?
Also the brakes are meant to be pants. Is this due to fade and if so is it not possible to have some slightly larger custom carbon ceramic ones made up?
Also the brakes are meant to be pants. Is this due to fade and if so is it not possible to have some slightly larger custom carbon ceramic ones made up?
flemke said:
The blue on mine is pretty good, but it's not great.
The thing is, of all the F1s that I've seen (probably 25 or so), I don't think I've ever seen one on which the paint choice was excellent. I find this odd, insofar as the proportions and contours of the car itself are quite nice. It's just does not seem to want to be a real colour.
I still remember seeing a chocolate brown F1 in the final assembly shop in Woking; it was ghastly. It even had a beige interior. Supposedly it was being built for Ron himself but he decided he didn't want it.The thing is, of all the F1s that I've seen (probably 25 or so), I don't think I've ever seen one on which the paint choice was excellent. I find this odd, insofar as the proportions and contours of the car itself are quite nice. It's just does not seem to want to be a real colour.
RobboC said:
It's a tricky choice, and as I've come to understand from reading, a hugely expensive one.
From the photos, I think your current colour looks superb, especially with the black wheels, but things can look different in the flesh.
I do like red, which also looks good with black wheels, but I tend to think getting the right red would be harder than getting the right blue.
With respect, I'd suggest that getting a good red is much easier than getting a good blue.From the photos, I think your current colour looks superb, especially with the black wheels, but things can look different in the flesh.
I do like red, which also looks good with black wheels, but I tend to think getting the right red would be harder than getting the right blue.
Blues tend to look best with metal flake in them. Metal flake evokes a sense of GT-ness, however, which I am trying to avoid. Also, many of the best blue cars are older ones with chrome elements such as bumpers and wire wheels that work against the blue. A few F1s have been painted various metallic blues, and in all of them the colour falls apart, visually.
The big problem with blue is that it changes with the ambient light much more than any other colour does. When you're choosing a blue, are you choosing one for a sunny July afternoon in France or a grim March morning in Britain? I have been amazed at what a difference it makes. All colours change with the environment, but blue is the extreme.
Red is a fairly easy choice, assuming that one can get past both the boy-racer and the Italian sports car connotations. The question with red is whether to go for a warm red or a cool one. They can both be good, so long as you can obtain a high-quality pigment or dye, but you have to make the choice. A non-choice in the middle won't cut it.
The quality of the pigment is less of an issue with blues, because the best blues on cars like the F1 have some grey in them anyway; a straight blue is too harsh.
uriel said:
Speaking of the choice of blue, I was reminded of this thread and the F1 colour dilemma the other day when I was in a BMW motorbike dealership. I don't know if it has been suggested or considered in the past, but the blue that BMW use on their HP2 line of bikes looked like it could be a nice option imho. It has the BMW link going for it too.
I had a look online to find a sample, but moreso than usual, the colour on screen looks way, way different to the reality, often looking either over saturated or almost purple in pictures. I think this is the closest that I could find, though I think that it may be a little stronger than it looks here:
I'll have a look.I had a look online to find a sample, but moreso than usual, the colour on screen looks way, way different to the reality, often looking either over saturated or almost purple in pictures. I think this is the closest that I could find, though I think that it may be a little stronger than it looks here:
Edited by uriel on Monday 25th August 00:08
As I am sure you know, there is a massive difference between a colour used as a linear highlight against a mostly grey backdrop and a few square yards of the stuff covering an entire car body. My hunch is that anything that was chosen for motorbike highlights would overwhelm a subtle body shape, but I shall remain open minded.
Thanks for the suggestion.
jimmyb said:
Flemke this may have been noted on here before but I have just watched one or two vids of F1's being driven and the nose seems to have a lot of suspension travel and under speed/heavy acceleration the nose is actually quite high up. Is this an issue in terms of handling?
Also the brakes are meant to be pants. Is this due to fade and if so is it not possible to have some slightly larger custom carbon ceramic ones made up?
The standard F1 road car has a truly comfortable ride. This comes from the tyres, springs, ARB, etc. The downside of this is that the mass moves vertically a good bit.Also the brakes are meant to be pants. Is this due to fade and if so is it not possible to have some slightly larger custom carbon ceramic ones made up?
Relative to GTs, there's not an exceptional amount of movement, but relative to "supercars" there may be. Also, the car has a low ride height, which makes squat, dive and roll more noticeable to the observer.
These things were the result of Murray's conscious preferences. I've changed mine, but one could not call Murray's own result a shortcoming.
The brakes, on the other hand, were a matter of compromises. McLaren made a huge effort trying to get them "right", and I don't think that anyone could say that McLaren didn't know what they were doing at the time.
They had to balance the need for braking from cold at slow speeds - driving along one's driveway on a downward slope towards the public road - with the need to get a car hauled down repeatedly from 220mph on a hot day. This challenge had no precedent; the world had braking systems for road cars and also had braking systems for racing cars, but had none that were capable for both applications.
There also were secondary concerns such as pads that wouldn't squeal. To you and me that might seem trivial, but to many drivers that repeated unmistakable screech would be a deal-breaker.
ISTM that the decisive factor was Murray's antipathy to servo assistance. The best brakes that I have ever used on a car were on a 959, which predated the F1 by half a decade. The thing is, its Webco system was servo'd and must weigh a lot.
The advantage of a servo is that, when the pad/disc are cold, you can still get them up to functioning temperature pretty quickly. This doesn't matter on a racing car, when you're keeping the brakes hot all the time. On a road car, you can get around this by building more leverage into the system (pedal, master cylinder, etc), but the more leverage you have, the more pedal travel you must have, and you want to minimise that in an enthusiast's car where you want quick response and you'll be heel-and-toeing.
On the F1, you do get a reasonable amount of pedal feel when the brakes are hot, and when the conditions call for a hard push anyhow. What you don't have is the subtlety and sensitivity that you also need. When the brakes are cold (as they usually would be in road driving), you also have a bit of a delay before the pad starts to bite. It's a fraction of a second, but it puts you off.
Carbon/ceramic composites have a problem when they are cold - their CoF is too low. All modern cars with ceramics have servos to get around this (there was one exception, but it doesn't count because they didn't sell any cars and the brakes were crap anyhow). I'm not going to impose a servo system on my car. To do so would make life simple, but it would also violate the ethos behind the car, and respecting that is more important than making life simple.
I've got three options for improving the car's brakes, and none of them should require a servo.
Cheers.
Jenx said:
Flemke, talking of driver aids and computers etc...how would you rate a Noble M400 (which has none) in the great scheme of things?
And what about this for a colour choice?
Martin.
I've never driven one, Martin. I had concerns about the build quality, about the looks (especially the interior - that slab of aluminium on the console really put me off) and about the sustainability of the company. Also, I prefer NA engines, perhaps to an irrational extent.And what about this for a colour choice?
Martin.
I don't think that that particular colour, as it appears on my computer screen, would work on my car. At least it wouldn't work when I was looking at it!
Cheers.
I hear what you are saying, but it does depend on the car, so often poor choice.
Blue wise, the nicest I've seen was on an old car of mine. Photos don't show it, but it really popped in the flesh
The smurf blue clio was an interesting colour, Gordini style.
The Elise I think is a great colour as isnt just a same old silver, it really shows the lines well.
Would you consider a metalic? Or are you intending to keep a flatter colour?
Blue wise, the nicest I've seen was on an old car of mine. Photos don't show it, but it really popped in the flesh
The smurf blue clio was an interesting colour, Gordini style.
The Elise I think is a great colour as isnt just a same old silver, it really shows the lines well.
Would you consider a metalic? Or are you intending to keep a flatter colour?
Edited by RobboC on Monday 25th August 21:26
Edited by RobboC on Monday 25th August 21:31
dinkel said:
Colours:
Interesting selection, Albert. FWIW, I'd say
Almost lavender Delage
- Going by my screen, this one is the weakest of the four. In real life, however, if it were to lose the lavender quality and simply be grey with a marginal blue tinge, it could look good. That wheel colour wouldn't work on the F1, but black with the right lightish cool grey might work.
Powder blue-ish Hispano Suiza
- Too greenish for me - reminiscent of the film on a pond.
This is a good example of how essential the chrome bits are in setting off an otherwise heavy hue and giving it some life. This colour (again going by my screen) on an F1 would be, IMO, a disaster.
Greek blue Delahaye Saoutchik Roadster
- Now you're talking. What I wonder about this one is how that turquoise would work against a more normal background and in bright light.
I think it might be possible to make that colour work on an F1 (again, wheel colour would be critical), although I don't think I'd have the balls to do it. Body-off resprays are not inexpensive.
There was a '95 GTR with "Jacadi" livery. It bore a blue that was superficially quite different from this turquoise, although at a deeper level the two colours are akin to each other. It was one of the best-looking GTRs.
Greyish metal blue Talbot Lago
- This is the second-most successful of the four images, but think how much better it would be if the wheels were that old, dull Dunlop aluminium type.
I do think, to my regret, that green is generically the best colour for an F1. (On my screen, this image comes up as metallic green, with little blue or grey.) If this particular paint were used on an F1, however, I fear that it would fall apart visually. The paint is too brittle- and thin-looking. It's got no substance, and the F1 needs substance - otherwise the paint is incongruous with what's underneath.
Cheers.
That Saoutchik Roadster is quite something eh?
I understand what you say about 'colour need to have substance'.
It might be worth to look at pre-war car bodyshops. They often have those old and firm colours.
Did you see snaps of the Peb Beach Miura roadster?
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=...
OMG that is a tidy job. In a colour you might like, maybe a touch too much green.
I understand what you say about 'colour need to have substance'.
It might be worth to look at pre-war car bodyshops. They often have those old and firm colours.
Did you see snaps of the Peb Beach Miura roadster?
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=...
OMG that is a tidy job. In a colour you might like, maybe a touch too much green.
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