[cyberface]

benzo said:

hi flemke.

whats the scariest moment you have had in your F1?

thanks

Probably letting Meaden drive it

Good job he caught the slide. Must have been expensive cleaning up the driver's seat afterwards, eh?

[flemke]

nightfever said:

Saw a program called 'million dollar motors' the other night. The guy with the orange F1 and matching coloured Hummer was on it Apparently he is a unique person so he wanted a unique car.

Glad he hasn't crashed it though.

Some times a thing is unique because there is only one person in the world whose taste is good enough to conceive or appreciate it.
Other times a thing is unique because there is only one person in the world whose taste is bad enough to want it.

[flemke]

Davey S2 said:

I know its been said before but well done for still being here answering questions (many of which have been asked several times) after God knows how many pages and posts.

I think the factory should print out this thread and send out a copy to every owner bound in a hand stitched calfskin cover in the colour of their choice.

As Frik suggests, if the factory were to offer an "Owners' Experiences and Insights" publication for other owners - which would actually be quite worthwhile - I would probably not be their first choice as a source. Or second choice. Or third....

[flemke]

benzo said:

hi flemke.

whats the scariest moment you have had in your F1?

thanks

I've thought about your question a bit, as it had never occurred to me before.
If by any chance you have read the antecedents to this thread, you may have read about some things that have happened in the car that were pretty interesting, if I do say so myself.
However, the only time, IINM, that I felt scared was when Chris Craft drove it. I had total intellectual confidence in his driving, but at a gut level I simply could not believe some of the entry speeds that he was able to sustain on narrow, badly cambered bumpy roads.

[R_U_LOCAL]

flemke said:

benzo said:

hi flemke.

whats the scariest moment you have had in your F1?

thanks

I've thought about your question a bit, as it had never occurred to me before.
If by any chance you have read the antecedents to this thread, you may have read about some things that have happened in the car that were pretty interesting, if I do say so myself.
However, the only time, IINM, that I felt scared was when Chris Craft drove it. I had total intellectual confidence in his driving, but at a gut level I simply could not believe some of the entry speeds that he was able to sustain on narrow, badly cambered bumpy roads.

That just brought a wry smile to my face.

In all my time as a Police instructor, the only student I've had who was genuinely talented was a lad who had been an amateur rally driver at quite a high level. He had his problems, as any other student would, but what differentiated him was his ability to put the car into a corner at very high speed, and sort it out on the way through the bend.

This was quite alien to me, having been brought up on the "slow in, quick out" philosophy, and made for some buttock-clenching moments and quite a few bollockings! Until, that is, I became more accustomed to his technique, whereupon I started to learn from him as he was learning from me.

It was a very enjoyable course, and he passed, but only after I'd convinced him to do it my way - at least just for his tests.

[flemke]

R_U_LOCAL said:

flemke said:

benzo said:

hi flemke.

whats the scariest moment you have had in your F1?

thanks

I've thought about your question a bit, as it had never occurred to me before.
If by any chance you have read the antecedents to this thread, you may have read about some things that have happened in the car that were pretty interesting, if I do say so myself.
However, the only time, IINM, that I felt scared was when Chris Craft drove it. I had total intellectual confidence in his driving, but at a gut level I simply could not believe some of the entry speeds that he was able to sustain on narrow, badly cambered bumpy roads.

That just brought a wry smile to my face.

In all my time as a Police instructor, the only student I've had who was genuinely talented was a lad who had been an amateur rally driver at quite a high level. He had his problems, as any other student would, but what differentiated him was his ability to put the car into a corner at very high speed, and sort it out on the way through the bend.

This was quite alien to me, having been brought up on the "slow in, quick out" philosophy, and made for some buttock-clenching moments and quite a few bollockings! Until, that is, I became more accustomed to his technique, whereupon I started to learn from him as he was learning from me.

It was a very enjoyable course, and he passed, but only after I'd convinced him to do it my way - at least just for his tests.

As I am sure you well know, Reg, racing drivers are immensely - sometimes unimaginably - skillful at car control, although often their appreciation of the social context and imperatives of road driving could stand improvement.

Btw, at the time of this drive (which will be imprinted on my memory for as long as I live), Chris was 67 years old.

The crowning touch happened when Chris was finished with the drive and we parked up. He had just driven a road car at a couple of orders of magnitude more quickly than anything that I had ever witnessed. He turned off the engine, looked to me, and deadpanned, "This is a great car. You know, if you spent a couple of days getting comfortable with it, you could go fast."

Edited by flemke on Sunday 22 April 06:32

[R_U_LOCAL]

*Visualises Flemke being peeled out of the passenger seat*

I bet you still show off the nail-marks on the dashboard in the same way that WWII fighter pilots used to show off the bullet holes in their spitfires!

[seasider]

R_U_LOCAL said:

It was a very enjoyable course, and he passed, but only after I'd convinced him to do it my way - at least just for his tests.

flemke said:

Btw, at the time of this drive (which will be imprinted on my memory for as long as I live), Chris was 67 years old.

The crowning touch happened when Chris was finished with the drive and we parked up. He had just driven a road car at a couple of orders of magnitude more quickly than anything that I had ever witnessed. He turned off the engine, looked to me, and deadpanned, "This is a great car. You know, if you spent a couple of days getting comfortable with it, you could go fast."

I love this thread, some wise thoughts and some just bl00dy classic comments..

[MJK 24]

Flemke,

do you think that the F1 represents value for money considering the advances in performance other manufacturers have made since 1992? Or does the value come from the rarity and the likelihood that we'll unfortunately never see it's like again?

Also, would it be rude to ask you Nationality? We know you're quite private so feel free to overlook this question!

Cheers,

Mark

[benzo]

flemke said:

benzo said:

hi flemke.

whats the scariest moment you have had in your F1?

thanks

I've thought about your question a bit, as it had never occurred to me before.
If by any chance you have read the antecedents to this thread, you may have read about some things that have happened in the car that were pretty interesting, if I do say so myself.
However, the only time, IINM, that I felt scared was when Chris Craft drove it. I had total intellectual confidence in his driving, but at a gut level I simply could not believe some of the entry speeds that he was able to sustain on narrow, badly cambered bumpy roads.

hi flemke and thanks for taking the time out. Theres an awful lot to read in this thread, but i guess its straight forward manners to do the research before asking questions. Apologies. I think i can grasp what you are conveying about chris craft. I knew a rally driver whom had written off 10 odd cars during his years of 'practice'. He took me out for a drive once and i was frankly terrified. When it comes to driving, im not shy, but I did not think that a car could be driven like that. Such driving seemed to violate the laws of physics. Could only imagine the added terror if the car he was driving was mine, literally cost a fortune and the driver did not really know the car.

Theres lots to read. Thanks again.

[flemke]

R_U_LOCAL said:

*Visualises Flemke being peeled out of the passenger seat*

I bet you still show off the nail-marks on the dashboard in the same way that WWII fighter pilots used to show off the bullet holes in their spitfires!

Or perhaps where the passenger footwell carpet had been worn away by my braking foot.

[Vesuvius 996]

flemke said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

*Visualises Flemke being peeled out of the passenger seat*

I bet you still show off the nail-marks on the dashboard in the same way that WWII fighter pilots used to show off the bullet holes in their spitfires!

Or perhaps where the passenger footwell carpet had been worn away by my braking foot.

I bet you could almost pedal it home like Fred Flintstone due to the hole in the bulkhead......

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Sunday 22 April 18:56

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Sunday 22 April 18:56

[flemke]

Vesuvius 996 said:

flemke said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

*Visualises Flemke being peeled out of the passenger seat*

I bet you still show off the nail-marks on the dashboard in the same way that WWII fighter pilots used to show off the bullet holes in their spitfires!

Or perhaps where the passenger footwell carpet had been worn away by my braking foot.

I bet you could almost pedal it home like Fred Flintstone due to the hole in the bulkhead......

Yab a dab a DOO!!!!

[flemke]

MJK 24 said:

Flemke,

do you think that the F1 represents value for money considering the advances in performance other manufacturers have made since 1992? Or does the value come from the rarity and the likelihood that we'll unfortunately never see it's like again?

Also, would it be rude to ask you Nationality? We know you're quite private so feel free to overlook this question!

Cheers,

Mark

Mark,

By "value for money", I assume that you mean whether, if it were made today, it would be worth its current market value relative to the prices of other cars in current production.
Some things about the car are outdated, the brakes in particular. Having said that, I'm not sure what Murray would do about the fact that a modern carbon/ceramic composite system requires a servo; he was opposed to servos in principle.
Another anachronism are the tyres, although they are easy enough to bring up to current standards.
A third element would be the electronics, ranging from the lambda sensors to the relays. Today's engineers could bring to the party incomparably better computing and self-analytical power.

When we get in the question of numbers, if Ferrari had thought that they could sell 2,000 Enzos for 90% of what they got for the 400 that they actually built, I have no doubt that they would have made the greater number. Porsche would have done something similar with the CGT, producing 3000 rather than 1270 if they could have sold the 3,000 for a decent price.
If the world had five times as many Enzos as it has, selling for less than they actually did, would each car be less good than the actual cars are? No, each would probably be better, thanks to the additional development that would have transpired along the way. At the same time as each Enzo would be better than what we ended up with, each car would be worth less than whatever they go for today. Therefore the matter of which would be more valuable - the better machine or the rarer object - depends on your definition of "valuable".

Back to market prices and modern developments, a considerable part of the market value of these cars derives from their rarity.
The rarity is partly a function of build numbers but also, as you say, partly a function of uniqueness - how different it is relative to the universe of such things. As I said above, there are many reasons why McLaren would not make more F1s, and why it is very unlikely that another carmaker would make another car that much resembles the F1 but in a modernised form.
Although the F1 was designed about 15 years ago, it has a number of features that have yet to be employed in another road car. In the last 12-18 months, Murray has written a number of pieces comparing the Veyron and the F1, in which he has highlighted the ways in which, in his opinion, the F1 is still a technical exemplar.

I'm not sure how well that addresses your question, but if you have something more specific in mind, other PHers and I can take a shot at it.


As to nationality, I'm from Mars. For some strange reason, however, the women I know all seem to be from Venus.

[hammerwerfer]

flemke said:

As to nationality, I'm from Mars. For some strange reason, however, the women I know all seem to be from Venus.

Long way to go for a date. Of course in the F1 its a dawdle.

[stuart b]

Flemke,

Your comment about the F1's electronics popped a question into my head. I understand that the main reason that the F1 is devoid of systems is due to Murray's philosophy of creating a pure driver's car.

Today, it seems as though many of the gizmos are getting to the stage where even some purists are beginning to appreciate their worth. I'm thinking of Evo principally (which may or may not be a good yardstick) who seem to gradually warm to sequential boxes, stability systems and the like. It seems as though the systems are getting more subtle in some cars to the point where even a talented driver can appreciate the car with them switched on.

If an F1 equivalent were being created today, do you think it would be enhanced or diminished by some of these systems? I'm thinking of perhaps variable dampers, throttle maps plus perhaps some stability systems. Or do these take too much away from the purity and need to focus totally at all times which you mentioned as part of the pleasure just a little above?

Thanks

Stuart

[AlistairOz]

flemke said:

I never timed it.
Even if I had timed it, it would be an irrelevancy, because I'm far from being the quickest guy at the 'ring, and I would always be taking it easy out there in this car anyhow.
Our best guess is that, with a professional 'ringmeister at the wheel, the standard car would do a bit less than 8, and after my changes it would do maybe 7:40 on road tyres.
The sticking point is lack of downforce. There are only three places in the lap where you've got a decent bit of straight. Everywhere else in the 12.9 miles, downforce matters.

This is a very interesting comment, since you must be one of very few who has some actual experience of the F1 and the 'ring. I have always been rather impressed wih the times achieved by the Porsche Carrera GT at the 'ring - it seems to be one of the quickest standard series built Supercars around the 'ring. Do you know whether the Carrera GT has a great deal more downforce?

[flemke]

stuart b said:

Flemke,

Your comment about the F1's electronics popped a question into my head. I understand that the main reason that the F1 is devoid of systems is due to Murray's philosophy of creating a pure driver's car.

Today, it seems as though many of the gizmos are getting to the stage where even some purists are beginning to appreciate their worth. I'm thinking of Evo principally (which may or may not be a good yardstick) who seem to gradually warm to sequential boxes, stability systems and the like. It seems as though the systems are getting more subtle in some cars to the point where even a talented driver can appreciate the car with them switched on.

If an F1 equivalent were being created today, do you think it would be enhanced or diminished by some of these systems? I'm thinking of perhaps variable dampers, throttle maps plus perhaps some stability systems. Or do these take too much away from the purity and need to focus totally at all times which you mentioned as part of the pleasure just a little above?

Thanks

Stuart

Stuart,

I think there are two separate issues WRT driver aids and gizmos:
- Do you want them in principle, and
- If you want them in principle, do they work properly?

WRT how well they work, in Formula One several of the teams now have a "seamless" gearshift which works fluently. Similarly (although using different technology), the Veyron's shifting is extremely good.
Contrast that with many of the earlier versions of paddle-shift, such as BMW's and Aston's, which are rubbish.
Another example would be traction control, which in Formula One is extremely effective: the world's best drivers are quicker with it than without it. At the other end of the spectrum, the TC on a modern Ferrari road car nearly killed me once.

I think that the reason that journos and reviewers have recently been more supportive of certain driver aids is that the latest versions finally work well. One's lap times might be quicker with modern TC switched on, and the clutchless gearchanges in certain cars no longer induce neck injury.

Most of these systems are not necessary, although many people may well prefer them. If I'm driving, I'd rather have the bulk of the responsibility myself.
Assisted steering reduces steering feel. Assisted braking reduces braking feel. I like the challenge of having to operate a clutch and coordinate revs, clutch, brakes and gearstick.
As for variable dampers, I think their primary application is to enhance the ride quality during boring driving, whilst retaining the ability to be responsive during more sporty driving. If you don't mind compromising the first, modern non-elctronic dampers are perfectly fine for the second.
I'd accept that stability systems are a safety feature than potentially could benefit even the best driver, but I wonder how much extra stuff you need to tack onto the car (weight, complexity) to deploy them.

The lack of power steering on the F1 led, IMO, to other decisions affecting geometry and steering ratio. I'm not sure that they were a good thing, although by itself the car's steering quality is superb.
The one safety feature against which it is hard to argue is ABS. In a perfect world, I'd be willing to sacrifice driver purity for the protection against being caught out by a fouled road surface.
TC is not necessary, although you need to remain sensitive to the car's P/W ratio 100% of the time, especially on mixed surfaces.
I'm not sure that the engine needs any sort of improvements elctronically. There are sporadic lambda faults, but all together it is the best road car engine ever made, so there's not much to better. Yes, it could probably be more environmentally friendly, but, if it came to it, I'd become a vegetarian before I stopped driving the car.

[flemke]

AlistairOz said:

flemke said:

I never timed it.
Even if I had timed it, it would be an irrelevancy, because I'm far from being the quickest guy at the 'ring, and I would always be taking it easy out there in this car anyhow.
Our best guess is that, with a professional 'ringmeister at the wheel, the standard car would do a bit less than 8, and after my changes it would do maybe 7:40 on road tyres.
The sticking point is lack of downforce. There are only three places in the lap where you've got a decent bit of straight. Everywhere else in the 12.9 miles, downforce matters.

This is a very interesting comment, since you must be one of very few who has some actual experience of the F1 and the 'ring. I have always been rather impressed wih the times achieved by the Porsche Carrera GT at the 'ring - it seems to be one of the quickest standard series built Supercars around the 'ring. Do you know whether the Carrera GT has a great deal more downforce?

Normally a car will lift front and back as speed increases. I've never seen or heard any figures, but my strong suspicion is that the F1 - which has a diffuser but is a fairly narrow car with just a rear flap, not a wing, and no front splitter - lifts too.
To give you one reference point, the 997GT3, which has a rear wing up in the airflow and a front splitter (but no diffuser) generates zero lift F & R at 200 kph.
At 200 kph the Carrera GT generates 49 kg of downforce at the front and 40 kg at the rear. At even 160 kph you can feel the DF begin to build, and the car grips the road better. In the CGT, the effect is unmistakable at 200+ kph. The F1 lacks this.

[daveco]

Flemke, is there any car you would swap your McLaren F1 for, or any other car you aspire to drive/own?