Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
GALLARDOGUY said:
ralphrj said:
They make 1 a day. Production should be complete by mid 2015 (if not earlier).
No. No, they don't.It does not take one day to make a P1.
isaldiri said:
flemke said:
The P1 is what, in my naivete 13 years ago, I expected the F1 to be: blisteringly fast, but within the capacity of a normal human being to operate. It turned out that the F1 is not within that capacity, although in time I have appreciated it the more because of that intrinsic characteristic.
By "electronically heavy", I presume that you are not referring to literal weight of the batteries, but rather to electro-technological systems.
The main things of that sort are the electric motor filling in the power gaps, which is I would say 90-95% successful (relative to the most advanced NA engine, say in the Laff-errari), the air brake, which by now is old technology but in this case is extremely effective, and the suspension, a refinement of the 12C's, about which system much has been written and which is a marvel.
As a poster above said, sounds like a major ordeal which I remember you had hinted at on some prior posts back in 2011. Good to hear you've got that mostly sorted now.By "electronically heavy", I presume that you are not referring to literal weight of the batteries, but rather to electro-technological systems.
The main things of that sort are the electric motor filling in the power gaps, which is I would say 90-95% successful (relative to the most advanced NA engine, say in the Laff-errari), the air brake, which by now is old technology but in this case is extremely effective, and the suspension, a refinement of the 12C's, about which system much has been written and which is a marvel.
Yeah I did mean the electric control systems. In the 12C, especially on track there remains somewhat of the feeling that the car's computers are applying a not insignificant filtering of the driver's inputs through the suspension/brake steer/traction control systems and possibly due to those systems, one does not and perhaps cannot feel quite as 'connected' to the car (and that's a similar case in pretty much every other high performance car made these days like say a 458 or the newer 991 gt3) as ideal compared to a more analogue car such as a 996 or 997 gt3.
Given the P1's performance capability is considerably greater than that of the 12C, one would assume therefore likely even greater amount of electronic wizardy going on in the background to manage that kind of power, was wondering what you would have made of that in the P1 especially in comparison to some of the other cars you have had or whether the calibration has improved to the point where it's seamless enough not to feel artificial.
I would say that the "foreign" element in the experience is not electronic intrusiveness, which normally cannot be detected far short of the limit, and the only times that normal drivers approach the limits are when they in fact exceed them and get caught out if not crash. That foreign element is the massive downforce, which for mere mortals dominates the behaviour of the car (in a good way) to the point where quibbling about traction control software is primarily the work of one's imagination.
johnnymaestro said:
Sorry to hear about your ordeal Flemke, but it is good to see your return. Many congratulations on the P1 order, if it was me I would be bouncing off the walls till it arrived. It will be nice to hear how you get on with it and what it is like running against the F1. Good Luck.
Cheers.Rich_W said:
I'm confused. (Yes, Yes take much!)
I thought all P1s were sold. So how can Flemke order one for a delivery 5-6 months away?
Anyway. Flemke, will you be selling any of your other cars to make way for the new one? Was that a difficult decision to make?
It was a difficult decision in the sense that it's a lot of money to be paying for anything, including a house. Insofar as the 12C is capable of greater dynamics than can ever properly be exploited on the public roads, one struggled to see the purpose of a car with dynamic abilities beyond the 12C.I thought all P1s were sold. So how can Flemke order one for a delivery 5-6 months away?
Anyway. Flemke, will you be selling any of your other cars to make way for the new one? Was that a difficult decision to make?
What convinced me to get a P1 were:
- a conversation w Chris Goodwin, who was very enthusiastic about how rewarding the car is to drive at socially responsible speeds amongst innocent bystanders, and
- thinking about the look of the car, which is distinctive and cohesive to an extent that pretty much no other "supercar" of the last 20 years (since the F1) has been. Maybe the one exception to that would be the Murcielago.
For a car to be a reasonable investment, amongst other things it has to look good.
Also, there cannot be a lot of them in existence. 375 is not small enough to ensure scarcity value, but it will help.
I did not sell anything to make room, as I have never had much room and ran out of what I did have some time ago. In principle I would like to get rid of about 75% of what I have, but unfortunately when I try to figure out what to sell I always come up with a reason to keep something. In the last 2 years I have sold 2 cars, although during the same period I have acquired I think 5, so progress has been elusive.
AreOut said:
heh, now I can brag around that I have posted in the same thread with F1&P1 owner
all the best with the car and many happy miles also hope you don't neglect F1 because of it, it's still an art on wheels and always will be
Thanks, and I agree about the F1 - it remains at the top.all the best with the car and many happy miles also hope you don't neglect F1 because of it, it's still an art on wheels and always will be
DanL said:
Rich_W said:
I didn't mean lead times. I meant when did he place the order. The inference I got was that by the time they unveiled the car publically the first time (Geneva?) they'd already taken the 350 slots.
Owns an F1 and is known to the factory - I'd imagine Flemke knew about the P1 before most of us!Roughly speaking, I believe that this time a year ago (post-Geneva show) they had no more that half the cars spoken for. The pace picked up quickly over last summer. They told me in early September that they expected to be all-sold by late October, and that prediction turned out to be right.
They are actually pretty good at keeping things down there confidential, including from F1 owners. If you were already an F1 owner, however, I think it is fair to say that you got treated especially well when it came to things such as organising test drives (which in any case were not available until after the run was sold-out) and getting a build slot as close as possible to one's preference. Also, on my car we have looked at getting a few "unofficial" options done, and the boys have been making a real effort to help with those.
blindswelledrat said:
flemke said:
Apologies for my long absence from here. It's a very complicated story but, in essence, about 3 years ago I slowly but surely began to learn that there was some clown who was trying to steal my life. I don't mean steal my identity, I mean steal my life - almost everything of value in it. A High Court Justice said that, in his 40 years as a barrister and judge, this was the most extraordinary situation he had seen.
It has taken a huge effort on my part to sort this out. It is mostly but not entirely done now, and the pseudo-human behind it, a cockroach originally from South Africa who in recent years has resided in and around Bournemouth, is now penniless. Nonetheless, one has better things to do with one's life than to have to deal with these creatures, who are not fit to live in proximity to human beings.
The above has however precipitated other, fundamental changes in my life, one result being that even now that the smoke has cleared I shall not have much time to indulge in fun diversions such as the PH Forum. When I am able, however, I shall do my best to participate.
Cheers.
That sounds far more fascinating than a car. Any chance of a more detailed update on that? Im intrigued. That's the internet equivalent of Angelina Jolie being behind a Chinese paper door saying "I am naked. If only you could see through this very thin paper you could almost touch it"It has taken a huge effort on my part to sort this out. It is mostly but not entirely done now, and the pseudo-human behind it, a cockroach originally from South Africa who in recent years has resided in and around Bournemouth, is now penniless. Nonetheless, one has better things to do with one's life than to have to deal with these creatures, who are not fit to live in proximity to human beings.
The above has however precipitated other, fundamental changes in my life, one result being that even now that the smoke has cleared I shall not have much time to indulge in fun diversions such as the PH Forum. When I am able, however, I shall do my best to participate.
Cheers.
flemke said:
I cannot recall when the car was first shown, as there was a series of teasers leading up to the first real-world unveiling.
Roughly speaking, I believe that this time a year ago (post-Geneva show) they had no more that half the cars spoken for. The pace picked up quickly over last summer. They told me in early September that they expected to be all-sold by late October, and that prediction turned out to be right.
They are actually pretty good at keeping things down there confidential, including from F1 owners. If you were already an F1 owner, however, I think it is fair to say that you got treated especially well when it came to things such as organising test drives (which in any case were not available until after the run was sold-out) and getting a build slot as close as possible to one's preference. Also, on my car we have looked at getting a few "unofficial" options done, and the boys have been making a real effort to help with those.
Care to elaborate on the "unofficial options"? Sounds interesting.Roughly speaking, I believe that this time a year ago (post-Geneva show) they had no more that half the cars spoken for. The pace picked up quickly over last summer. They told me in early September that they expected to be all-sold by late October, and that prediction turned out to be right.
They are actually pretty good at keeping things down there confidential, including from F1 owners. If you were already an F1 owner, however, I think it is fair to say that you got treated especially well when it came to things such as organising test drives (which in any case were not available until after the run was sold-out) and getting a build slot as close as possible to one's preference. Also, on my car we have looked at getting a few "unofficial" options done, and the boys have been making a real effort to help with those.
DickyC said:
If you search on "Pete Waterman McLaren" you just get Malcolm McLaren. If you search on "Pete Waterman's cars" you get random stuff. His passion is trains, particularly steam trains.
Well you say that, but.....In about 1990, a chap I new was getting ready for a season of Formula Ford. I was with him at Oulton Park when they were holding an open test day. In the pit garage next to us was something I'm sure was called a "Boss" car. Basically it was either an ex-F1 or F3 car but it was black with the gold JPS markings on. I was asked to go and see if they could let us borrow some tool and in the garage sat at the back was Pete Waterman. Apparently it was his car although he wasn't the driver.
Maybe he likes anything quick?!
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Heresy I know but standing next to a F1 and seeing the design / fit / finish of some of the pieces (indicators etc) versus how the game has moved on in the P1, the F1 suddenly looks 'old'
You are quite right: there are many things the F1 which, if done today, would be far advanced: the lights are one obvious example, brakes another, the modem now seems prehistoric. At the same time, I would say, to modernise the car would be to spoil it, as that inevitably would make it more like today's cars, whilst part of the appeal is that it is so different from today's cars. Would we really like it more if it had LED lights, drive-by-wire throttle and steering, a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, and the extra bulk of airbags and side-impact bars?
If the car were more modern, surely that would entail a machine that is easier to drive. Another great thing about the F1 is that it is so bloody hard to drive.
flemke said:
I did not sell anything to make room, as n the last 2 years I have sold 2 cars, although during the same period I have acquired I think 5, so progress has been elusive.
Great to see you back posting here again flemke. I know in the past you've not been too keen to give details of your collection but I'd be interested to know what sort of cars you've added recently. New or classics, road or track cars?Sway said:
Without specifically talking about Flemke, how can manufacturers withdraw support based on their owners doing things like lending to journalists or hot shoes?
Surely if it's been treated in accordance with the handbook advice, not over-revved etc., then they wouldn't have a leg to stand on?
With the F1, as I understand it McL aren't worried about guys like Lazante doing regular maintenance work etc., but they weren't particularly overjoyed at Flemke getting new uprights etc. made! They were still willing to repair the car after its shunt however...
All correct.Surely if it's been treated in accordance with the handbook advice, not over-revved etc., then they wouldn't have a leg to stand on?
With the F1, as I understand it McL aren't worried about guys like Lazante doing regular maintenance work etc., but they weren't particularly overjoyed at Flemke getting new uprights etc. made! They were still willing to repair the car after its shunt however...
Peloton25 said:
You guys might be missing the bigger point - when it comes to their road cars McLaren are an automotive manufacturer, not a tuning shop. They certified the F1 to be legal, functional and conforming to safety laws in one specification and one time period. They can't start creating one-off modifications that potentially alter the performance of the car without fully testing them, otherwise they open themselves up to liability. This development and testing are also not things they are keen to do with a project that was essentially put to rest about 15 years ago.
They were wrong to deny flemke access to certain vehicle components and he was able to sort that out, but to avoid involvement in the modification process was certainly appropriate.
>8^)
ER
Also correct.They were wrong to deny flemke access to certain vehicle components and he was able to sort that out, but to avoid involvement in the modification process was certainly appropriate.
>8^)
ER
Sway said:
Absolutely agree - I wouldn't expect Mclaren to actively support modifications and tuning...
What I was getting at is the frequent mentions on hypercar threads, especially Ferrari but also Mclaren and others, that factory support (which seems to imply servicing/warrantee/repairs) being withdrawn if an owner does something the manufacturer doesn't like. Is that a real threat?
AIUI, that is mainly a Ferrari issue. Apart from what I have done, which I think it's fair to say is atypical of road car "modifications", not much has been done to most F1s and 12Cs by their owners, apart from paying someone to polish them. What I was getting at is the frequent mentions on hypercar threads, especially Ferrari but also Mclaren and others, that factory support (which seems to imply servicing/warrantee/repairs) being withdrawn if an owner does something the manufacturer doesn't like. Is that a real threat?
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