Discussion
flemke said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Heresy I know but standing next to a F1 and seeing the design / fit / finish of some of the pieces (indicators etc) versus how the game has moved on in the P1, the F1 suddenly looks 'old'
You are quite right: there are many things the F1 which, if done today, would be far advanced: the lights are one obvious example, brakes another, the modem now seems prehistoric. At the same time, I would say, to modernise the car would be to spoil it, as that inevitably would make it more like today's cars, whilst part of the appeal is that it is so different from today's cars. Would we really like it more if it had LED lights, drive-by-wire throttle and steering, a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, and the extra bulk of airbags and side-impact bars?
If the car were more modern, surely that would entail a machine that is easier to drive. Another great thing about the F1 is that it is so bloody hard to drive.
Even if that isn't what he means, I personally find it interesting how modern boutique car makers can find the resources to build individual components without resorting to using truck rear lights & executive saloon mirror adjustments, it's a step forwards & is something that dates the F1 to the casual observer rather more than the brakes that we'll never get to experience.
One question flemke though if you wouldn't mind....
As much as the F1 is an icon, an original & high mark of the automobile etc etc, as much as you might not ever "need" to sell to purchase some other car, if it came down to it & you needed to........
What car would you ever consider part exchanging (or swapping, selling to fund or whatever) to own?
Doesn't have to be worth more, the same or less. Just something else you would rather own if you could get your hands on it.
SKN said:
Flemke,
I am always amazed that you have the time, good will and courtesy to respond to virtually every comment by mere mortals posted on here. I enjoy reading your comments and replies and I'm sure like many others, I hope they continue.
We are all mere mortals, except for those who think that they above us mere mortals, which delusion would in fact suggest that they are beneath us mere mortals.I am always amazed that you have the time, good will and courtesy to respond to virtually every comment by mere mortals posted on here. I enjoy reading your comments and replies and I'm sure like many others, I hope they continue.
northwest monkey said:
In the pit garage next to us was something I'm sure was called a "Boss" car.
Most likely a "Big Open Single Seater", a series where it would seem anything goes: http://bossgp.com/I'm afraid I had no idea who Mr Waterman was either, and I'm from the UK. I am under 30 though, if that helps.
strudel said:
I'm afraid I had no idea who Mr Waterman was either, and I'm from the UK. I am under 30 though, if that helps.
You were born too late, here's Pete Waterman in his finest hour as presenter of "The Hitman And Her", essential viewing after you'd come in from a pub/club in the '90's and wanted to carry on the party! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyatJ7nJD8
IIRC Pete Waterman liked Ferrari's, which would make sense.
anniesdad said:
strudel said:
I'm afraid I had no idea who Mr Waterman was either, and I'm from the UK. I am under 30 though, if that helps.
You were born too late, here's Pete Waterman in his finest hour as presenter of "The Hitman And Her", essential viewing after you'd come in from a pub/club in the '90's and wanted to carry on the party! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyatJ7nJD8
IIRC Pete Waterman liked Ferrari's, which would make sense.
It's not my preference for music, but they were very successful at making money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman
CraigyMc said:
anniesdad said:
strudel said:
I'm afraid I had no idea who Mr Waterman was either, and I'm from the UK. I am under 30 though, if that helps.
You were born too late, here's Pete Waterman in his finest hour as presenter of "The Hitman And Her", essential viewing after you'd come in from a pub/club in the '90's and wanted to carry on the party! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkyatJ7nJD8
IIRC Pete Waterman liked Ferrari's, which would make sense.
It's not my preference for music, but they were very successful at making money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman
Hence the reason I said the TV show was his finest hour.
That said I've always liked Kylie, but more in an aesthetic sense than an aural one...
flemke said:
You are quite right: there are many things the F1 which, if done today, would be far advanced: the lights are one obvious example, brakes another, the modem now seems prehistoric.
At the same time, I would say, to modernise the car would be to spoil it, as that inevitably would make it more like today's cars, whilst part of the appeal is that it is so different from today's cars. Would we really like it more if it had LED lights, drive-by-wire throttle and steering, a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, and the extra bulk of airbags and side-impact bars?
If the car were more modern, surely that would entail a machine that is easier to drive. Another great thing about the F1 is that it is so bloody hard to drive.
well said, what I would change on my imaginary F1 would be only wheels(those from #073 fit perfectly) and modern tires together with better brakes, I consider these modifications to be very subtle and not change character of the car one bit, just make it drive somewhat better/faster/saferAt the same time, I would say, to modernise the car would be to spoil it, as that inevitably would make it more like today's cars, whilst part of the appeal is that it is so different from today's cars. Would we really like it more if it had LED lights, drive-by-wire throttle and steering, a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, and the extra bulk of airbags and side-impact bars?
If the car were more modern, surely that would entail a machine that is easier to drive. Another great thing about the F1 is that it is so bloody hard to drive.
anniesdad said:
Flemke,
As said by others, it's great to have you posting again.
Look forward to seeing and hearing about your P1 when you get it. A question if I may, did you consider the 918 Spyder before going ahead with the P1 order?
S.
A bit. I especially admire the way that they arranged the rear deck and exhausts on the 918. Overall, it looks much better in the metal than it does in two dimensions.As said by others, it's great to have you posting again.
Look forward to seeing and hearing about your P1 when you get it. A question if I may, did you consider the 918 Spyder before going ahead with the P1 order?
S.
On the other hand, the car looks too much like all the other Porsches of the last decade. Also I could not get past the 300 extra kgs that one is lugging around.
The engine note is disappointing - it sounds like a high-tech cement mixer. I have no idea how Marc Lieb managed that 6:57, because, relative to the Laffer and the P1, the 918 feels like a lorry. Also, if they build 900 of them, it will struggle as an investment. The Carrera GT has not exactly been a winner, despite being a fabulous car and costing less than half of what the 918 will do. I gather that, even now, fewer than half of the projected build run is sold.
Saying that, it has by far the most development underlying it. It reminded me of the 959 - a marvelous technical achievement and display of what a company is capable of, but falling short of the excitement of its contemporaries.
flemke said:
The engine note is disappointing - it sounds like a high-tech cement mixer. I have no idea how Marc Lieb managed that 6:57, because, relative to the Laffer and the P1, the 918 feels like a lorry.
Ok, this comment intrigues me. Have you had a drive in the LaFerrari? And if so, how did it compare to the P1? Or did Ferrari make you sign some form that means you'll end up with a horse's head in your bed if you dare breathe a word about it?LaurasOtherHalf said:
flemke said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Heresy I know but standing next to a F1 and seeing the design / fit / finish of some of the pieces (indicators etc) versus how the game has moved on in the P1, the F1 suddenly looks 'old'
You are quite right: there are many things the F1 which, if done today, would be far advanced: the lights are one obvious example, brakes another, the modem now seems prehistoric. At the same time, I would say, to modernise the car would be to spoil it, as that inevitably would make it more like today's cars, whilst part of the appeal is that it is so different from today's cars. Would we really like it more if it had LED lights, drive-by-wire throttle and steering, a "pedestrian friendly" bonnet, and the extra bulk of airbags and side-impact bars?
If the car were more modern, surely that would entail a machine that is easier to drive. Another great thing about the F1 is that it is so bloody hard to drive.
Even if that isn't what he means, I personally find it interesting how modern boutique car makers can find the resources to build individual components without resorting to using truck rear lights & executive saloon mirror adjustments, it's a step forwards & is something that dates the F1 to the casual observer rather more than the brakes that we'll never get to experience.
One question flemke though if you wouldn't mind....
As much as the F1 is an icon, an original & high mark of the automobile etc etc, as much as you might not ever "need" to sell to purchase some other car, if it came down to it & you needed to........
What car would you ever consider part exchanging (or swapping, selling to fund or whatever) to own?
Doesn't have to be worth more, the same or less. Just something else you would rather own if you could get your hands on it.
Of the parts of the F1 that have been lifted from other cars, IMO most are fine, and I actually think the Bova tail-lights are ideal. In their own right I am no fan of the binnacle's rotating knobs, although they are in keeping with the overall aesthetic, which is akin to this from 30 years earlier:
Straight lines connected by simple radii, rather than by the more dynamic compound radii.
Anyhow, the one parts-bin element of the car that I consider to fall short are the indicator stalks, from BMW, I think 8-series. They are clunky, at that pinnacle of clunkiness that only BMW seem able to achieve, or even tolerate.
Thinking about designing my own indicator stalks, I went so far as to obtain a spare set from BMW, the idea being to cannibalise the light switch mechanism within and use it in something better looking than what some robot in Munich hacked out 20 years ago.
Ultimately, however, I reconciled myself to the fact that life is too short; the original indicator stalks remain, and I suppose I shan't be changing them.
Wrt your question about something that I would rather own, I am very lucky to be able to say that there is nothing that I would rather own (as long as I was able to have a second car for real life, that is. For the day-to-day, the F1 is one of the most impractical cars ever made.)
Cheers.
evenflow said:
flemke said:
In the last 2 years I have sold 2 cars, although during the same period I have acquired I think 5, so progress has been elusive.
Thanks as ever for the very interesting updates Flemke.Any clues on what the five were? Anything interesting?
I guess I could say that I was rather tempted to go to the dark side and get a 599 GTO, but then I realised that the SLS Black Series is the same thing but in a form that, unlike the 599, won't fall apart, so I got one of them instead.
lauda said:
flemke said:
The engine note is disappointing - it sounds like a high-tech cement mixer. I have no idea how Marc Lieb managed that 6:57, because, relative to the Laffer and the P1, the 918 feels like a lorry.
Ok, this comment intrigues me. Have you had a drive in the LaFerrari? And if so, how did it compare to the P1? Or did Ferrari make you sign some form that means you'll end up with a horse's head in your bed if you dare breathe a word about it?In the metal, the Laffer looks even worse than it does on the printed page. It looks so bad that it makes the Enzo seem attractive, and that is saying something.
Also, the Laffer's build quality is appalling. When TVR closed down, I think that Maranello swooped in and hired all of Blackpool's quality control experts.
flemke said:
I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.
I guess I could say that I was rather tempted to go to the dark side and get a 599 GTO, but then I realised that the SLS Black Series is the same thing but in a form that, unlike the 599, won't fall apart, so I got one of them instead.
Which variant of the A2 did you go for Flemke?I guess I could say that I was rather tempted to go to the dark side and get a 599 GTO, but then I realised that the SLS Black Series is the same thing but in a form that, unlike the 599, won't fall apart, so I got one of them instead.
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