[isaldiri]

flemke said:

McLaren worked hard on the P1 to create a "direct" driving experience in such areas as steering and brake feel and chassis predictability.
I would say that the "foreign" element in the experience is not electronic intrusiveness, which normally cannot be detected far short of the limit, and the only times that normal drivers approach the limits are when they in fact exceed them and get caught out if not crash. That foreign element is the massive downforce, which for mere mortals dominates the behaviour of the car (in a good way) to the point where quibbling about traction control software is primarily the work of one's imagination.

Interesting that, thanks for the reply. Look forward to reading more about the car when you get it.

[flemke]

Crockefeller said:

Which variant of the A2 did you go for Flemke?

All I know is that it has four tyres, three cylinders, two headlamps, and one nut behind the wheel.

And it runs on diesel.

[R_U_LOCAL]

flemke said:

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

I guess I could say that I was rather tempted to go to the dark side and get a 599 GTO, but then I realised that the SLS Black Series is the same thing but in a form that, unlike the 599, won't fall apart, so I got one of them instead.

Come on now, you can tell us the truth.

One was an MX5 wasn't it?

And a remapped 335d.

No need to be coy - you're amongst friends here

[Rich_W]

flemke said:

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

Am I the only person disappointed about this development?

Surely a Brabus Smart car like Murray had (albeit maybe not Kawasaki Green) would be a better choice. And I know it's "cringeworthy" (well done to the "person" that felt the need to post that above) but cheers for the answers. I imagine you have better things to be doing with your time than sitting here. So it's appreciated.



Anyway, changing track. IIRC you are a Merckx fan? Any thoughts on various current riders (FC, TM and SBW) possibly going for the hour record?

[HereBeMonsters]

flemke said:

evenflow said:

flemke said:

In the last 2 years I have sold 2 cars, although during the same period I have acquired I think 5, so progress has been elusive.

Thanks as ever for the very interesting updates Flemke.

Any clues on what the five were? Anything interesting?

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

I guess I could say that I was rather tempted to go to the dark side and get a 599 GTO, but then I realised that the SLS Black Series is the same thing but in a form that, unlike the 599, won't fall apart, so I got one of them instead.

Good choice on the A2 - they were a car very much ahead of their time. Would certainly be my choice if I were in the market for a small car for commuting duties, say.


Interesting what you say about the indicator stalks. They were always my least favourite part of my Elise, and I wondered if I could change them for something. In the end I got rid of the whole car, but that's another story. It just irked me having a bit of a Corsa B in my sports car.

[andyps]

Rich_W said:

flemke said:

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

Am I the only person disappointed about this development?

Surely a Brabus Smart car like Murray had (albeit maybe not Kawasaki Green) would be a better choice.

I am pleased to see it in a strange sort of way - the A2 was a really ground-breaking car in many ways, with Audi design going backwards since.

[flemke]

Rich_W said:

flemke said:

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

Am I the only person disappointed about this development?

Surely a Brabus Smart car like Murray had (albeit maybe not Kawasaki Green) would be a better choice. And I know it's "cringeworthy" (well done to the "person" that felt the need to post that above) but cheers for the answers. I imagine you have better things to be doing with your time than sitting here. So it's appreciated.



Anyway, changing track. IIRC you are a Merckx fan? Any thoughts on various current riders (FC, TM and SBW) possibly going for the hour record?

The A2 is a great car - holds 4 people easily, plus some luggage; very well made; looks okay for what it is; good driving position.

The Brabus smart has lovely wheels, but the rest is, well, it is a smart, isn't it? Whenever I ride in one I am waiting for one of the countless plastic components to fall off.

Eddy Merckx still is and always will be The Man.
They are calling it the "The Athlete's Hour", by requiring a bike that is superficially similar to what Eddy rode in the day - except that the modern "equivalent" will have carbon everything, aerodynamic everything, ceramic bearings, extra-low rolling resistance tyres, etc.

Today's rider will have trained with power meters, been fed on a specialist diet with every imaginable legal supplement, had his riding position perfected in a wind tunnel, and be supported by a psychological coach, a riding coach, an endurance coach, and probably a coach's coach.

In the same year, 1972, as Merckx set the hour record, he also won:

- Tour de France
- Giro d'Italia
- Milan-San Remo
- Liege-Bastogne-Liege
- Tour of Lombardy
- Super Prestige Pernod

He won all the above, and many other races, throughout 1972, and fitted in the Hour only at the end of that season.

I had the honour of once meeting Merckx and, as I and probably many others have said to him, he is the only athlete in a major sport about whom it can be said, beyond dispute or qualification, that one man was the best of all time.

[Pommygranite]

flemke said:

Rich_W said:

flemke said:

I'd rather not go into that, apart from saying that one of them is an A2.

Am I the only person disappointed about this development?

Surely a Brabus Smart car like Murray had (albeit maybe not Kawasaki Green) would be a better choice. And I know it's "cringeworthy" (well done to the "person" that felt the need to post that above) but cheers for the answers. I imagine you have better things to be doing with your time than sitting here. So it's appreciated.



Anyway, changing track. IIRC you are a Merckx fan? Any thoughts on various current riders (FC, TM and SBW) possibly going for the hour record?

The A2 is a great car - holds 4 people easily, plus some luggage; very well made; looks okay for what it is; good driving position.

The Brabus smart has lovely wheels, but the rest is, well, it is a smart, isn't it? Whenever I ride in one I am waiting for one of the countless plastic components to fall off.

Eddy Merckx still is and always will be The Man.
They are calling it the "The Athlete's Hour", by requiring a bike that is superficially similar to what Eddy rode in the day - except that the modern "equivalent" will have carbon everything, aerodynamic everything, ceramic bearings, extra-low rolling resistance tyres, etc.

Today's rider will have trained with power meters, been fed on a specialist diet with every imaginable legal supplement, had his riding position perfected in a wind tunnel, and be supported by a psychological coach, a riding coach, an endurance coach, and probably a coach's coach.

In the same year, 1972, as Merckx set the hour record, he also won:

- Tour de France
- Giro d'Italia
- Milan-San Remo
- Liege-Bastogne-Liege
- Tour of Lombardy
- Super Prestige Pernod

He won all the above, and many other races, throughout 1972, and fitted in the Hour only at the end of that season.

I had the honour of once meeting Merckx and, as I and probably many others have said to him, he is the only athlete in a major sport about whom it can be said, beyond dispute or qualification, that one man was the best of all time.

Slight O/T Flemke but check out 'The Armstrong Lie' - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1638364/

Interesting film but touches on Merckx and his fitness.

[R_U_LOCAL]

I find this comment very interesting...

flemke said:

Also, the Laffer's build quality is appalling. When TVR closed down, I think that Maranello swooped in and hired all of Blackpool's quality control experts.

I'm a lifelong fan of Ferrari - in the mid 80's my bedroom wall was covered with pictures of F40s and Testarossas, and in a way I've never really grown out of it. I'm very much aware that quality wasn't their strong point in the past - particularly fit & finish etc. 30 years ago this was seen as an idiosyncracy of Ferrari - F40s had a bare carbon/nomex tub with green sealant, a piece of string as a door handle and carbon weave visible through the paint. In 1987 these were considered to be desireable characteristics and an indication that Ferrari considered performance to be the only important consideration.

This may have been acceptable 30ish years ago, but these days, Ferrari promote themselves as producers of luxury high performance cars with cutting-edge technology. The game has moved on dramatically, but there seems to be a feeling that Ferrari are getting a little bit complacent - they know people will always buy their cars, particularly their limited run hypercars, and maybe they feel they don't need to try as hard with the details as the likes of McLaren and Porsche.

This "feeling" has got to me a bit and, even as a lifetime fan of the marque, if I suddenly found myself in the market for a super/hypercar, I honestly think I'd be looking at Porsche or McLaren, rather than Ferrari.

Some of that may be the older me thinking with my head rather than my heart, but Ferrari should be aware that the game has moved on in other ways than just performance.

[CraigyMc]

R_U_LOCAL said:

This "feeling" has got to me a bit and, even as a lifetime fan of the marque, if I suddenly found myself in the market for a super/hypercar, I honestly think I'd be looking at Porsche or McLaren, rather than Ferrari.

Some of that may be the older me thinking with my head rather than my heart, but Ferrari should be aware that the game has moved on in other ways than just performance.

Agreed.

Shown the innards of the likes of a Porsche Carrera GT versus an Enzo, the average punter would likely be shocked at how tatty the Enzo is and how jewel-like the GT is.

[rj1986]

CraigyMc said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

This "feeling" has got to me a bit and, even as a lifetime fan of the marque, if I suddenly found myself in the market for a super/hypercar, I honestly think I'd be looking at Porsche or McLaren, rather than Ferrari.

Some of that may be the older me thinking with my head rather than my heart, but Ferrari should be aware that the game has moved on in other ways than just performance.

Agreed.

Shown the innards of the likes of a Porsche Carrera GT versus an Enzo, the average punter would likely be shocked at how tatty the Enzo is and how jewel-like the GT is.

I remember watching an episode of Top Gear, and i think they did a 360CS vs a GT3 article

The Porsche was put together as you would expect from Ze Germans, but the ferrari had weld lines showing in the footwells and things like that.

Of course saying that, give me the keys to either and i'd bite your hand off.

Also i think the marketing has been spot on for the 918 and P1 (bat the Ring lap time incident) - lots of test drives, photo ops, road tests etc. Whilst the FLF has been a bit pants, even to the point where someone posts a pic in the spotted thread, and is greeted with a chorus of "is it out yet?"

[Uriel]

R_U_LOCAL said:

I'm very much aware that quality wasn't their strong point in the past - particularly fit & finish etc. 30 years ago this was seen as an idiosyncracy of Ferrari - F40s had a bare carbon/nomex tub with green sealant, a piece of string as a door handle and carbon weave visible through the paint.

Not really a valid comparison imo. Choosing to build a car with a bare carbon floor rather than fit carpet, choosing a string handle rather than a heavier but no more functional alternative and choosing to save weight with a thin paint job is quite different altogether than shonkily built cars and unintentionally poor fit and finish caused by poor workmanship and a lack of QC.

[R_U_LOCAL]

Uriel said:

R_U_LOCAL said:

I'm very much aware that quality wasn't their strong point in the past - particularly fit & finish etc. 30 years ago this was seen as an idiosyncracy of Ferrari - F40s had a bare carbon/nomex tub with green sealant, a piece of string as a door handle and carbon weave visible through the paint.

Not really a valid comparison imo. Choosing to build a car with a bare carbon floor rather than fit carpet, choosing a string handle rather than a heavier but no more functional alternative and choosing to save weight with a thin paint job is quite different altogether than shonkily built cars and unintentionally poor fit and finish caused by poor workmanship and a lack of QC.

I get the lightweight approach - the F40 was a stripped-out racer with the bare minimum of compromises to make it a road car. It was actually the epitome of the "drive it to the track, race it and drive it home again" mentality that I loved about Ferrari in those days. If you wanted electric windows and leather, you could go to Aston or Porsche. If you wanted flash you would go to Lamborghini, but if you wanted the fastest and most exciting, you would buy a Ferrari.

I think my point was more about how Ferrari promote their brand these days. Rather than being about out-and-out performance, they promote themselves as a luxury performance manufacturer. If they were still making cars to appeal just to driving enthusiasts or gentlemen racers then you could probably forgive a lack of quality in fit and finish or less attention to detail. What they've actually done is to try to broaden their appeal amongst wealthy buyers by promoting the luxury and pose-factor of their cars as much, if not more, than their performance.

That's not to say they aren't very good high performance cars - I'm sure they are - and it's not to say they aren't wonderful to drive - again, I'm sure they are. It's just that their business model (albeit a sucessful one in purely monitary terms) seems to be to sell based more on image than performance. If that is going to be Ferrari's sales strategy going forward, then they should at least ensure that their quality is up there with their compeititors. From Flemke's post, it sounds not just like they're slightly behind - it sounds like they're waaay off, which really isn't acceptable these days.

I don't think Enzo would be to happy with how the company operates these days.

Edited by R_U_LOCAL on Tuesday 29th April 13:02

[Ultrasound]

Surely the really telling thing about the F40 (and I really like them) is that it wasn't a carbon 'tub' at all but some non-structural kevlar (i think) cladding over an old tech chassis?

[trackdemon]

Seems that somebody, somehow, has got their hands on a LaF for review....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results...

[Peloton25]

trackdemon said:

Seems that somebody, somehow, has got their hands on a LaF for review....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results...

A number of publications have - embargo lifts tonight.

>8^)
ER

[fatboy69]

trackdemon said:

Seems that somebody, somehow, has got their hands on a LaF for review....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results...

That might explain the late arrival on the shelves of Top Gear & Car magazines.

It is going to make interesting reading in pub tomorrow over breakfast & a pint or two before i go to work!!!

[chucks74]

flemke said:

The A2 is a great car - holds 4 people easily, plus some luggage; very well made; looks okay for what it is; good driving position.

Since you clearly have very good taste (F1!) I had to read some reviews. The telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/2716577/City-slicker-with-hidden-flaws.html) for example complains heavily about the ride. Would you agree?

Apologies to all for diversion.

[trackdemon]

fatboy69 said:

trackdemon said:

Seems that somebody, somehow, has got their hands on a LaF for review....

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results...

That might explain the late arrival on the shelves of Top Gear & Car magazines.

It is going to make interesting reading in pub tomorrow over breakfast & a pint or two before i go to work!!!

Sounds like a fun job you have!

[shoestring7]

chucks74 said:

flemke said:

The A2 is a great car - holds 4 people easily, plus some luggage; very well made; looks okay for what it is; good driving position.

Since you clearly have very good taste (F1!) I had to read some reviews. The telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/first-drives/2716577/City-slicker-with-hidden-flaws.html) for example complains heavily about the ride. Would you agree?

Apologies to all for diversion.

The spring/damper settings were poor (like many Audis), and some of the larger wheels were chosen for looks, not chassis dynamics (like many Audis). However they are very fixable with carefully selected aftermarket items and 15" wheels which transform the car.

I've had three.

SS7