Discussion
flemke said:
so it is not surprising that its first cousin was nothing special:
I think the CGT interior is stunning.It's obviously Porsche but anyone who knows a little about them would never confuse it with a 911 interior.
For me it's everything a high end supercar should be. Uncluttered, focussed and very well build with some fantastic yet understated touches (e.g the beech gear knob and the pedals).
The Enzo & LaF try too hard to sell the 'F1 car for the road' rubbish and I could do without gimicks like upshift lights on the steering wheel.
Davey S2 said:
I think the CGT interior is stunning.
It's obviously Porsche but anyone who knows a little about them would never confuse it with a 911 interior.
The dials and wheel look very similar to me.It's obviously Porsche but anyone who knows a little about them would never confuse it with a 911 interior.
From what I recall of past threads, Flemke has (or at least had) one of each.
I'm not saying they are awful, but I subscribe to the train of thought that supercar interiors ought to be pretty special.
The CGT and Boxster (never mind 911 or Cayman) interiors are a bit too similar for my liking.
CGT
2003 Boxster S
Davey S2 said:
flemke said:
so it is not surprising that its first cousin was nothing special:
I think the CGT interior is stunning.It's obviously Porsche but anyone who knows a little about them would never confuse it with a 911 interior.
For me it's everything a high end supercar should be. Uncluttered, focussed and very well build with some fantastic yet understated touches (e.g the beech gear knob and the pedals).
The Enzo & LaF try too hard to sell the 'F1 car for the road' rubbish and I could do without gimicks like upshift lights on the steering wheel.
flemke said:
Wrt continuing, rejuvenating, or discarding and entirely replacing an established interior design, would the way forward not depend on how good the original was?
If Porsche and Ferrari had the balls to carry on with an older but timeless design:
and simply modernise it only where necessary, we might have some more decent interiors.
Flemke - as ever, you get the nail on the head. I guess there will be some desire for lineage among manufacturers, so as you say, they have to start from somewhere. The CGT suffers from that (IMO) hideous steering wheel of the 9x6 series Porsches, only marginally better than that seen in the N16 Nisssan Almera. If Porsche and Ferrari had the balls to carry on with an older but timeless design:
and simply modernise it only where necessary, we might have some more decent interiors.
It did amuse me that you chose to show, entirely without provocation, one of my favourite interiors - the 250 GT. Modern cars have too many gadgets and buttons and knobs, so a clean, tidy interior is a real challenge. The Tesla Model S did well to clean it up, but then ends up with a big flat touchscreen, which will force you to take your eyes off the road every time you want to change anything. I think the BMW i3, and now the very latest C-class, have interiors in the direction they should have taken years ago - designers seem to have clung onto a the principle of a big slab of dark plastic for far too long.
Possibly my favourite modern hypercar interior benefits, as Flemke says, from not being constrained by a contemporary starting point lower in the range: the Veyron Super Sport. The pictures below make me want to just sit there, holding the wheel, looking around and touching things, nevermind driving the car - and that for me is how these interiors should be. The LaFerrari fails that test for me. The Veryon comes across as special - interesting materials, coherent/consistent design and elegant - no excess or hyperbole. The only thing I would change is removing the strip on the top of the steering wheel rim, a 'because race [rally] car' irrelevance. The colour combination has to be right - there are plenty of examples of Veyron where the choices make for an ungainly cockpit.
RenesisEvo said:
The CGT suffers from that (IMO) hideous steering wheel of the 9x6 series Porsches, only marginally better than that seen in the N16 Nisssan Almera.
I think that Porsche steering wheel is very attractive but it's important to consider it in its historic context, being among the first airbag wheels without the horrendous looking rectangular airbag boss and 4 spokes. 
Most cars from around the 1995-2005 era are blighted by ugly steering wheels with bulky airbags.Steering wheels generally look best when they're black. Not sure any wheel looks good in terracotta!
Hi Flemke
Great to have you back as many have already said,sorry to here about the situation that has given you hassle over recent times.
I wanted to ask how the brakes are going on the F1 i know Joe kindly posted pics of testing the carbon set up has it progressed any further ? as a man of the finer things in life as regards the wiper stalks on the F1 could you not get some nice neat carbon ones made ?
Nice to here you managed to secure a P1 its really grown on me each time i have seen one (lucky enough the test route is very near Haslemere) so have seen many over the last couple of years.
I have a good contact at dunsfold who has seen hundreds of all types of cars go round the TG track and is still amazed at the cornering speed of the P1..
Russ
Great to have you back as many have already said,sorry to here about the situation that has given you hassle over recent times.
I wanted to ask how the brakes are going on the F1 i know Joe kindly posted pics of testing the carbon set up has it progressed any further ? as a man of the finer things in life as regards the wiper stalks on the F1 could you not get some nice neat carbon ones made ?
Nice to here you managed to secure a P1 its really grown on me each time i have seen one (lucky enough the test route is very near Haslemere) so have seen many over the last couple of years.
I have a good contact at dunsfold who has seen hundreds of all types of cars go round the TG track and is still amazed at the cornering speed of the P1..
Russ
Davey S2 said:
flemke said:
so it is not surprising that its first cousin was nothing special:
I think the CGT interior is stunning.It's obviously Porsche but anyone who knows a little about them would never confuse it with a 911 interior.
For me it's everything a high end supercar should be. Uncluttered, focussed and very well build with some fantastic yet understated touches (e.g the beech gear knob and the pedals).
The Enzo & LaF try too hard to sell the 'F1 car for the road' rubbish and I could do without gimicks like upshift lights on the steering wheel.
I have been unable today to locate an image, but, IIRC on the driveable CGT prototype unveiled to the press by Walter Rohrl, there was a graphical-screen-style, modernistic instrument binnacle that was very un-Porsche and also very good looking. I was disappointed to see that the actual production cars, instead of having that binnacle, had a slightly rehashed version of the standard 996 binnacle. For a car costing 3x as much as anything else the company were selling, this was poor form.
The CGT's pedals might look sharp but they do not work particularly well. I have not driven my car in literally years; nonetheless I vividly recall how heavy the clutch pedal is - unacceptably so.
Not only that but the pedals are aluminium (good in itself) with little rubber inserts set into milled grooves. The rubber inserts are unnecessary and, furthermore, they tend to work themselves loose and drop onto the floor. PITA!
The gearshift mechanism has got much praise for its light action and preciseness. At the same time, its high position requires shifting articulated from the wrist, rather than from the elbow. IMO it is the worse for this.
Last but not least, whoever designed the seats was a moron. The problem is that the elevation at which the seatback widens to accommodate one's shoulders is about 6 inches too high. It's probably perfect for Walter Rohrl, around whom I suspect it was designed, but for the 98% of the driving population who are not 6'5" tall or taller, it stinks. The driver's (and passenger's) shoulders get pushed inward and forward, making what should have been a very comfortable, near-bespoke seat into the relative of those seats at bus-stops that are designed to make it impossible for the occupant ever to get comfortable or to fall sleep.
RenesisEvo said:
flemke said:
Wrt continuing, rejuvenating, or discarding and entirely replacing an established interior design, would the way forward not depend on how good the original was?
If Porsche and Ferrari had the balls to carry on with an older but timeless design:
and simply modernise it only where necessary, we might have some more decent interiors.
Flemke - as ever, you get the nail on the head. I guess there will be some desire for lineage among manufacturers, so as you say, they have to start from somewhere. The CGT suffers from that (IMO) hideous steering wheel of the 9x6 series Porsches, only marginally better than that seen in the N16 Nisssan Almera. If Porsche and Ferrari had the balls to carry on with an older but timeless design:
and simply modernise it only where necessary, we might have some more decent interiors.
It did amuse me that you chose to show, entirely without provocation, one of my favourite interiors - the 250 GT. Modern cars have too many gadgets and buttons and knobs, so a clean, tidy interior is a real challenge. The Tesla Model S did well to clean it up, but then ends up with a big flat touchscreen, which will force you to take your eyes off the road every time you want to change anything. I think the BMW i3, and now the very latest C-class, have interiors in the direction they should have taken years ago - designers seem to have clung onto a the principle of a big slab of dark plastic for far too long.
Possibly my favourite modern hypercar interior benefits, as Flemke says, from not being constrained by a contemporary starting point lower in the range: the Veyron Super Sport. The pictures below make me want to just sit there, holding the wheel, looking around and touching things, nevermind driving the car - and that for me is how these interiors should be. The LaFerrari fails that test for me. The Veryon comes across as special - interesting materials, coherent/consistent design and elegant - no excess or hyperbole. The only thing I would change is removing the strip on the top of the steering wheel rim, a 'because race [rally] car' irrelevance. The colour combination has to be right - there are plenty of examples of Veyron where the choices make for an ungainly cockpit.
Saying that, whilst they were substantially improving the SS's interior, VW degraded how the car looks from the outside. The standard Veyron suffers from those stupid-looking aluminium air plenums on either side of the rear window, but the openness of the rear window and glass engine cover make the view from the rear both more open and more interesting.
On the SS, you have a much smaller view of the engine, and instead you are confronted with more square feet of body panels, which I think cheapens the look of the car.
ilovevolvo said:
Hi Flemke
Great to have you back as many have already said,sorry to here about the situation that has given you hassle over recent times.
I wanted to ask how the brakes are going on the F1 i know Joe kindly posted pics of testing the carbon set up has it progressed any further ? as a man of the finer things in life as regards the wiper stalks on the F1 could you not get some nice neat carbon ones made ?
Nice to here you managed to secure a P1 its really grown on me each time i have seen one (lucky enough the test route is very near Haslemere) so have seen many over the last couple of years.
I have a good contact at dunsfold who has seen hundreds of all types of cars go round the TG track and is still amazed at the cornering speed of the P1..
Russ
Still working on them thar brakes. We have a new plan in place for how we should test and refine them, which plan we shall be implementing starting in June.Great to have you back as many have already said,sorry to here about the situation that has given you hassle over recent times.
I wanted to ask how the brakes are going on the F1 i know Joe kindly posted pics of testing the carbon set up has it progressed any further ? as a man of the finer things in life as regards the wiper stalks on the F1 could you not get some nice neat carbon ones made ?
Nice to here you managed to secure a P1 its really grown on me each time i have seen one (lucky enough the test route is very near Haslemere) so have seen many over the last couple of years.
I have a good contact at dunsfold who has seen hundreds of all types of cars go round the TG track and is still amazed at the cornering speed of the P1..
Russ
flemke said:
I'm bound to agree with you about the Super Sport's interior. I was in one a couple of weeks ago and thought that it looked quite classy.
Saying that, whilst they were substantially improving the SS's interior, VW degraded how the car looks from the outside. The standard Veyron suffers from those stupid-looking aluminium air plenums on either side of the rear window, but the openness of the rear window and glass engine cover make the view from the rear both more open and more interesting.
On the SS, you have a much smaller view of the engine, and instead you are confronted with more square feet of body panels, which I think cheapens the look of the car.
Have you ever considered buying one? Either a "standard" or a SS?Saying that, whilst they were substantially improving the SS's interior, VW degraded how the car looks from the outside. The standard Veyron suffers from those stupid-looking aluminium air plenums on either side of the rear window, but the openness of the rear window and glass engine cover make the view from the rear both more open and more interesting.
On the SS, you have a much smaller view of the engine, and instead you are confronted with more square feet of body panels, which I think cheapens the look of the car.
Fully agree with the critics of recent Porsche interiors. The Kitsch and bling they felt was needed from the late 90es on really does not suit the cars (IMVHO). How ever well made the kit might be, it just looks cheap an fussy to me.
Sadly, the people behind this sort of stuff
have long gone into retirement, and the historic design ethos (functionality, longevity, 'humility' -- for lack of better words) ins't exactly what helps Zuffenhausen sell cars in the current market.
Hyper/Super cars aside, I'd find it much easier to dump my limited funds into a used Cayman if the interior was closer to this humble transaxle:
Sadly, the people behind this sort of stuff
have long gone into retirement, and the historic design ethos (functionality, longevity, 'humility' -- for lack of better words) ins't exactly what helps Zuffenhausen sell cars in the current market.
Hyper/Super cars aside, I'd find it much easier to dump my limited funds into a used Cayman if the interior was closer to this humble transaxle:
Rollcage said:
Streetrod said:
Monty Python said:
I see chassis number 28 has returned to the UK for a reputed £6.2 million.
Sure has, is now owned by a well known PistonheaderIsn't it the ex Michael Andretti car?
fatboy69 said:
Rollcage said:
Streetrod said:
Monty Python said:
I see chassis number 28 has returned to the UK for a reputed £6.2 million.
Sure has, is now owned by a well known PistonheaderIsn't it the ex Michael Andretti car?
It's the MA car, yes.
Monty Python said:
CraigyMc said:
There's a threat on Jalopnik about it at the moment.
What's the threat?And I'm a potato.
Here's the threa
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