Discussion
VladD said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
Stuff
TT9, what are you planning on doing with yours? Are you going to modify it in any way? Will you be doing any track days or tours? I assume it won't be a daily driver, but do you plan on using it on a regular basis? Just interested to know your reasons for buying it part from the obvious wanting to own an F1 thing.I plan to keep it pretty much as original as possible, with the exception of maybe adding the new titanium exhaust. Other than that I really don't think it needs anything. It will go back to McLaren in the winter for a good going over, service and tanks etc.
I will drive it for fun, but I certainly plan to put a good amount of mileage on the car. Doubt I'll track it as most modern machinery will out-brake it with ease and I don't fancy a Caterham darting up the inside of me as we head into a corner.
TurboTerrific9 said:
I bought it because IMHO it's the greatest car of the modern era and I don't think they'll ever be anything like it built again. My limited ownership has only confirmed what an amazing machine it is.
I plan to keep it pretty much as original as possible, with the exception of maybe adding the new titanium exhaust. Other than that I really don't think it needs anything. It will go back to McLaren in the winter for a good going over, service and tanks etc.
I will drive it for fun, but I certainly plan to put a good amount of mileage on the car. Doubt I'll track it as most modern machinery will out-brake it with ease and I don't fancy a Caterham darting up the inside of me as we head into a corner.
What are you going to do with the old exhaust? Wall hanging, coffee table, wine rack, or will you just chuck it on e-Bay? ;-)I plan to keep it pretty much as original as possible, with the exception of maybe adding the new titanium exhaust. Other than that I really don't think it needs anything. It will go back to McLaren in the winter for a good going over, service and tanks etc.
I will drive it for fun, but I certainly plan to put a good amount of mileage on the car. Doubt I'll track it as most modern machinery will out-brake it with ease and I don't fancy a Caterham darting up the inside of me as we head into a corner.
Edited by VladD on Friday 11th July 15:53
flemke said:
I guess it's possible that his barrister said to him, "If you do not settle, you will almost certainly lose and will almost certainly be assigned costs. Settling will cost you £47,000 - and perhaps we can negotiate that down a bit - and defending and losing could cost you £150,000. You would be mad to defend," and Hales responded, "I appreciate that it will probably cost me my house, but I don't care! I want to defend!"
It's possible, but it just seems unlikely.
Wrt the "mechanical damage" clause, perhaps you could explain.
If you make an unambiguous driver error and mash the car to bits, the car has suffered mechanical damage. Apart from liability to others, what is there to insure beyond the "mechanical damage" done to the insured vehicle when the driver has made an error?
Wrt that blue car, yes, I seem to recall it. Your photo is starting to make me ask myself whether I should change the colour back to something less dark. This can be a very slippery slope. Help!
I am not a litigator, but I do deal with clients who get themselves into litigation situations and it is always interesting to see how people consider their positions (a) when deciding whether or not to defend/claim, and (b) when a settlement offer is made. It's possible, but it just seems unlikely.
Wrt the "mechanical damage" clause, perhaps you could explain.
If you make an unambiguous driver error and mash the car to bits, the car has suffered mechanical damage. Apart from liability to others, what is there to insure beyond the "mechanical damage" done to the insured vehicle when the driver has made an error?
Wrt that blue car, yes, I seem to recall it. Your photo is starting to make me ask myself whether I should change the colour back to something less dark. This can be a very slippery slope. Help!
I suspect that MH's thought process in choosing to have his day in court was:
1. MH felt that there was a case to argue (and his legal advisers would no doubt have confirmed this - to deny it would mean that the fees generated by them up to that point were wasted when they knew that he did not have a case worth defending from day 1).
2. It is rare that the losing party must pay all of the winning party's costs and MH's lawyers would no doubt have told him this. He was probably told that, because there was a decent case to argue, it was worth taking the shot that the judge either found in MH's favour; or found him only liable for part of the damage; or that even if he lost, the claimant would be made to pay his own costs. If both parties were made to pay their own costs and MH had a 50% chance of winning, then it might have been worth having a shot.
3. It would not just be £47k to settle - he would also have to pay his legal costs up to that point. I have no idea what they would be but presumably around £25k (assuming that the £100k of legal costs was evenly split between claimant and defendant).
4. I would be interested to know whether or not he did the maths on his expected value from going to court based on the likelihood of each possible outcome and the costs associated with those outcomes. That is what I try do with my clients.
As an aside it is amazing how often clients (who tend to be smart cookies) struggle to think clearly about litigation risk. I had one recently who was defending a claim for £50k which had two causes of action, either of which could be successful for the claim to be successful. We guessed (with Counsel) that each cause of action had a 50% chance of likelihood of success. Now you don't need to be a backgammon champion to realise that that only gives you a 25% chance of winning, but it took a surprising amount of time for me to explain that that was the case. I can only think that people get so swept up in thinking about the arguments and "guilt" that they forget to look at the numbers dispassionately.
My point is that there are no straight lines in litigation, and it is rarely a binary result. I do think that litigation lawyers must be very careful not to fall into what Charlie Munger would call the incentive-cause super reaction (see Munger's article entitled The Psychology of Human Misjudgment).
In other words lawyers give clients the wrong advice (subconsciously or not) because his continuing the claim/defence financially benefits them. I am not suggesting that this necessarily happened in this case, but that it is something to be aware of.
TurboTerrific9 said:
VladD said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
Stuff
TT9, what are you planning on doing with yours? Are you going to modify it in any way? Will you be doing any track days or tours? I assume it won't be a daily driver, but do you plan on using it on a regular basis? Just interested to know your reasons for buying it part from the obvious wanting to own an F1 thing.I plan to keep it pretty much as original as possible, with the exception of maybe adding the new titanium exhaust. Other than that I really don't think it needs anything. It will go back to McLaren in the winter for a good going over, service and tanks etc.
I will drive it for fun, but I certainly plan to put a good amount of mileage on the car. Doubt I'll track it as most modern machinery will out-brake it with ease and I don't fancy a Caterham darting up the inside of me as we head into a corner.
Gooly said:
Thanks for your post. Absolutely superb that you could bless a mere topic with your presence. Tell me, what kind of keyboard did you type that on? May I touch it? I hope you dont mind a mere mortal such as me asking, but how do you find the time out of your busy schedule to please us basic lifeforms on PH?
I heard you are planning on adding backlit keys to the wonderful tool you use to create these masterpieces. What colour LEDs will you use? May i suggest a lime green outlay with a magenta inlay? Or possibly that is too gaudy? I apologise if so, the nerves are getting to me as i write this post. I am just a mere peasant compared to you.
I thank you in advance for your reply. Your postings give me a deep satisfaction.
Superlative parody! I heard you are planning on adding backlit keys to the wonderful tool you use to create these masterpieces. What colour LEDs will you use? May i suggest a lime green outlay with a magenta inlay? Or possibly that is too gaudy? I apologise if so, the nerves are getting to me as i write this post. I am just a mere peasant compared to you.
I thank you in advance for your reply. Your postings give me a deep satisfaction.
HereBeMonsters said:
Are you not tempted to upgrade the brakes at all?
I'll see over time. This is clearly the area where things have really moved forward over the last 20 odd years. The brakes suffer from massive fade when they get very hot after repeated use. That said the brake feel, given the lack of servo etc, is actually quite nice. Beefmeister said:
Looks like someone in Switzerland is a fan of flemke's blue with white stripes colour scheme....
The owner of that LaFerrari would call it his own color scheme - here's his 599XX:
This is his 599 GTO:
Not certain he has any others, but doubtful he found inspiration where you suggest.
Also he recently shared this in answer to a question of 'What made you get the white lines?'
ChalStrad said:
When I learned that the vast majority were in various reds I went with "my colors"
The white stripe, blue carbon roof, splitter, sills, fog light, rear fender, wheel lock centers, wing mirror arms and diffuser as well as the Bianchi Fuji stripe were my idea but we worked on it for a while with the team in the Ferrari design centre
The engine stripe in blue and white was "pure me" as was the matte interior carbon (not blue) and the alcantara interior
Also the belts have a grey embroidered horse - not the rectangular Ferrari badge
>8^)The white stripe, blue carbon roof, splitter, sills, fog light, rear fender, wheel lock centers, wing mirror arms and diffuser as well as the Bianchi Fuji stripe were my idea but we worked on it for a while with the team in the Ferrari design centre
The engine stripe in blue and white was "pure me" as was the matte interior carbon (not blue) and the alcantara interior
Also the belts have a grey embroidered horse - not the rectangular Ferrari badge
ER
Edited by Peloton25 on Friday 11th July 17:07
Peloton25 said:
The owner of that LaFerrari would call it his own color scheme - here's his 599XX:
This is his 599 GTO:
Not certain he has any others, but doubtful he found inspiration where you suggest.
>8^)
ER
Excuse my ignorance peloton25, do you have a McLaren F1 as well?? You seem to know a lot about them and have lots of various images etc etc This is his 599 GTO:
Not certain he has any others, but doubtful he found inspiration where you suggest.
>8^)
ER
TurboTerrific9 said:
VladD said:
TurboTerrific9 said:
Stuff
TT9, what are you planning on doing with yours? Are you going to modify it in any way? Will you be doing any track days or tours? I assume it won't be a daily driver, but do you plan on using it on a regular basis? Just interested to know your reasons for buying it part from the obvious wanting to own an F1 thing.I plan to keep it pretty much as original as possible, with the exception of maybe adding the new titanium exhaust. Other than that I really don't think it needs anything. It will go back to McLaren in the winter for a good going over, service and tanks etc.
I will drive it for fun, but I certainly plan to put a good amount of mileage on the car. Doubt I'll track it as most modern machinery will out-brake it with ease and I don't fancy a Caterham darting up the inside of me as we head into a corner.
Peloton25 said:
flemke said:
If you are referring to last year's or this year's F1 owners' tours around Italy or France, I definitely was not there, nor was my car. As I think I wrote above, I have no interest in hanging out with a bunch of rich people who think that, because they are rich, they are interesting to listen to, when usually they are unbearably boring and almost always concerned with only themselves. 
Saw very little of that kind of behavior - I believe you would enjoy the drives and even the people in the crowd more than you might imagine. The ones participating in the Tours have been of the enthusiast variety.>8^)
ER
), I have probably spent more time talking with more rich folks than you have done. Based on my experience, the problem is not that they have less that is interesting to hear than what unrich folks have to say. The problem rather is that, too often, they imagine that what they have to say is more interesting to hear than it actually is, or that it is truer, more important or more insightful than it actually is. The conceit-to-content ratio can be high.
Being interested in what intelligent people have to say is another matter, but there is an imperfect correlation between personal wealth and personal brainpower. (Some might say that it is negative, but I would not want to go that far.
)blindswelledrat said:
E65Ross said:
Thanks for the reply, love the fact he drives an A2 for the daily, so modest it's superb!
No genuinely modest person could come close to enduring the kind of sycophancy like yours that adorns every other post over these 4 volumes.THat's not a dig at him at all. PH is exactly the place to share your interest in decent cars and it's very natural to want to tell people about them who will be interested.
Just a shame that such an interesting thread is riddled with eyebleedingly cringeworthy arse licking.
Sorry forgot my smiley.
<?..69>8
FU
Edited by Urban Sports on Friday 11th July 20:21
Urban Sports said:
blindswelledrat said:
E65Ross said:
Thanks for the reply, love the fact he drives an A2 for the daily, so modest it's superb!
No genuinely modest person could come close to enduring the kind of sycophancy like yours that adorns every other post over these 4 volumes.THat's not a dig at him at all. PH is exactly the place to share your interest in decent cars and it's very natural to want to tell people about them who will be interested.
Just a shame that such an interesting thread is riddled with eyebleedingly cringeworthy arse licking.
If I ask a question about anything on PH, on any forum, and get a meaningful reply from anyone I always say thank you, can't see why it should be any different on this thread ffs.
I recently had an issue with water ingress through the sunroof on my car, I asked a few people on the barge thread the likely cause...someone replied it was probably a blocked drain hole and advised an easy solution; for which I thanked them. Is that brown nosing as well?
E65Ross said:
Urban Sports said:
blindswelledrat said:
E65Ross said:
Thanks for the reply, love the fact he drives an A2 for the daily, so modest it's superb!
No genuinely modest person could come close to enduring the kind of sycophancy like yours that adorns every other post over these 4 volumes.THat's not a dig at him at all. PH is exactly the place to share your interest in decent cars and it's very natural to want to tell people about them who will be interested.
Just a shame that such an interesting thread is riddled with eyebleedingly cringeworthy arse licking.
If I ask a question about anything on PH, on any forum, and get a meaningful reply from anyone I always say thank you, can't see why it should be any different on this thread ffs.
I recently had an issue with water ingress through the sunroof on my car, I asked a few people on the barge thread the likely cause...someone replied it was probably a blocked drain hole and advised an easy solution; for which I thanked them. Is that brown nosing as well?
isaldiri said:
Mr F - a question if I may. A couple of pages back you mentioned that the F1 was rather more unpredictable in handling compared to a Zonda and more accurately, rather more unpredictable than ideal full stop How did you think the carrera gt compares to either car to drive, both on the older PS2 tyres and the newer supersports (I assume you've fitted those now to your car).
Was just browsing through my copy of the evo analogue supercar issue that was lying around and I do find it quite interesting that the CGT has quite unfairly gained a reputation for being pretty finicky to drive due to some high profile accidents but one almost never reads anything in any magazine test/comparison about the F1 being quite as tricky as you have found, certainly nothing on the scale that would have triggered Manthey's comment about the car in the wet!
It's been quite a while since I last drove a Zonda, but my main sense of them was that they were of a piece. The primary systems worked in harmony and were, in general, at a similar level of effectiveness and user friendliness. The brakes were over-servo'd but, otherwise, it all worked together. How did you think the carrera gt compares to either car to drive, both on the older PS2 tyres and the newer supersports (I assume you've fitted those now to your car). Was just browsing through my copy of the evo analogue supercar issue that was lying around and I do find it quite interesting that the CGT has quite unfairly gained a reputation for being pretty finicky to drive due to some high profile accidents but one almost never reads anything in any magazine test/comparison about the F1 being quite as tricky as you have found, certainly nothing on the scale that would have triggered Manthey's comment about the car in the wet!
Wrt the handling, the main thing (in my limited experience, and, as they were not my cars, I was def not pushing them) was its predictability and intuitiveness. Grip and balance changed in continuous transitions. The only way you could get caught out was if you were doing something which you knew could catch you out, which normally is the thing that keeps you from getting caught out.
As for CGT, there are a couple things to say. The first is that it is a downforce car. Most people, including me, are unaccustomed to driving downforce cars, and driving them is certainly a skill that must be acquired if one is to expose oneself much to the effect. That is to say, it's great when you are building speed and the car feels increasingly planted, but it's not so great when that planted feeling causes you to over-reach yourself to the point where there simply ain't enough additional DF to keep the car on the road, or, when you do something such as go over a crest which causes the car momentarily to lose most or all of its DF, in which case you can quickly have a problem on your hands.
The second thing is that the car has got enormous front grip. The steering reacts instantaneously to driver inputs. So: large car, loads of power, hyper-reactive steering, low polar moment...one can see where this might be going (as in, into a hedge backwards). It's not that hard to drive, but it does require respect, which includes a certain appreciation at least conceptually if not empirically of the need to stay within the limits of one's own abilities. It's not a car in which to experiment.
A couple of other minor factors which nevertheless got the car a bad reputation at the time were its low ramp angle (could be addressed with an after-market lifting kit, as I had done) and the carbon-ceramic clutch.
The idea behind the clutch was simply that, from a standing start and especially, crucially, on a hill start, before the car begins to move off, one should not touch the throttle. Rather, one should only let out the clutch and allow the engine management system on its own to modulate the required power inputs. People were trying to slip the clutch, which confused the engine management system, which led them to slipping it some more, and the results were stalling cars and ruined clutches. It's never a problem if one remembers to operate the clutch in the way that it was designed uniquely to be used, rather than in the way that one uses the clutch in other cars.
CGT is a wonderful car. How something like a 993 GT2 can now go for more, in some cases apparently a lot more, money is a mystery to me.
Indeed Agent.
BSR, you say it's normal for enthusiasts to want to talk about their car with interested people, yet there's no other owner who has been so open, patient or accommodating.
We've had a few other owners on here over the years (as I'm sure you know), plus a recent one, but Flemke has been great in giving us a taste of the F1.
Some questions have been asked dozens of times (and I don't have the best memeory), yet each and every time it's answered individually, with thought.
So gratitude isn't out of the question. Even when at times it comes across as awe.
Besides, the worst sycophant on here is Soovy, with his persistent attempts to get adopted, however I have an inkling he is at least in part joking...
BSR, you say it's normal for enthusiasts to want to talk about their car with interested people, yet there's no other owner who has been so open, patient or accommodating.
We've had a few other owners on here over the years (as I'm sure you know), plus a recent one, but Flemke has been great in giving us a taste of the F1.
Some questions have been asked dozens of times (and I don't have the best memeory), yet each and every time it's answered individually, with thought.
So gratitude isn't out of the question. Even when at times it comes across as awe.
Besides, the worst sycophant on here is Soovy, with his persistent attempts to get adopted, however I have an inkling he is at least in part joking...
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