Incriminating Evidence
Discussion
Get your own copy of the Forum before the case goes to Court. The CPS and Police will use the parts they think appropriate and leave out the extenuating posts. If you have a copy for your Brief and point out the actual tone and are able to point out the "missing" segments it will not go down well with a Judge. Anybody remember the "Life On Mars" Episode with two accounts of a young man's "Confession"??? Two different views of the same interrogation with two conflicting interpretations.
One example would be people posting "What's your favourite driving road" or "can anyone recommend a good road near xxx". When I've got it in black and white, so to speak, saying "Road XXX is stunning, loads of great corners, not too much traffic, look out for camera vans etc.", it obviously doesn't look too good, when you then go on to have an accident on that very road.
They're the kind of innocent comments which seemingly corroborate allegations that you use the roads for your driving pleasure. Whilst that's not illegal (yet) in itself, it's used to paint a picture.
They're the kind of innocent comments which seemingly corroborate allegations that you use the roads for your driving pleasure. Whilst that's not illegal (yet) in itself, it's used to paint a picture.
Thinking about the original question, the OP asked about incriminating evidence.
I don't think your example is incriminating evidence as they did not read "Road XYZ is great for going fast and finding your car's limits" and they nicked you for going fast / driving dangerously on that road. Taking a print out is (surely?) to determine character / intention before the event and is probably less relevant in court than the lesson you've learnt and where you are now.
Must feel pretty sickening. At least after the 20th you'll know where you are and can move on. Have you had an indication of punishment yet? Is there a risk of a custodial sentence?
Evidence from forums could be either directly linked to specific offences, or as in my case, just to add weight to the CPS prosecution that I was predisposed to drive quickly, to the point that I'd even mentioned the road where the accident took place as a road for enjoying driving. There may have been a slight prejudicial element to internet evidence which did not relate to the accident itself, but we haven't pushed too far with this as I'm guilty and that's how I've pleaded.
Due to the seriousness and long lasting effects of the Bikers injuries (he very nearly died), my culpability and the fact that in my neck of the woods road casualties is a very hot topic, it's been indicated that I'm likely to face a custodial sentence. Whilst it goes without saying that I'd like not to go to prison, I have to accept that someone's life has been catastrophically changed due to my actions, and justice needs to be seen to be done.
Whatever happens on the 20th, my attitude to all things road related has changed drastically over the past year, and despite luckily being free of any injuries, my life will never be the same again.
Due to the seriousness and long lasting effects of the Bikers injuries (he very nearly died), my culpability and the fact that in my neck of the woods road casualties is a very hot topic, it's been indicated that I'm likely to face a custodial sentence. Whilst it goes without saying that I'd like not to go to prison, I have to accept that someone's life has been catastrophically changed due to my actions, and justice needs to be seen to be done.
Whatever happens on the 20th, my attitude to all things road related has changed drastically over the past year, and despite luckily being free of any injuries, my life will never be the same again.
I'm surprised they can even use forum banter to paint a picture.
What is there to say that you don't purposefully posture yourself as a prick on forums for the fun of it, or for whatever reason...
IF they do, then best go find posts which display the opposing sensible side, which you can argue is your sensible normal side when your not just talking bollarks to sound cool.
If they can take forums seriously, I'd even go as far as saying you had trouble making friends at school, and forum banter is a way of bigging yourself up (who knows, it might actually be)...
Sorry but I think that without a psychologist assesing ALL your posts on EVERY forum, it's quite impossible to draw any conclusions worth consideration when assessing this case. What next, when you were a child you liked to crash your scalextric cars for fun
Dave
What is there to say that you don't purposefully posture yourself as a prick on forums for the fun of it, or for whatever reason...
IF they do, then best go find posts which display the opposing sensible side, which you can argue is your sensible normal side when your not just talking bollarks to sound cool.
If they can take forums seriously, I'd even go as far as saying you had trouble making friends at school, and forum banter is a way of bigging yourself up (who knows, it might actually be)...
Sorry but I think that without a psychologist assesing ALL your posts on EVERY forum, it's quite impossible to draw any conclusions worth consideration when assessing this case. What next, when you were a child you liked to crash your scalextric cars for fun
Dave
10 Pence Short said:
Sadly the biker has lost the use of his arm due to nerve damage that's likely to be permanent. This happened on 30/04/06 and is still on going. The worst thing is the empty feeling of not being able to pay back the damage you've caused, whatever my legal punishments ends up being.
I didn't purposely drive any different to how I've driven that road hundreds of times before, I didn't feel I was a risk to anyone by how I was driving. I found out in the worst possible way I was wrong.
There are probably lots of people on these forums who like to go out and have a drive, perhaps pretty quickly. Perhaps sometimes they push their cars or bikes towards the edges of their grip. Just keep it in the back of your minds that one moment on a road can cost literally everything, and the words you have printed here on the internet can easily be used against you.
I didn't purposely drive any different to how I've driven that road hundreds of times before, I didn't feel I was a risk to anyone by how I was driving. I found out in the worst possible way I was wrong.
There are probably lots of people on these forums who like to go out and have a drive, perhaps pretty quickly. Perhaps sometimes they push their cars or bikes towards the edges of their grip. Just keep it in the back of your minds that one moment on a road can cost literally everything, and the words you have printed here on the internet can easily be used against you.
I really feel for both parties on this one. The biker cos he was just going about his business, enjoying his bike and through no fault of his own he will probably now have to live with the long term consequences of what happened that day. I really hope the guy gets back to how he used to be before the accident.
It is to your credit that you have had the b0ll0x to stand up and admit to what you have done. You have taken responsibility for your actions and are prepared to suffer the consequences, that takes a lot of inner strength. How many people, even at this late stage would still be protesting their innocence? Nearly all of them.
Regardless of what the court gives you, I don't think you can be punished anymore severely than you have punished yourself i.e. the guilt and remorse. I suspect you will continue to punish yourself way after the law has finished with you. I hope that things work out for the biker and for you.
Here here... Just read all of that and I have to say that it's both refreshing and admirable that you've had the strength to talk about it and not make excuses. How about offering to talk to local schools on the dangers of driving quickly.
That might make a difference to your sentence and also it'll mean something good comes of this mess. I'm surely the poor chap on the bike would be happier if he knew good was being done on the back of it all.
That might make a difference to your sentence and also it'll mean something good comes of this mess. I'm surely the poor chap on the bike would be happier if he knew good was being done on the back of it all.
to be fair though you did use to talk alot of bollox on the civic forum Dan, I remember your post on the lakes v clio meet thread saying youll show them a great back road etc etc etc, think you also stated youd have my 911, or was it the ducati ?
cant remember exactly but you did spout an amazing amount of guff over there.
cant remember exactly but you did spout an amazing amount of guff over there.
To be fair I only used the Civic site as a source of entertainment 99% of the time. I don't remember having a conversation about any Porkers, but then the site suffers a lot from 15 year olds living out fantasies, and I probably dismissed you as one of them.
Coming back to internet forums and incrimination, I think that's what Dave (Mr. Whippy) was hitting upon. An awful lot of stuff gets said on internet forums that's just banter, make believe and filling your time. Some people take them seriously, some people don't. I'd imagine a lot of people are a mixture of the two from time to time.
The danger is that in the event of something happening, be that speeding, saying how you'd like to kill your neighbour for being noisy then he happens to be murdered, or indeed my accident, comments which you posted as being innocuous can potentially come back to bite you, whether they're actually worthy of that or not.
Coming back to internet forums and incrimination, I think that's what Dave (Mr. Whippy) was hitting upon. An awful lot of stuff gets said on internet forums that's just banter, make believe and filling your time. Some people take them seriously, some people don't. I'd imagine a lot of people are a mixture of the two from time to time.
The danger is that in the event of something happening, be that speeding, saying how you'd like to kill your neighbour for being noisy then he happens to be murdered, or indeed my accident, comments which you posted as being innocuous can potentially come back to bite you, whether they're actually worthy of that or not.
still would have thought that by saying you where just "joking about on the internet" you would have got away with it, I did laugh at most of the stuff you put tbh, had me splitting my sides on more than one occasion.
(note this was nothing to do with anything other than baiting trolls)
ohh and for the record, moon juice was one of the names I used
(note this was nothing to do with anything other than baiting trolls)
ohh and for the record, moon juice was one of the names I used
Edited by DucatiGary on Tuesday 10th April 16:32
Ahhh, I seem to remember that name! Mind you, did you get banned? Can't seem to find any references now.
I was interviewed under caution in June last year and the internet references were brought up in the conversation. It was only then that I realised how bad comments could sound if you took the sarcasm out of them or didn't see them in context. Like a lot of forums, you get to know the 'regulars' and spot the nuances of what's actually been said, whereas people who aren't used to each other can totally misread things. With 10 Pence Short on the Civic forum, there's a thick layer of sarcasm or nuance on a large proportion of posts.
I was interviewed under caution in June last year and the internet references were brought up in the conversation. It was only then that I realised how bad comments could sound if you took the sarcasm out of them or didn't see them in context. Like a lot of forums, you get to know the 'regulars' and spot the nuances of what's actually been said, whereas people who aren't used to each other can totally misread things. With 10 Pence Short on the Civic forum, there's a thick layer of sarcasm or nuance on a large proportion of posts.
10 Pence Short said:
did you get banned?
yes, I got banned within an hour of joining, a mod on there gave me a mouthfull on my first post so I ripped him apart, then he said im banned, then he couldnt ban me, then 2 weeks later they finally banned that log in, and I was teasing the poor guy everyday till he got a propper mod to ban me
then I just made another name and started again
soon got bored of that though.
DucatiGary said:
10 Pence Short said:
did you get banned?
yes, I got banned within an hour of joining, a mod on there gave me a mouthfull on my first post so I ripped him apart, then he said im banned, then he couldnt ban me, then 2 weeks later they finally banned that log in, and I was teasing the poor guy everyday till he got a propper mod to ban me
then I just made another name and started again
soon got bored of that though.
you sound like a nice chap...
ASBO said:
you sound like a nice chap...
I guess it does come across that way .. .. .. .. ..
a chum asked me to join them on a run out, I joined up and posted Hi is it ok if I bring an dirty old german car to the run ?
and then this childish mod started firing at me big time.
I was mearly making him look like the plank he was, afterall, all i did was say hello.
esselte said:
How do they prove it was actually you who posted on the forum?
I presumed they asked some of the other guys on the drive, who arrived on the scene after the accident, as they had stickers on their side windows with the forum address on it. In interview I was asked about the forum and I saw no point in lying to the Police about it. Considering they had the printouts amongst the papers on their desk, it would have been a very foolish move indeed.
I would imagine most forums have the ability to trace IPs now, too. It wouldn't take much for them to lean on the forum then the ISP to track down who's making posts on forums, not to mention the power to seize computers if they wanted to.
Considering, like most people on motoring forums, I didn't think I'd ever said anything actually incriminating on a forum, I didn't think I had much to hide, either.
10 Pence Short said:
esselte said:
How do they prove it was actually you who posted on the forum?
I presumed they asked some of the other guys on the drive, who arrived on the scene after the accident, as they had stickers on their side windows with the forum address on it. In interview I was asked about the forum and I saw no point in lying to the Police about it. Considering they had the printouts amongst the papers on their desk, it would have been a very foolish move indeed.
I would imagine most forums have the ability to trace IPs now, too. It wouldn't take much for them to lean on the forum then the ISP to track down who's making posts on forums, not to mention the power to seize computers if they wanted to.
Considering, like most people on motoring forums, I didn't think I'd ever said anything actually incriminating on a forum, I didn't think I had much to hide, either.
You just say your name is Vonhosen in future!
I don't think anyone could say anything bad about your road driving attitude then
Still though, how can they PROVE you wrote the things they bring up?
Can't you say you wrote all the nice things, your distant cousin used your logon for all the bollarks?
I just can't see how they can use specific cases to make a point, then ignore the rest.
I'm pretty sure I could pick out of context posts from any member on PH and make them sound like a complete tool of a driver to backup any road driving offence... ah well, idiotic CPS will be idiotic CPS. I'm sure any decent solicitor working on your behalf will make the point that such information is unreliable and give examples showing the exact opposite of what it is being used for by the opposition.
Dave
10 Pence Short said:
esselte said:
How do they prove it was actually you who posted on the forum?
I presumed they asked some of the other guys on the drive, who arrived on the scene after the accident, as they had stickers on their side windows with the forum address on it. In interview I was asked about the forum and I saw no point in lying to the Police about it. Considering they had the printouts amongst the papers on their desk, it would have been a very foolish move indeed.
I would imagine most forums have the ability to trace IPs now, too. It wouldn't take much for them to lean on the forum then the ISP to track down who's making posts on forums, not to mention the power to seize computers if they wanted to.
Considering, like most people on motoring forums, I didn't think I'd ever said anything actually incriminating on a forum, I didn't think I had much to hide, either.
I appreciate that IP adresses can be traced but surely there is no hard eveidence that it was actually you who made the postings.
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