RE: German cars have to cut emissions

RE: German cars have to cut emissions

Tuesday 4th September 2007

German cars have to cut emissions

In five years time, every new European car will have to be as clean as a diesel Vauxhall Tigra


The German Environment Minister, Sigmar Gabriel, has said that ALL new cars built from 2012 will have to comply to Europe-wide emissions regulations.

All new cars will have to emit fewer than 120 grams of CO2 per kilometre, which will make life interesting for German performance and luxury car manufacturers.

To give an idea of scale, an Audi A6 2.7 emits 192g/km and a Porsche Cayenne 320 g/km. A Vauxhall Tigra 1.3 CDTI emits the required 120g/km. Oh dear.

none of this in five years
none of this in five years

Author
Discussion

MK4 Slowride

Original Poster:

10,028 posts

207 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
So what about heavy industry when are they going to get limitations & extra taxes on their emissions? Very irritating all this.

Bing o

15,184 posts

218 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Having enjoyed a gentle stroll thought the City this morning, I'd defy anyone to blame cars for the pollution when it's the myriad vans, buses and taxis spewing out crap. Not the nice comfy Mercs and even 911's....

tigger1

8,402 posts

220 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
yikes

That'll be interesting to see how it pans out - but I guess the companies will threaten to up sticks and move abroad, to public outcry, and Germany will go back to using what I think the rest of Europe has agreed - that 'average' CO2 output needs to be <120g/km

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
The Germans de facto killing their own industry - don't hold your breath for it to materialize...

Marki

15,763 posts

269 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
tigger1 said:
yikes

Germany will go back to using what I think the rest of Europe has agreed - that 'average' CO2 output needs to be <120g/km
Is that the agreement then an average 120g/km ?

Dino D

1,953 posts

220 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
This sounds like a load of hot air. The article states that the minister has merely SAID this. He has not passed a law or even drafted a bill.

Ministers say alot of things, mostly crap so I wouldn't read too much into this.

Besides, which government will commit political suicide by instatntly killing of the German Luxury Saloon / Performance Car / SUV - an industry that employs a large part of the population and responsible for for a large share of exports?

Silverbullet767

10,680 posts

205 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
This will fall flat on its face quicker than john prescott with his laces undone.

RichardD

3,560 posts

244 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
tigger1 said:
that 'average' CO2 output needs to be <120g/km
One US PH'er posted that a reason that Chevrolet as a brand now includes Daewoo cars was to lower the average emissions.

Porsche Poxster / Poorman / 910 ("VW Fox&quotwink 599cc city cars anyone hehe

Don

28,377 posts

283 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Don't see this happening. Basically they are saying all SUVs, sports cars and even large family saloons will be non-compliant ("illegal&quotwink.

If you went for the "average" the problem is that you are saying companies that specialise in SUVs or sports cars and don't make other types will be non-compliant ("illegal&quotwink. This would force smaller car companies to merge in order to gain a fleet that might be complient.

Ferrari and Fiat. Volksvagen and Porsche.

This would create a small number of super-manufacturers operating in monopolistic conditions - cannot be good for the public...unless they're planning on bloody "nationalising" the car manufacturers and will only allow the state-owned car maker to produce state-approved design cars.

ing green-meanie communists. It really is time we left the EU.

CommanderJameson

22,096 posts

225 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
This is un-news. Politicians say crashingly stupid things on a daily basis.

Please report back when something actually happens.

dingocooke

670 posts

219 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
MK4 Slowride said:
So what about heavy industry when are they going to get limitations & extra taxes on their emissions? Very irritating all this.
Unlike the rest of the world, our rapidly declining manufacturing industry has been taxed on CO2 emissions for some time via a carbon tax on electrical power; of course none of this counts in China or the USA; what kind of mugs are we.

Marki

15,763 posts

269 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Gazboy said:
Wasn't it the French who proposed this?
I might have known they would be behind it hehe

Kubica

13,107 posts

211 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Marki said:
Gazboy said:
Wasn't it the French who proposed this?
I might have known they would be behind it hehe
Makes sense, a lot of their diesel's and small petrols do very well on emissions. Got to hand it to the French - they certainly know how to hang on to their car industry. Remember what they did in the 70's when the influx of imported Japanese cars started?

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Yes, and the EU will have to look to protectionist policies again if it restricts domestic manufacturers to making cars people don't want to buy.

MK4 Slowride

Original Poster:

10,028 posts

207 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
dingocooke said:
MK4 Slowride said:
So what about heavy industry when are they going to get limitations & extra taxes on their emissions? Very irritating all this.
Unlike the rest of the world, our rapidly declining manufacturing industry has been taxed on CO2 emissions for some time via a carbon tax on electrical power; of course none of this counts in China or the USA; what kind of mugs are we.
Weak & toothless mugs unfortunately.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
otolith said:
Yes, and the EU will have to look to protectionist policies again if it restricts domestic manufacturers to making cars people don't want to buy.
yes

Or, of course, manufacturers would start marketing 'light commercial vehicles' that are - of course - exempt from such restrictions, to general folks like you and me, which means we'd end up sitting in the same traffic jams as before in erm, light commercial vehicles with leather and air con, and emitting about double the volume of CO2 as back when we were allowed to choose the vehicle we wanted in the first place.

Then our domestic motor industry forgets how to build a decent car as there's no margin in them anymore.

Sounds strangely familiar, that...

Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 4th September 12:16

Al 450

1,390 posts

220 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
And on the day Porsche announces it has bought more of VW? They can declare an average C02 amount based on everything from Lupo through to Cayenne.

This law is never going to happen.

Schnell

26,140 posts

213 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Al 450 said:
And on the day Porsche announces it has bought more of VW? They can declare an average C02 amount based on everything from Lupo through to Cayenne.

This law is never going to happen.
Agreed.

Besides if I remember correctly the proposed Kyoto protocol hasn't even worked properly, so I doubt very much this will.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
Even the Tigra is actually 124g/km. How many cars are there that actually emit less than 120g/km?

I don't support these ideas, and I couldn't agree more about industry emitting more etc, but a lot of cars out there are actually hopelessly inefficient, and that hurts our wallets as emissions is directly linked to mpg. I'd obviously like to see cars like the TVR Sagaris and 911 Turbo still built (as they're made in relatively small numbers), but your average car on the street (0-60 in 9 or 10 seconds, top end of 120mph, 160-200 g/km and 35-40mpg) shouldn't really be using similar or more fuel than my Elise (0-60 in 5 seconds, top end of 135mph, 163g/km and 40-50mpg). We need more clever thinking from engineers - where an average family car uses considerably less fuel than something like my Elise.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 4th September 2007
quotequote all
No way will this happen. Porsche, BMW, VW Group and Mercedes will never allow it until tehy car get the desired level of performance from a low emission car. It's absurd in any case as the number of cars at the highest levels is far lower than the number at average levels.