10 weeks in jail for 172 mph in a porsche!!!

[Apache]

pikey said:

derestrictor said:

fluffnik said:

Quite a lot of busy yet unrestricted 2-laners around Düsseldorf which is about as far from the sticks as you can get.

Commuter traffic seems to flow around 120-130mph...

So why, WHY can't it happen here? What IS the difference - are Germans superior to us meandering Brits?

In a word, yes. Cultural differences play a big part. They are much safer - more aware of their surroundings, far less aggrogant, aggressive, and dangerous.

That was what struck me when I drove on an Autobahn for the first time - it wouldn't work in Britain due to the people's aggression.

Do you not think some of this could be down to sheer frustration?
The Germans mindset comes from being unfettered, I'm pretty sure we could become as aware as they are with a little less nannying.
As for 'cultural' differences, not sure where you're going with that one Pikey

[m12_nathan]

hora said:

Hmmmmmm do certain people on here really feel that they are capable of controlling a car at 170 on in one case 200mph on a dual carriage A road? If you really are why dont you race in any formulae professionally? Or do you earn alot of money and its arrogance talking?

I once tried to drive a car at 71 mph, as soon as the needle went past 70 it turned into an air bourne fireball. Lesson learnt there.

[pikey]

Apache said:

The Germans mindset comes from being unfettered, I'm pretty sure we could become as aware as they are with a little less nannying.

As for 'cultural' differences, not sure where you're going with that one Pikey

Cultural differences... as in Italian, French, Spanish, German, English - neighbours but all living quite differently. For example, our government do something we don't like, we moan, grumble & do nothing. The French government do something they don't like, they park their tractors in the roads and shrug their shoulders until it changes. Have you ever seen a German train timetable? It's got a staggering amount of information in it (most relating to accuracy) where we're glad if a train turns up! The French wouldn't dream about having less than 2 hours for lunch but us, well a sandwich at the desk will do. Cultural differences.

A generalisation, but the Germans are very trustworthy, safe, sensible drivers. Brits (and French, and certainly Italians!) are generally badly behaved and can't be trusted. This is why I think derestricted roads here just won't work.

To elaborate on 'badly behaved': egotistical, cutting people up, not giving enough room, following too close, poor lane discipline, etc..

[bennyboysvuk]

dern said:

Plotloss said:

The A404 is an A road, thats dualled, like the section this chap was on.

Thats safe for 172 in the right conditions, christ, its safe for over 200 in the right conditions.

Its overly simple to call an A road an inappropriate place because its an A road.

Sorry but I disagree. Even if you are perfectly familiar with your car and drive it on a daily basis you still won't be absolutely sure of the outcome it something goes tits up at any speed although you may have an idea. However, at these sorts of speeds you really don't have any idea at all, the variables are too great and the risks are completely unknown. You can say that you accept the risk and your life is your own and so on and you'd be right but you'd have no idea where you car or the bits would go in the event of a mechanical failure. Added to that the car wasn't even his so would presumably have been unfamiliar with it. The point I was making is that it's overly simplistic to suggest someone is being a old lady just because they have made up their minds that 172mph is too fast. My personal opinion is that people are well within their rights to take whatever risk they like as long as they are absolutely sure that they are the only ones that can be affected. If you're potentially endangering others then you're not allowing them to make a choice. I can't see that anyone driving on an open road at 172mph can seriously suggest that they have all the bases covered.

Maybe stirring a bit, but you could say exactly the same thing about a car going at 70 mph. You're still potentially endangering others.

[the_ginga_ninja]

Afternoon All!

I drive this section of the A420 every day, twice a day. The place that the Police hide (and I do mean hide) is at a T-Junction leading directly onto the D/C about 200m from the end of the d/c and 600m from the commencement of a 50 limit.

The 2 mile stretch of D/C does have multiple junctions and HGV lay-by's adjoining it, albeit mostly towards the later end of it, it is a rather graceful long left-hander for the most part and people do drive over the 70 limit there as a matter of course. It is rarely if ever free of traffic before midnight. Some of the junctions that adjoin it do so from the left into the 'slow' lane, and there is one that also joins via the central reservation into the 'fast' lane meaning that you have to cross this lane to get into the inside lane. This junction is also commenced from a standing start only due to the nature of it.

Now, I have no problems with speed. It could be said that I do so regularly myself. I've managed to get from central Edinburgh to Oxford in 5 hours including multiple re-fuel and toilet breaks which could mean that I spent as much time in the 100mph bracket as possible. I'm no great fan of speeds greater than 130 as I've never owned a car that I felt comfortable doing so in. Given the choice of driving at >100mph then I would do so. This I tell you just to put it into perspective that I am not a speed nazi.

HOWEVER

As mentioned there is a time and a place to do that which is against the law, and whilst not necessarily increasing the chance of an accident in and of itself, it does increase the potential damage and fall out if one of life's little uncertainties becomes...er, certain. Speed itself may not be dangerous (cue Concorde at the speed of sound carrying passengers with a superb safety record), however the use of speed depends upon vehicle, training and conditions. You can mitigate risk by driving the right vehicle in the right place at the right time in the right conditions with the right training.

If I remember correctly the driver was driving in the mid-afternoon along this stretch, so let's put this into perspective:

Never driven or at least unfamiliar with the vehicle and almost certainly these speeds and the control it requires
'Mixing' it with road users that are not expecting to be approached at Circa 100mph faster than they're going, or pulling out from a junction potentially into its path doing 150mph faster than they are.
Doing this speed either a)willfully ignoring the fact that the drivers will be pulling out from either side of the D/C into his path or b)not knowing that this is the case in which is driving into an uncertain future as the sighting of this road is not going to be great, especially at that speed.

We live in a world where most drivers are simple zombies, paying scant attention to the world out-side their little metal and glass bubble (other than to gesticulate and flash at people who have the bare-faced nerve to over-take them). While it may be that driving fast is 'neutral' in an arbitrary way, other road users are, in general, either stupid, ignorant, blind, in a world of their own or listening to Radio 4 (that last one may just be me). Or any combination of.

In reality somone pulling out onto the road could take 5 secs from checking to see the road is clear and actually being in the roadway itself, and while it is stupid not to continue checking, it doesn't make it less true and would not mitigate liability in the case of an accident should a collision happen at that speed. In this time this driver could have come from around the bend (like I said the sightline wont be that long or great) and have traveled 0.23 of a mile.

That could be nasty.



There are 3 arguments being shouted about here: Sentencing, Speed as an arbitrary number, and this guy's actions. With specific regard to this guy I proffer the following thought: He's an absolute bleeding tool.

Edited by the_ginga_ninja on Wednesday 26th September 15:04

[dern]

bennyboysvuk said:

dern said:

Plotloss said:

The A404 is an A road, thats dualled, like the section this chap was on.

Thats safe for 172 in the right conditions, christ, its safe for over 200 in the right conditions.

Its overly simple to call an A road an inappropriate place because its an A road.

Sorry but I disagree. Even if you are perfectly familiar with your car and drive it on a daily basis you still won't be absolutely sure of the outcome it something goes tits up at any speed although you may have an idea. However, at these sorts of speeds you really don't have any idea at all, the variables are too great and the risks are completely unknown. You can say that you accept the risk and your life is your own and so on and you'd be right but you'd have no idea where you car or the bits would go in the event of a mechanical failure. Added to that the car wasn't even his so would presumably have been unfamiliar with it. The point I was making is that it's overly simplistic to suggest someone is being a old lady just because they have made up their minds that 172mph is too fast. My personal opinion is that people are well within their rights to take whatever risk they like as long as they are absolutely sure that they are the only ones that can be affected. If you're potentially endangering others then you're not allowing them to make a choice. I can't see that anyone driving on an open road at 172mph can seriously suggest that they have all the bases covered.

Maybe stirring a bit, but you could say exactly the same thing about a car going at 70 mph. You're still potentially endangering others.

Of course you are but everyone has signed up to accepting the same level of risk by driving in the first place.

[fluffnik]

hora said:

Perhaps but public roads aren't race tracks.

Driving a well maintained car along a well maintained A-bahn at ~170mph isn't racing...

[fluffnik]

pikey said:

derestrictor said:

fluffnik said:

Quite a lot of busy yet unrestricted 2-laners around Düsseldorf which is about as far from the sticks as you can get.

Commuter traffic seems to flow around 120-130mph...

So why, WHY can't it happen here? What IS the difference - are Germans superior to us meandering Brits?

In a word, yes. Cultural differences play a big part. They are much safer - more aware of their surroundings, far less aggrogant, aggressive, and dangerous.

That was what struck me when I drove on an Autobahn for the first time - it wouldn't work in Britain due to the people's aggression.

Fear makes the Autobahn work:

• People don't change lanes without checking their mirrors because they fear death.
• People don't linger away from the rightmost lane when traveling slowly because they fear death.
• People don't keep the boot in when approaching knots of traffic because they fear death.

You don't need extra training, you just need fear.

[fluffnik]

hora said:

I'd happily drive down a A road as fast as I could but only if I knew the other way was closed to traffic.

What if you could see it to be clear for twice your stopping distance?

[pikey]

fluffnik said:

Fear makes the Autobahn work:

• People don't change lanes without checking their mirrors because they fear death.
• People don't linger away from the rightmost lane when traveling slowly because they fear death.
• People don't keep the boot in when approaching knots of traffic because they fear death.

You don't need extra training, you just need fear.

Indeed. Cars modified to have a 6 inch nail poking in front of the drivers head would do the same thing

[fluffnik]

hora said:

fluffnik said:

hora said:

I'd happily drive down a A road as fast as I could but only if I knew the other way was closed to traffic.

What if you could see it to be clear for twice your stopping distance?

Hmm I'd like to say yes but you dont always feel on the ball/'with it'

...and sometimes the weather is shoite or there's shoite on the roadway, but...

hora said:

Lets just say I've been down the A702 to Edinburgh and 'leap frogged' a few cars 'at a time' in my time...

A fine road with several safe opportunities for bulk overtakes.

...perhaps even a couple of places where 172mph would not be outrageous?

[G Man]

The A420 section at Kingston Bagpuize where he was done is a Dual carriageway, 3 miles long no entrance or exits until the start/exit of the Western section.

The Abingdon police hang out at the junction zap you 1/2 mile before the junction, this is how I was done at 85 mph, I always cross the junction at national speed limits ...

[derestrictor]

G Man said:

The A420 section at Kingston Bagpuize where he was done is a Dual carriageway, 3 miles long no entrance or exits until the start/exit of the Western section.

Straight enough for the expedition of suitable rampage in such a car given sufficient freedom from numptitia?

[fluffnik]

hora said:

(re A702), the first time I went down this I didnt know of the two big long straights, came off the motorway in my bro in laws 53plate S3 that he lent to us for the weekend and came up behind 8 cars in a line, after I had passed them all I came across the first long straight

Leaves you more space to find V-max I guess.