Race and horse transporters banned within M25
Discussion
I'm slightly surprised that this issue has not already been debated. Hopefully it will be picked up and made a front page news item, because in my view, things have just gone too far.
Transport for London (aka Ken Livingstone) recently wrote to me explaining the London Low Emission Zone. They wrote to me because I am the registered keeper of a private HGV - a 7.5 tonne race transporter, which does not meet Euro III emissions standards.
Apparently, unless I 'upgrade my fleet' or have the vehicle modified, I will be subject to a daily charge similar to the congestion charge when entreing London.
This didn't worry me unduly, because I have never needed to drive the truck in Central London.
I then flipped the page and realised that for these purposes 'London' is in fact Greater London. More simply put, it covers pretty much everything within the M25.
Now this also didn't worry me unduly, because my trips inside the M25 are not that frequent, so if I have to pay the £8 or whatever it is charge, its not much of an issue for me.
I then flipped the page to discover that the charge is an astronomic £200 a day!!!! "The level of charge has been set in order to encourage operators to clean up their fleets rather than pay the daily charge".
I don't recall an act of Parliament that allows Ken Livingstone to effectively ban my completely legal and roadworthy vehicle, on which I pay annual road tax, from a substantial proportion of our roads. It seems to me absolutely incredible that such a thing is even possible.
I do less than 3,000 miles in this vehicle and I have little doubt that the effect on global warming of building a new one and scrapping this one far out weighs the miniscule impact I have on the planet by continuing to drive it.
The cost of trying to 'clean up' my vehicle is well in excess of £2,000 +VAT. Still, that's only 10 trips beyond the M25. According to the leaflet I 'could reorganise my vehicle fleet so that only vehicles which meet the LEZ emissions standards drive within the zone'. Well that's ok then.
The military are exempt. Presumably the particulate they generate is harmless.
Those of us with race or horse transporters should be up in arms about this.
Transport for London (aka Ken Livingstone) recently wrote to me explaining the London Low Emission Zone. They wrote to me because I am the registered keeper of a private HGV - a 7.5 tonne race transporter, which does not meet Euro III emissions standards.
Apparently, unless I 'upgrade my fleet' or have the vehicle modified, I will be subject to a daily charge similar to the congestion charge when entreing London.
This didn't worry me unduly, because I have never needed to drive the truck in Central London.
I then flipped the page and realised that for these purposes 'London' is in fact Greater London. More simply put, it covers pretty much everything within the M25.
Now this also didn't worry me unduly, because my trips inside the M25 are not that frequent, so if I have to pay the £8 or whatever it is charge, its not much of an issue for me.
I then flipped the page to discover that the charge is an astronomic £200 a day!!!! "The level of charge has been set in order to encourage operators to clean up their fleets rather than pay the daily charge".
I don't recall an act of Parliament that allows Ken Livingstone to effectively ban my completely legal and roadworthy vehicle, on which I pay annual road tax, from a substantial proportion of our roads. It seems to me absolutely incredible that such a thing is even possible.
I do less than 3,000 miles in this vehicle and I have little doubt that the effect on global warming of building a new one and scrapping this one far out weighs the miniscule impact I have on the planet by continuing to drive it.
The cost of trying to 'clean up' my vehicle is well in excess of £2,000 +VAT. Still, that's only 10 trips beyond the M25. According to the leaflet I 'could reorganise my vehicle fleet so that only vehicles which meet the LEZ emissions standards drive within the zone'. Well that's ok then.
The military are exempt. Presumably the particulate they generate is harmless.
Those of us with race or horse transporters should be up in arms about this.
It's outrageous. As are/will be other extremes of the existing administration that 10 years ago managed to get hold of the reins of this country and through careful manipulation and corruption of the system have managed to reduce the effectiveness of all the checks and balances that would otherwise have prevented their excesses. The net effect of their malignant control is particularly troublesome since it looks as though their informed meddling in the electoral system and media means that effectively there is now no prospect of their removal from power. So bend over and get ready to receive incoming. I kid you not, we are going to get absolutely shafted by every Tom, Dick and Harry that wears the badge of "control" and has been given free run of the infrastructure.
It is a big issue that has been overlooked by many. There are several Caravan Clubsites inside the M25, lots of motorhome owners will not be able to get there now, and this applys to people who live in the area who own such vehicles, they have to pay the same to drive out of london.
It is being enforced by the new cameras that are being erected on the main roads. Now there seems to be a legal issue that is just being ignored, KL is being allowed to do this I suspect to see the reaction, if it works with little hassle expect it coming to a town near you.
I also suspect that the buses will be exempt if they are London transport.
Probably the reason the military are exempt is they will be needed to put down riots when Londoners have finally had enough.
It is being enforced by the new cameras that are being erected on the main roads. Now there seems to be a legal issue that is just being ignored, KL is being allowed to do this I suspect to see the reaction, if it works with little hassle expect it coming to a town near you.
I also suspect that the buses will be exempt if they are London transport.
Probably the reason the military are exempt is they will be needed to put down riots when Londoners have finally had enough.
sjn2004 said:
How do "they" know you've entered "Greater London"?
If you go pretty much anywhere within the M25 you will see these or variations of them all over the place. They have been steadily spreading, even on relatively minor roads - there is one round the corner to me mounted on top of a set of pedestrian crossing traffic lights.
Graham, in 2012 they will get you, as then the goal posts shift to Euro IV.
I have no issue with governments cleaning up emissions by tightening the regs for new vehicles. I have a huge issue with applying tese regs retrospectively to older vehicles. My local diesel specialists are gobsmacked by the whole thing - and the complete lack of any consistent technical guidance.
The whole thing is so outrageous it can't be legal, surely?
Vehilces are detected by camera. Fines are £1,000 for a vehicle over 3.5 tonnes, reduced to £500 if paid within 14 days. If not paid within 28 days it goes up to £1500.
Horse of the year show at Olympia is finished then....
( I can kind of see his point if I was tooling about in the City of London doing multiple deliveries all day every day in a 1983 truck belching out fumes. But I'm not. And if I did it wouldn't be economic to run an old thing like that. But for low mileage vehicles like mine, or a horse box, the trucks can go on forever. Until some left wing tw@t decides to make an issue of them). It epitomises much of what is wrong with today's meddling 'we know best' government.
God I'm cross about this!!!!
I have no issue with governments cleaning up emissions by tightening the regs for new vehicles. I have a huge issue with applying tese regs retrospectively to older vehicles. My local diesel specialists are gobsmacked by the whole thing - and the complete lack of any consistent technical guidance.
The whole thing is so outrageous it can't be legal, surely?
Vehilces are detected by camera. Fines are £1,000 for a vehicle over 3.5 tonnes, reduced to £500 if paid within 14 days. If not paid within 28 days it goes up to £1500.
Horse of the year show at Olympia is finished then....
( I can kind of see his point if I was tooling about in the City of London doing multiple deliveries all day every day in a 1983 truck belching out fumes. But I'm not. And if I did it wouldn't be economic to run an old thing like that. But for low mileage vehicles like mine, or a horse box, the trucks can go on forever. Until some left wing tw@t decides to make an issue of them). It epitomises much of what is wrong with today's meddling 'we know best' government.
God I'm cross about this!!!!
Ken Livingstone and Greater London Assembly do NOT have any powers outside of the London postal zones, so Herts, Essex, Bucks, Middx, Surrey and Kent counties with areas within the M25 are safe. These counties can however follow policies set by the assembly if there is the chance of making extra revenue.
tank slapper said:
sjn2004 said:
How do "they" know you've entered "Greater London"?
If you go pretty much anywhere within the M25 you will see these or variations of them all over the place. They have been steadily spreading, even on relatively minor roads - there is one round the corner to me mounted on top of a set of pedestrian crossing traffic lights.
I recently was on a street that is a border for the CC. If you are driving on this street, you are not liable for the charge. If you turn off the street in the direction of central London, however, you go into the zone.
A side turning off this street was a cul-de-sac mews, no more than 100 metres long. The mews was on the central London side of the border so - you guessed it - there was a full set of these cameras to cover the 100 metres of the cul-de-sac. Pathetic.
That doesn't surprise me in the least. Bureaucratic stupidity at its worst. I hadn't been into central London for a look round for quite a while, and was amazed at the number of cameras that had appeared since the last time. It is really noticable now and actually a little unnerving.
teamHOLDENracing said:
Graham, in 2012 they will get you, as then the goal posts shift to Euro IV.
Thats ok then I can go by train... OH i tried that a couple of weeks ago....had to leave home at 6:30 for a 3 hour meeting at lunchtime, and got home after 11pm. Oh yes and i had to get a taxi for the last bit home as they cancelled one of the trains !!!!
If they keep on this way there will be no traffic problem in london as it will soon be a barren wasteland...
I recently was on a street that is a border for the CC. If you are driving on this street, you are not liable for the charge. If you turn off the street in the direction of central London, however, you go into the zone.
A side turning off this street was a cul-de-sac mews, no more than 100 metres long. The mews was on the central London side of the border so - you guessed it - there was a full set of these cameras to cover the 100 metres of the cul-de-sac. Pathetic.
[/quote]
I had a overnight stop-over in london recently and staid at the Ibis on Towerbridge road which is a border for the CC zone, i arrived at 1am and was directed to the carpark which was in an entrance off a side street behind the hotel. Next morning, i came out of the car park and turned right and went back on to Tower bridge road and out of London.
I got a fine through for not paying the congestion charge, something like 70 quid for a 5 metre stretch of road between the carpark exit and tower bridge road driving AWAY from the CC>
Needless to say i will never be staying at that hotel again.
The CC has had a huge impact which ken refuses to accept imho, it damages business because i simply won't go in to London any more and use shops and services outside the CC zone instead.
A side turning off this street was a cul-de-sac mews, no more than 100 metres long. The mews was on the central London side of the border so - you guessed it - there was a full set of these cameras to cover the 100 metres of the cul-de-sac. Pathetic.
[/quote]
I had a overnight stop-over in london recently and staid at the Ibis on Towerbridge road which is a border for the CC zone, i arrived at 1am and was directed to the carpark which was in an entrance off a side street behind the hotel. Next morning, i came out of the car park and turned right and went back on to Tower bridge road and out of London.
I got a fine through for not paying the congestion charge, something like 70 quid for a 5 metre stretch of road between the carpark exit and tower bridge road driving AWAY from the CC>
Needless to say i will never be staying at that hotel again.
The CC has had a huge impact which ken refuses to accept imho, it damages business because i simply won't go in to London any more and use shops and services outside the CC zone instead.
Edited by lambogenie on Saturday 3rd November 10:54
TFL said:
It will also include other specialist vehicles that are derived from lorries and vans including; motorised horse boxes, breakdown and recovery vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, gritters, sweepers, concrete mixers, tippers, removals lorries, fire engines, motor caravans, ambulances and large hearses (over 2.5 tonnes) are also included.
So basically...
Don't break down
Don't live there expecting your household waste to be collected and live in filth
Don't expect any safety when the roads freeze over and instead go ice skating
Don't even think of moving out of London to escape the charges
Don't have any nasty car accidents or set yourself on fire
Don't decide you want to have a heart attack or feel like your going to die (death won't help you now)
And even if you do decide to take the easy option out, we'll then prevent you having a proper send off
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