RE: BMW 135i First Drive
Discussion
This is such a disappointment!
Donut said:
scoobydo said:
I don't think BMW are very confident about it holding it's value, I got a quote last wk on a new 135i and with bmw finance, after 3 years the ballon settlement figure is £10,800 or hand it back.
Thats a GFV of cica 35%...Sounds OK to me seeing as the scheme is designed to give you a small return.
John
Edited by LathamJohnP on Tuesday 6th November 11:18
Now now chaps, I'd have thought you lot would have cottoned on to the fact that BMW don't really make cars for petrolheads anymore.
I mean, to appeal to 'us', who generally buy used, they'd need to make cars that would never sell in the first place!
Joe Public, which by default must include the huge American market, don't want all the sound deadening removed, direct steering, spikey LSD, and howling top-end power.
Apart from the styling, and I don't think this will be one of those 'grow on you' designs like the E60 was, what really bothers me is the weight...
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I mean, to appeal to 'us', who generally buy used, they'd need to make cars that would never sell in the first place!
Joe Public, which by default must include the huge American market, don't want all the sound deadening removed, direct steering, spikey LSD, and howling top-end power.
Apart from the styling, and I don't think this will be one of those 'grow on you' designs like the E60 was, what really bothers me is the weight...
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
LathamJohnP said:
Donut said:
scoobydo said:
I don't think BMW are very confident about it holding it's value, I got a quote last wk on a new 135i and with bmw finance, after 3 years the ballon settlement figure is £10,800 or hand it back.
Thats a GFV of cica 35%...Sounds OK to me seeing as the scheme is designed to give you a small return.
John
Edited by LathamJohnP on Tuesday 6th November 11:18
LathamJohnP said:
Donut said:
Name a car that doesn't (lose 20-25k in 3 years), way it is unfortuately.
Any car that costs less than 20k-25k 
Golf R32? About £25k new. Surely can't lose more than 15k of that in 3 years?
John
Edited by LathamJohnP on Tuesday 6th November 12:06
apart from cheaper ones...I have an 16 month old Golf GTi arriving in p/x tomorrow having done 5K it is £11,000 cheaper than when new.
Worst I have ever seen was an R500 Merc 4 months and 4,000 miles you'd have lost more than the value of the R32!!
Dunk76 said:
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I'd weight until a magazine like Evo bothers to stick one on the scales and actually SEE with their own eyes what it weighs in at empty (ie, ready for fuel and driver and then go)By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
Also what the competitors actually weigh.
If the figures look wrong, usually they are...
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Dunk76 said:
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I'd weight until a magazine like Evo bothers to stick one on the scales and actually SEE with their own eyes what it weighs in at empty (ie, ready for fuel and driver and then go)By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
Also what the competitors actually weigh.
If the figures look wrong, usually they are...
Dave
You'd trust a motoring journalist over the official bumpf?
Thats one odd quote too: if the figures look wrong, usually they are..."
hmm I'll remember that for future discussions!
Mr Whippy said:
Dunk76 said:
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I'd weight until a magazine like Evo bothers to stick one on the scales and actually SEE with their own eyes what it weighs in at empty (ie, ready for fuel and driver and then go)By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
Also what the competitors actually weigh.
If the figures look wrong, usually they are...
Dave
Jason_W said:
Mr Whippy said:
Dunk76 said:
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I'd weight until a magazine like Evo bothers to stick one on the scales and actually SEE with their own eyes what it weighs in at empty (ie, ready for fuel and driver and then go)By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
Also what the competitors actually weigh.
If the figures look wrong, usually they are...
Dave
I was under the impression (feel free to correct) that the standard method for giving weight of a vehicle was with a driver of a given weight, some fuel and luggage?
The way the article was written suggested that this wasn't normal. As I understand it, BMW normally used the car/fuel combination to give their car's weights which is why they can seem heavier than normal but the article appeared to suggest that this one had been weighed with man and luggage whereas the weight of the 335i from BMW's website quotes unladen weight.
Bring on the TII.
This thing has all the right raw materials, but too much larded on top of that.
Strip it all out, CSL-style, give it a proper LSD and controlable traction control (like the Lotus TRACS or Ferrari Mannetino) instead of that dubious electronic diff lock (or make the diff lock more controlable itself) and give it a competetive price tag.
I'd buy one...
This thing has all the right raw materials, but too much larded on top of that.
Strip it all out, CSL-style, give it a proper LSD and controlable traction control (like the Lotus TRACS or Ferrari Mannetino) instead of that dubious electronic diff lock (or make the diff lock more controlable itself) and give it a competetive price tag.
I'd buy one...
clonmult said:
Jason_W said:
Mr Whippy said:
Dunk76 said:
1550kgs is an awful lot of mass for a fairly diminutive car.
By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
I'd weight until a magazine like Evo bothers to stick one on the scales and actually SEE with their own eyes what it weighs in at empty (ie, ready for fuel and driver and then go)By comparison, the VW Passat 3.2 4motion SEL - which is a bloody great tank of a thing with more drivechain and a huge amount equipment as standard, is 1660kgs. The new Mercedes C350, which is bigger still, tips the scales at 1610kgs.
Physically, this thing must be 2/3rds the size of a Passat, or a C-Class, yet it's only 10% lighter - what are they making them out of? Pig Iron?
Also what the competitors actually weigh.
If the figures look wrong, usually they are...
Dave
I was under the impression (feel free to correct) that the standard method for giving weight of a vehicle was with a driver of a given weight, some fuel and luggage?
ing stupid!The whole idea of manufacturer weights is fine. My car book weight dry (no driver/fuel, but ready to go) is 1135kg, I weighed it in that state and it was 1131kg, so that can be much more accurate.
Adding driver weight before hand, and luggage, as per Porsche, is something like 8kg luggage and 72kg driver, but if you are 95kg, and you have no luggage or some luggage, it makes no sense.
Giving out weights basically, is meaningless for comparison when everyone is doing it differently with different weight drivers, fuel loads, luggage or not etc etc...
Dry and empty but ready to go is the only weight that makes ANY sense.
So, if someone can be arsed to try 'normalise' the given figures before making comparisons that would be fine. For all we know the Passat weight given earlier may well be with caveats added, or without optional extra's added where they are included in the BMW weight.
I'd go on what I saw on scales and known specifications alone. Going on manufacturer weight for side by side comparisons isn't meaningful.
Dave
Jason_W said:
The way the article was written suggested that this wasn't normal. As I understand it, BMW normally used the car/fuel combination to give their car's weights which is why they can seem heavier than normal but the article appeared to suggest that this one had been weighed with man and luggage whereas the weight of the 335i from BMW's website quotes unladen weight.
Exactly, instantly we are confused, question it, can't find simple information to make a comparison, and so make judgements or concessions based on the idea that a driver weighs alot, when they use a preset 10 stone person when a 15 stone person might think that the car is actually quite light then.Stupid Eurocracy 'standards' that mean fook all. If you want to know how much it weighs with you in, just add it bloody on
Dave
Dunk76 said:
Worth noting in my comparison that the Passat, for example, is SEL spec, and comes weighed down with just about everything except sunroof and sat-nav.
I suspect the BMW weight, although including driver and luggage, will exclude any optional extras over and above the base model.
Yep, may well do, but we can only speculate. Personally I think it's a great way to make comparisons with competitors difficult, they are masking the lardy cars they are making by misleading.I suspect the BMW weight, although including driver and luggage, will exclude any optional extras over and above the base model.
BMW say, ah, but we make our cars 'appear' heavier because we add X, Y, Z, wheras Porsche or Mercedes don't, but then they give the others weights in DIN, not EU spec, and so on we go mis-informing people.
Evo magazine give their stated condition before weighing. It's interesting that of about 20 cars they weighed a while ago, only two or three were actually under weight. Most were a good deal over, like a Gallardo being about 100kg more than spec, and the Ascari about 150kg!
Weigh the 335Ci with expected options side by side with it's peers and then compare, doing it off the stupid systems they use is fruitless imho
That said, I rekon it's still a bit heavy, but just not as heavy as it first appears
Dave
sprinter885 said:
Can't put my finger on it but that shot just looks so disproportioned.... bit like some school kid had a go at drawing a Dodge Viper & shortened the front end by a third & put Simon Cowell trouser waistline on it..
Wouldn't it look better balanced top to bottom without the side skirts? Is there anything behind them (other than air?).Just a thought.
John
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