RE: Six points for speeding

[Vipers]

TripleS said:

Vipers said:

odyssey2200 said:

F all to do with safety!

Just another turn of the screw againt the motorist.

Big brother flexing his muscles again because he can.

So you dont think a car driving 45 in a zone 30 is perhaps unsafe for the pedestrians and other road users, like cyclist, dear oh dear.......

It very well could be unsafe if it was a genuine 30 limit and there were pedestrians or cyclists around.

On the other hand it could be that portion of a 30 limit that starts well outside a village, and there are no hazards for the next couple of hundred yards, by which time you've arrived at the village and there will be hazards, making the 30 limit appropriate.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Dave, agree with your points, but take any stretch of road speed, and a number of drivers would probably come up with a number of suggestions for the limit, and why it should be. Just a thought as I am typing, with a ref to another post on here where the driver was caught doing 38 just inside the 30, there may be an arguement that a number of drivers do not actually start deacellerating until they have past the 30 mph sign, so by placing them well outside the villages, they "should" have slowed to 30 by the time they arrive in said village.

Certainly in Aberdeen coming from Stonehaven on the A90, as you approach the 40 zone adjcent to the first roundabout to turn over the bridge Dee, the camera is a few metres well inside the 40 limit, which is where most brake........... so they are probably still zipping along at 60 + after entering the 40 zone where pedestrians have to cross, and a bus stop which blocks the inside lane when it stops.

Tis a few who bugger it up for the many me thinks.

[wiz 1]

Road Pest said:

Seems sensible to me, if you want to increase people's use of public transport, ban them from driving......

Public transport is a great principle but in practice is CP

Regular bloke gets a few points for minor offences then is forgetful of the limit one night. Banned he loses his job, after months of struggle can't pay the mortgage. Wife takes the kids away leaving bloke with no house and no job.Faced with the options of no future employment suicide or life of crime seems the only option, or a life on the dole. Mean while wife becomes single parent, claims benefit. Children turn feral and end up in prison for drug/violent crime.
All because the bloke forgot that stretch of dual carriage had recently changed its limit.

New labour cares about the family

My AE

[Snooglefinder]

derestrictor said:

The start must be a military coup.

Crikey!

Certainly more effective than a petition though.....

A group of like minded individuals sharing a common ideology and goal have achieved much in history. The humble PH'ers time is nigh.

[stu_bar]

i say they punish people for ts10's (jumping traffic lights etc) more than speeding. its the people who are incapable of driving at speed that cause crashes/deaths etc rather than the speed they are travelling. example. an f1 driver can drive 100mph no problem at all on a narrow straight road, yet a 80+ yr old driver would not stand a chance of staying straight at such speed.

i work in insurance and believe me the comment made on the actual advert for this topic states alot of people having speeding convictions..... they are just as common as traffic signal offences and people who do not have insurance full stop!

[Road Pest]

wiz 1 said:

Road Pest said:

Seems sensible to me, if you want to increase people's use of public transport, ban them from driving......

Public transport is a great principle but in practice is CP

Regular bloke gets a few points for minor offences then is forgetful of the limit one night. Banned he loses his job, after months of struggle can't pay the mortgage. Wife takes the kids away leaving bloke with no house and no job.Faced with the options of no future employment suicide or life of crime seems the only option, or a life on the dole. Mean while wife becomes single parent, claims benefit. Children turn feral and end up in prison for drug/violent crime.
All because the bloke forgot that stretch of dual carriage had recently changed its limit.

New labour cares about the family

My AE

It does seem as a concept a rather underhand way of getting people to use buses. Maybe it is just simply a way of raising revenue after all. 3 police cars on an empty open stretch of motorway on a beautiful day in summer. Clearly they were just there to help make the road a safer place.

[uktrailmonster]

stu_bar said:

an f1 driver can drive 100mph no problem at all on a narrow straight road

Interesting that you use F1 drivers as an example of great drivers. I work in F1 and I've seen quite a few F1 drivers involved in road crashes. Some of them drive like complete tts on the road.

Just an observation.

[Road Pest]

uktrailmonster said:

stu_bar said:

an f1 driver can drive 100mph no problem at all on a narrow straight road

Interesting that you use F1 drivers as an example of great drivers. I work in F1 and I've seen quite a few F1 drivers involved in road crashes. Some of them drive like complete tts on the road.

Just an observation.

Reminds me of a story I heard recently, bit sketchy on the details, and whether it's true ..... Two pilots were stopped by a road block in a porsche going flat out wearing night vision goggles. Shot past a patrol car who didn't know what went by them (pitch black) and they called in for a roadblock several miles down the road. There are some people I'd trust to drive me at speed and some I wouldn't, it's not just age, but attitude as well as many other factors. We all know sensible policing of the roads, driver education and pedestrian awareness are far greater tools to make Britains roads safer than arbitrary speed limits. Just setting speed limits and thinking that this will solve problems is at best just lazy.

[rbryant]

Vipers said:

rbryant said:

Ever tried doing 20 mph when the road is clear?

So are you saying that if the road was clear, then the speed limit is not maintainable?

Up in Portlethen, Aberdenshire we have the 20 zones during the times of kiddlewinks come out of school, there is more than often no people to be seen, but I have to say have no problem sticking to 20 along the nice straight road past the school.

Any Qualified driver worth his salt should be able to maintain a constant speed notwithstanding what that limit is?, or am I only the one

Any competent driver should be able to adjust his speed to the conditions, weather, traffic, time of day, presence or otherwise of pedestrians & school kids, space, chance of a surprise.

I do 15 mph in a 30 limit past a school at 8.30 am, 30 mph at the same spot when there are no mummy's cars lining the street and no kids and a wide pavement so I can see at least my stopping distance, and often 45 mph in a ludicrous 30 mph stretch of dual carriageway - again with lots of space, no pedestrians and no side turnings.

Rules are pathetically poor and simplistic compared to your own judgement and responsibility. We should be encouraging judgement and responsibility, not inplying that all you need to do to be safe is observe the speed limit.

[herewego]

rbryant said:

Vipers said:

rbryant said:

Ever tried doing 20 mph when the road is clear?

So are you saying that if the road was clear, then the speed limit is not maintainable?

Up in Portlethen, Aberdenshire we have the 20 zones during the times of kiddlewinks come out of school, there is more than often no people to be seen, but I have to say have no problem sticking to 20 along the nice straight road past the school.

Any Qualified driver worth his salt should be able to maintain a constant speed notwithstanding what that limit is?, or am I only the one

Any competent driver should be able to adjust his speed to the conditions, weather, traffic, time of day, presence or otherwise of pedestrians & school kids, space, chance of a surprise.

I do 15 mph in a 30 limit past a school at 8.30 am, 30 mph at the same spot when there are no mummy's cars lining the street and no kids and a wide pavement so I can see at least my stopping distance, and often 45 mph in a ludicrous 30 mph stretch of dual carriageway - again with lots of space, no pedestrians and no side turnings.

Rules are pathetically poor and simplistic compared to your own judgement and responsibility. We should be encouraging judgement and responsibility, not inplying that all you need to do to be safe is observe the speed limit.

I agree we should be encouraging judgement and responsibility, but nobody does say or imply that "all you need to do to be safe is observe the speed limit".
It is poor judgement and lack of reponsibility to drive fast through a residential area. Many people show poor judgement in this regard, hence the need for a stated limit.
Some limits are wrong, I agree. When we see a limit that is wrong we should write to the local authority and tell them.

[dcb]

herewego said:

Many people show poor judgement in this regard, hence the need for a stated limit.

Nonsense - better training is a much better idea.

However, this is dumbed down UK so I don't expect
that idea to catch on.

I'd be grateful for a reminder of exactly why the
"Driving Standard Agency" exists.

If a few drivers fail to meet the standard, either
get them off the road, or train them better.

Don't just put in more and more draconian speed limits
for us all.

Treat us like fools, and so why are you surprised
when we act like fools ?

[herewego]

dcb said:

herewego said:

Many people show poor judgement in this regard, hence the need for a stated limit.

Nonsense - better training is a much better idea.

However, this is dumbed down UK so I don't expect
that idea to catch on.

I'd be grateful for a reminder of exactly why the
"Driving Standard Agency" exists.

If a few drivers fail to meet the standard, either
get them off the road, or train them better.

Don't just put in more and more draconian speed limits
for us all.

Treat us like fools, and so why are you surprised
when we act like fools ?

Do you think if people were required to take more training that they would drive slowly through all residential areas? I don't think so. After all, if we say to people please don't exceed 30 in residential areas as there are lots of people about, then we put up 30 limit signs and offer punishments to those who exceed it and people continue to ignore the pleas and the potential punishment, why should training make any difference?

[motormad]

spoonoff said:

Obviously in residential areas it's a no-brainer.
Let's consider the far less common senario of, say, a deserted 10 mile stretch of duel carrigeway, that for whatever reason is under a 30 mph limit. You would be tempted to put your foot down, but you aren't going to enjoy the drive any more at 45 than at 30.
Time taken to cover the distance at 45 mph: 13 minutes 20 seconds.
Time taken to cover it at 30 mph: 20 minutes.

So the pertinent question is really, what exactly do you intend to do with the extra 6 minutes 40 seconds???

Have an extra pint ???

[motormad]

To be more realistic on this topic - I find it odd that it's cars being driven by persons of asian ancestry which generally overtake me like 'bats out of hell' whenever I'm on the M6...
I wouldn't like to be thought of as 'classifying racial sterotypes' - maybe it's just because of the proximity of Birmingham.
I don't agree with anyone speeding in residential areas, and where I live the streets are fairly narrow with cars parked aither side. The residents all observe a 'self-enforced' 20 mph maximum because of the number of children living there... then you'll get a postman zipping through at over 30, using it as a short-cut to get back to the sorting office - because the major road which is parallel has speed bumps!! It can get quite hairy with all the Mums cutting through with their 'Chelsea Tractors' at school chucking-out time!!
I agree with 20 mph limits during school hours, but feel that in residential areas with narrow roads it should be 20 mph all the time.
I don't agree with any reasons why 30 mph should be exceeded within towns - except on dual carriageways which are normally 40. There's a short stretch of road in Chichester by the college, which surprisingly is unlimited...but it is usually stationary during the rush-hour !!

I was driving in the dark, on the M6 Toll a while back, and was clocking a steady 85 when I shot past a Police car which was on the hard shoulder with no lights, he then put his lights on and follwed me into Norton Canes services... Gave me a quick telling off, and then spent the next 20 minutes discussing Cobra Replicas... whose make was mine? Who would I recommend? Is there one to avoid...??
So really it's down to the attitude of the individual who was speeding, and the temperament of the BiBs.
I've not got a speeding ticket yet, and I'm no angel - when I do get a ticket, I'll accept it in good grace, for all the times I didn't get a ticket.

The answer is - observe the speed limit, and follow your conscience - and don't bleat when you get busted!!
Enjoy the drive !!!

[dave328i]

covert ops said:

Without getting into the sniping over which speed is safe where etc
I'd just like to say that driving nowadays is so frustrating because of the dumbing down of the average UK driver.

People literally paralysed at the governments "safe" speed or having the message "speed kills" rammed down our throats every two seconds.

Numpty drivers who have no spacial,lane or speed awareness have killed the enjoyment of driving, by inviting the government with open arms to open a fresh revenue well (In the name of safety), so that every journey is now a chore.

I'm in my mid thirties and can clearly remember having to drive according to the conditions and judge for myself what was appropriate. (oh the good ole days!!)
Take a look at the state of the roads, excessive camera's and signage is taking away from concentrating on the job at hand, (wonder how many deaths there have been with vehicles hitting street furniture!!)

God knows what the roads will be like for future generations??
Probably as enjoyable as our great public transport service is now!

Im off for a hoon
(And shall be sticking strictly to the 30, 40, and 50 limit,)

Excited....no I didnt think so.

Edited by covert ops on Saturday 10th November 15:24

Well said! Couldn't have put it better myself. A good driver knows instinctivly what speed they can drive at, a bad driver needs to be told. What seems to be a growing trend is people driving at 10mph UNDER the limit, something which in fact you can fail your basic driving test for. This is just another example of the governments attitude, it's not bad driving that kills it's speed.

[scotia_steve74]

The one that gets me is this law change is done by Londoners who neither drive or know how to (Brown), as I disown him being Scottish.

At no time do they mention retraining - why wouldn't that be the first step? Or is it that the government has directed speeding revenue into it's main coffers and wants some money for war, speedbumps and more stupid political correctness!!!

[mondeoman]

oh FFS - there are so few plod out and about these days and you know where the cameras are that this is just a pile of poo!

Forget it and just go about your daily business with your eyes peeled - as you should do anyway.

20 in a 30, 60 in a 30, it all depends on prevailing conditions, same as 50 on a motorway or 120, any of these can be totally safe or incredibly dangerous.

Drive to the conditions and being able to stop in the space you CAN SEE TO BE CLEAR and the rest will be history.

[andyroo]

The whole 30mph speed limit in residential areas thing... yes when there is on street parking and narrow footways, no when the roads are clear, wide and with verges either side. The only dangerous thing about doing over 30mph in a 30 zone is the daft kids that play chicken when crosing the road. They think they are invincible, I'm sure of it. In America, walking into the path of an oncoming car is illegal. Why is that not the case here?

Another point; people who excessively speed are going to excessively speed no matter what. It would be interesting to run a pilot scheme where all limits are void for a week to see how people get on with judging what speed is appropriate for themselves.

Another thing: speed kills... slow speed that is. Ever been pootling down the mway at 70-75, whilst being overtaken and realising the car in front is only doing 45mph... yikes

[herewego]

andyroo said:

The whole 30mph speed limit in residential areas thing... yes when there is on street parking and narrow footways, no when the roads are clear, wide and with verges either side. The only dangerous thing about doing over 30mph in a 30 zone is the daft kids that play chicken when crosing the road. They think they are invincible, I'm sure of it. In America, walking into the path of an oncoming car is illegal. Why is that not the case here?

In my opinion, people like to feel that they live in a residential area. Speeding cars destroy that feeling. People avoid roads if the speed and noise of the traffic is excessive. It shouldn't be like that in a residential area. I think people should all drive slowly in these areas out of respect for the residents.

[RTH]

Tonight Monday Ch. 4 8.00pm 'Dispatches'

All about the pressure road users have been put under in recent years.

[fatboy18]

RTH said:

Tonight Monday Ch. 4 8.00pm 'Dispatches'

All about the pressure road users have been put under in recent years.

Im looking forward to that one