RE: Vauxhall Astra Nurburgring Edition

[ASBO]

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car. Electronics are no replacement for a good mecanical diff and IMO if you really must have a powerful front driver, then a diff is the only way to go.

Long live the RS!

oh, and I hate Vaxhauls

[thekirbyfake]

TEKNOPUG said:

Progess? I think not.

So a practical sub £20k hatchback that can lap the 'Ring as quick as the NSX and 996 is not progress?

There's no pleasing some people.

[thekirbyfake]

ASBO said:

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car.

Sorry old bean I forgot to quote the Focus lap times

Focus ST 8:51
Focus RS 9:05

[E38]

TEKNOPUG said:

237bhp and 0-60 in over 6 seconds?!?!?!

Pfft! Modern "hot hatches" - what a joke.

I also dont get why its so slow. Not exactly a hot hatch but my E38 weighs ~1.9 tonnes, and with ~290hp, contemporary road tests found a 0-60 of 6 seconds dead. Some gave it more, some less but about that. How can a Astra a whole half a tonne lighter, and with only a 50hp deficit be slower!?!

[qube_TA]

thekirbyfake said:

TEKNOPUG said:

237bhp and 0-60 in over 6 seconds?!?!?!

Pfft! Modern "hot hatches" - what a joke.

Somebody on a recent thread said something along the lines of "One day we'll live in a world where 0-60 times are considered irrelevant"

This "joke" has lapped the 'Ring in 8:35. Some other times for reference:

BMW M Roadster 8:32
Lotus Exige (190bhp) 8:32
Porsche Boxter S 8:32
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 8:34
Honda NSX 8:34
BMW 130i 8:35
BMW M3 E36 EVO 8:36
BMW Alpina B3 8:36
Jaguar XKR 8:36
Mercedes SL55 AMG 8:36
Maserati 3200GT 8:37
Porsche 996 Carrera 8:38
Honda S2000 8:39

I was thinking that, it's a very good time.

I'd have one, bet it's loads of fun.

[ASBO]

thekirbyfake said:

ASBO said:

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car.

Sorry old bean I forgot to quote the Focus lap times

Focus ST 8:51
Focus RS 9:05

Ah...

[stuartbuckell]

that's bloody quick - and I bet the real 0-60 times are probably better... a lot of manufacturers state 0-60 and quite often cars are quicker.

wouldn't mind a drive in it round the ring to be honest ...

good job vauxhall

[Ojc]

morgrp said:

I'd still take megane R26 or a Golf GTI - Its nothing personal just think the Vauxhall badge is a bit naff (I'm a brand whore!!!)- and if the Torque steer of the standard car is anything to go by then the power hike won't help matters either - seems to me to be a "jump on the band wagon" sort of car to compete with the R26 F1 and Golf 30th anniversary??? I mean come on, 20 grand for a Vauxhall Astra?

Vauxhall badge more naff than a Renault badge? Are you for real? Golf GTi is boring, bland and a bit more boring.

And it won't be 20k either, independent dealers have already put their price for the VXR Nurburgring Edition at £17,995.

As for torque steer, if you are refering to Mr Clarksons pathetic attempt at driving it on a bumpy runway without both hands on the wheel then thats pretty pathetic way of forming an opinion of one. I had a Astra VXR for a year and never did the torque steer cause me an issue, maybe you have a physique of a paper boy?

[NS24]

Video here: http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwBJ8SHB42U

[crocop]

I bet the ST500 owners feel pretty dumb, and those who were too late to order one, jumping with joy. Another 500 notes, and they have a car that will leave the ST500 behind by at least a week on the german circuit. ST resale value, after 3 years, average miles??! my guess is half of the Astra's.

[L100NYY]

ASBO said:

thekirbyfake said:

ASBO said:

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car.

Sorry old bean I forgot to quote the Focus lap times

Focus ST 8:51
Focus RS 9:05

Ah...

Doh!

[RobPhoboS]

thekirbyfake said:

TEKNOPUG said:

Progess? I think not.

So a practical sub £20k hatchback that can lap the 'Ring as quick as the NSX and 996 is not progress?

There's no pleasing some people.

Exactly.
I think it looks pretty good (I recon their red would look nicer), and yeah if you wanted a brand new 20k car its tempting for sure !

I went out in a corsa VXR last week, wow very very nice little car.

[jellison]

mate just got VXR in black with all the toys and the extra handling pack with Huge wheels - but does think ride is very hard / harsh. Not used to it yet though, think very quick but not a huge amount to go on - sure it is though.

[Neomagic]

L100NYY said:

ASBO said:

thekirbyfake said:

ASBO said:

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car.

Sorry old bean I forgot to quote the Focus lap times

Focus ST 8:51
Focus RS 9:05

Ah...

Doh!

So freakin what!!!

Just because the car has more straight line power does it actually mean its better?

I Guarantee a RS Foci would out handle it all day, and pull away off the line with much less loss of traction, and possibly hit 60 quicker in reality.

The Ring hype is absolute bull, yeah it’s a good baseline, but I personally don’t give monkeys, there are so many factors to add in e.g. pulling power above 100mph etc driver ability etc etc.

The Focus RS is a special breed of car, this is just another guff Vauxhall that can’t go round corners in standard form let alone with more horse power.

Tat is all that springs to mind.

[kambites]

TEKNOPUG said:

My point was an indictment on the ridiculous weight of so called "hot hatches" these days - stick 237bhp in a hatchback from 15 years ago and watch it wheelspin. Progess? I think not.

Edited for accuracy.

[mackie1]

Although it is a bit of a marketing gimmick these days I think a 'ring time is a pretty good yardstick of overall performance. The circumstances may differ a lot between runs so it's not perfect. Still, 30 seconds faster than the RS is pretty impressive, they've obviously done something right. Dismissing the VXR as tat is a bit much. Yes the RS is special, it was a limited run, has custom body panels, it has the iconic RS moniker and the clever diff but it's not magic. The Astra has a better power to weight ratio and can obviously put it to good use.

[thekirbyfake]

crocop said:

ST resale value, after 3 years, average miles??! my guess is half of the Astra's.

Wanna bet?

L100NYY said:

ASBO said:

thekirbyfake said:

ASBO said:

All this chat makes me realise that the Focus RS really was a bloody good car.

Sorry old bean I forgot to quote the Focus lap times

Focus ST 8:51
Focus RS 9:05

Ah...

Doh!

Those were the times quoted by TeamRS boss Jost Capito at the launch of, you guessed it, the ST. As such I'd take them with a big fat pinch of salt.

On any decent British B-road I'd expect the RS to be the quicker car.

[Mr Whippy]

These times BTG's or old SF to old SF...

So many random un-described times floating around it's no wonder quoting a time means bugger all these days.

Dave

[TEKNOPUG]

kambites said:

TEKNOPUG said:

My point was an indictment on the ridiculous weight of so called "hot hatches" these days - stick 237bhp in a hatchback from 15 years ago and watch it wheelspin. Progess? I think not.

Edited for accuracy.

Yes, if you're a complete numpty and don't fit an LSD - 200+bhp 15yr old hatch + LSD = Modern "hot hatches" look lardy, ponderous and daft. Been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt.

The fact that 237bhp is required to haul a modern hatchback around at relatively quick speeds just goes to show how ridiculously heavy modern cars have become. Manufacturers should be focusing on making cars lighter, so they require small, less powerful and more economical engines, smaller braking systems, less sophisticated and cheaper suspension parts etc. It's all just become an arms race as to who can fit the most pointless and unnecessary toys to their cars. Where is the option list for "I'd like leccy front windows and a radio please, you can dump all the rest of rubbish"?

Anyway….if you're in the market for a brand new car for £18k, then I'm sure that it makes a more interesting option than most of the competition……but have a look at a few older cars first though….£18k: Astra VXR or Escort Cosworth…..

[morgrp]

Ojc said:

morgrp said:

I'd still take megane R26 or a Golf GTI - Its nothing personal just think the Vauxhall badge is a bit naff (I'm a brand whore!!!)- and if the Torque steer of the standard car is anything to go by then the power hike won't help matters either - seems to me to be a "jump on the band wagon" sort of car to compete with the R26 F1 and Golf 30th anniversary??? I mean come on, 20 grand for a Vauxhall Astra?

Vauxhall badge more naff than a Renault badge? Are you for real? Golf GTi is boring, bland and a bit more boring.

And it won't be 20k either, independent dealers have already put their price for the VXR Nurburgring Edition at £17,995.

As for torque steer, if you are refering to Mr Clarksons pathetic attempt at driving it on a bumpy runway without both hands on the wheel then thats pretty pathetic way of forming an opinion of one. I had a Astra VXR for a year and never did the torque steer cause me an issue, maybe you have a physique of a paper boy?

I test drove the standard VXR, the GTI, the Seat Leon Cupra and the Megane F1 - I bought the Renault R26 in the end - I personally found the VXR on a wet road to lack the composure and feel of the others - yes, the R26 torque steers but it understeers less and in my opinion I thought Golf the Seat and the Renault were a nicer drive - sure the Astra wasn't bad - it just wasn't as good as the others and as for the Renault badge image, how many Vauxhalls do you know that have won the Formula 1 world championship??? In my opinion Vauxhalls are people who hack up and motorways in cheap suits and stay in travel lodges. I have to emphasise its just my opinion - it may well be a nice car - i don't know I've never driven it and to be honest I doubt I ever will but I thought the standard VXR was a bit lack lustre