RE: Million Pound Morning
Discussion
I can't believe that Haymarket, the company that own both Pistonheads and Autocar, have actually put this story on the website. This is almost a carbon copy of what Chris Harris did with the Segrave Club several weeks ago. Pistonheads is generally a very good website to visit but it's not the first time I've seen work very closely replicated between the sister publications. Pull your socks up Haymarket!!
For those who haven't seen it, check out the 'supercar shopping' video on autocarmagazine.co.uk, it's really interesting.
For those who haven't seen it, check out the 'supercar shopping' video on autocarmagazine.co.uk, it's really interesting.
mrobin, if that's your take on the virtues of the various cars then my advice is to spend your money on something else. You're wasting it playing with cars as you're obviously completely clueless when it comes to the finer points of the driving experience. "... Ferrari's are really quite horrible to drive..." It's a little embarrassing having you reveal that you're a member of P1 and then coming out with something as far from the truth as that. Wayney's going to be jumping up and down going "See, I told you so!" No, Ferraris are not 'quite horrible' to drive. In fact, if you had to pick one pure driver's car from the P1 garage, it would be hard to argue against the F430. It certainly wouldn't be any of the Astons. The F430 is an amazing drive, staggeringly good and a million times better from behind the wheel than any of the Astons. Sounds like you're picking cars with your eyes rather than the seat of your pants and probably doing more cruising than thrashing. If you're going on looks then the Astons beat everything else hands down and if all you're going to do is potter then of course the hardcore cars are not going to satisfy - that's not what they're designed for. The fact that you used up 10 days worth of precious points in the rather mediocre but extremely handsome Bentley Continental says a lot about your driving priorities.
Edited by SR225 on Tuesday 18th December 13:34
They deliver to the departures level at term 4 where I come in - usually cellphone conversation to time it so to avoid being moved on too many times.
As for the usual diatribe about my driving skills and views on Ferrari's - well that's why we all take the time to share views here isn't it!! We all have different opinions and it's fun to share them and be willing to be challenged on them. And when it becomes insult then its good to know you must have got near the truth!!
Ferrari F430 is great for near track experience, and is beautifully engineered, but (in my opinion) for real world very fast road driving then it does not work nearly as well as others that have stronger more progressive torque curves, etc. And for the long periods you inevitably get stuck in a convoy of traffic, it sounds like Fiat 500 with no oil. and the F1 gearboxes really suck compared to AM paddle shift.
And if when thinking what to take your wife on a 10 day trip through the Alps to Como and back you choose a mid engined ferrari then you don't have as many clothes as we do..... but again for you that probably says it all!!
Lighten up.
As for the usual diatribe about my driving skills and views on Ferrari's - well that's why we all take the time to share views here isn't it!! We all have different opinions and it's fun to share them and be willing to be challenged on them. And when it becomes insult then its good to know you must have got near the truth!!
Ferrari F430 is great for near track experience, and is beautifully engineered, but (in my opinion) for real world very fast road driving then it does not work nearly as well as others that have stronger more progressive torque curves, etc. And for the long periods you inevitably get stuck in a convoy of traffic, it sounds like Fiat 500 with no oil. and the F1 gearboxes really suck compared to AM paddle shift.
And if when thinking what to take your wife on a 10 day trip through the Alps to Como and back you choose a mid engined ferrari then you don't have as many clothes as we do..... but again for you that probably says it all!!
Lighten up.
mightymeatfeast said:
well, each person doesnt register the car on the V5 after a days driving so yes, its one owner!
Correct. I spoke to the manager of a major car hire firm. They do the same trick. Hundreds of people thrash these cars then get sold on as 1 owner at under 20k miles. Second hand buyers beware 
Why is it an insult or a diatribe (do you actually know what that means?) if you talk rubbish and I call you on it. Sorry, but you were nowhere near the truth. And then you go and say "... the F1 gearboxes really suck compared to AM paddle shift." Have you actually driven an F430 or are you just voicing a preconceived opinion? The Aston Martins are slightly second rate compared to the F430 in every department except styling, where they're in a class of their own (mind you, it wouldn't take much to look good sitting next to the rather ugly F430...). You must be driving with boxing gloves on.
And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
Yes thanks, I also know the difference between subjectivity and objectivity. I respect your opinion of course but having driven all the cars mentioned, as I said at the beginning, I prefer the Z06 to both AM and Ferrari. I have not said this just to annoy you but my considered opinion is that I can be faster A to B than in any of the P1 cars in the Vette; the at-the-limit exhiliration as you exit corners with uber-torque taking you to the next corner is an unbeatable experience. GT3 RS is the only thing that comes close in terms of fun.
Over and out now on this one.
Over and out now on this one.
SR225 said:
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
An opinion is a personal view or appraisal, how can it be wrong?If I had the money I'd join a club like this on the spot. It would be amazing fun to drive such an array of cars. There is simply no other way to do it unless you're wealthy enough to own a fleet of exotica. Who cares if you can't drive them to the limit? Doing so on the roads is insane anyway. Keeping my TVR for track days and joining a club like P1 would do me very nicely.
Edited by JamieT on Tuesday 18th December 16:42
SR225 said:
Why is it an insult or a diatribe (do you actually know what that means?) if you talk rubbish and I call you on it. Sorry, but you were nowhere near the truth. And then you go and say "... the F1 gearboxes really suck compared to AM paddle shift." Have you actually driven an F430 or are you just voicing a preconceived opinion? The Aston Martins are slightly second rate compared to the F430 in every department except styling, where they're in a class of their own (mind you, it wouldn't take much to look good sitting next to the rather ugly F430...). You must be driving with boxing gloves on.
And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
The thing is, having driven the car he's talking about he's entitled to give an opinion regarding it. Whether that opinion fits with your own is neither here nor there. Because you don't agree with it is, and this might come as a shock to you considering your posting manner thus far, of no consequence whatsoever.And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
I'm not a member of the P1 car club but I do own a P1.
My brother owns a baby Aston and we occasionally swap cars for the weekend. As much as I love driving it and the sound, the looks and so on I always get a bigger smile behind the wheel of my £14k Subaru, plus it is far quicker point to point...In saying that I can understand the appeal of the P1 car club although it must be hard tossing the keys back after a blast across Europe in something tasty.
My brother owns a baby Aston and we occasionally swap cars for the weekend. As much as I love driving it and the sound, the looks and so on I always get a bigger smile behind the wheel of my £14k Subaru, plus it is far quicker point to point...In saying that I can understand the appeal of the P1 car club although it must be hard tossing the keys back after a blast across Europe in something tasty.
general190 said:
andyps said:
sprinter885 said:
p.s. is Damon Hill esq still part owner of P1 ?
Not any longer - he pulled out due to management style reasons or something similar.SR225 said:
Why is it an insult or a diatribe (do you actually know what that means?) if you talk rubbish and I call you on it. Sorry, but you were nowhere near the truth. And then you go and say "... the F1 gearboxes really suck compared to AM paddle shift." Have you actually driven an F430 or are you just voicing a preconceived opinion? The Aston Martins are slightly second rate compared to the F430 in every department except styling, where they're in a class of their own (mind you, it wouldn't take much to look good sitting next to the rather ugly F430...). You must be driving with boxing gloves on.
And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
I drove P1's F430 when it was brand new. I enjoyed the experience far greater than the poorly built and twitchy 360, however I feel there is still a big difference in real world speed between the 430 and the Gallardo. You can get the power down far easier in the Gallardo and be comfortable on the limit knowing when and how the car is going to break. I had real issues with the 430 breaking away at points I felt the Gallardo would still be giving me good traction.And as for real world very fast road driving, the F430 is supreme. The only thing that comes close is the 997 - probably a little faster point to point but with not nearly as much character.
Of course, we all have opinions. But sometimes they're wrong.
I disagree with the comment that Ferrari's are horrible to drive, there not the best out there, but as previously mentioned everyone is allowed an opinion.
JamieT
"An opinion is a personal view or appraisal, how can it be wrong?"
I play guitar. If I developed an over-inflated 'opinion' of my abilities and announced that I was a better player than Steve Vai, by your reckoning I wouldn't be wrong, because it's an opinion. What if I arrived at that opinion simply because I lacked the musical sensibilities to figure out the truth? And yet I'm still not wrong. Because it's an opinion. Well here's the news. Regardless of my 'opinion' one way or the other, the simple fact is that, as a guitarist I do not, and never will have, even a fraction of the ability of Steve Vai. If, for some reason, I formed the opinion that I did, that opinion would be wrong.
ukwill
Can you point out where I said that morbin was not entitled to give an opinion? And if my disagreement is of no consequence then what is the point of debate? What is the point of anyone turning up at places like this? By the way, it's not a shock that my opinion is of little consequence. I figured that out long ago.
You're both indulging in one of the scourges of modern times: Relativism - all points of view are equally valid and all truth is relative to the individual. Despite the fact that this nonsense is now being taught in our schools and Universities it's simply the recourse of those who would rather sacrifice the truth than mildly offend anyone. It's also a very handy philosophy for those who would rather not engage in proper debate. It's elevated 'fence sitting' to a fine art.
Sorry guys, it all sounds so harsh on the written page. If we were having this conversation over a pint down the pub you'd be able to see that I have a smile on my face.
My original point was that to say that Ferraris are 'quite horrible' to drive is simply not true (some things are fact, regardless of opinions) and tells us more about the poster than the cars. Now, I'm not saying you have to like Ferraris. I've never bought a Beatles' record which I guess translates to me not liking them. That doesn't mean they're no the greatest songwriters to ever have graced this planet. I think that anyone who says that Ferraris are horrible to drive either hasn't driven one of the latest generation, is incapable of telling good from bad when it comes to cars or is simply playing the team game. You know, that "I'm a a Ferrari man...", I'm a a Porsche man..., "I'm a a Lamborghini man..." thing.
hollymere
The Gallardo is a fantastically energetic drive when you push it hard (I can vividly remember just about every bend I've been round in the Lambo), although you're always aware of its faults. More understeer than I was expecting, an E-gear that can sometimes sound like a bag of spanners, not quite as accelerative as its looks might suggest and visibility straight out of the old school! I actually prefer the way a 430 breaks away. The Gallardo sometimes feels like it's got too much grip, like you've really got to provoke it for it to go. And when it does go there's something slightly odd about the feel, which might be something to do with the four wheel drive. Still, if I nail those six balls, there's going to be one sitting on my drive...
Mattt
Is that what we're all trying to do around here, fit in? OK, come on then, group hug...
"An opinion is a personal view or appraisal, how can it be wrong?"
I play guitar. If I developed an over-inflated 'opinion' of my abilities and announced that I was a better player than Steve Vai, by your reckoning I wouldn't be wrong, because it's an opinion. What if I arrived at that opinion simply because I lacked the musical sensibilities to figure out the truth? And yet I'm still not wrong. Because it's an opinion. Well here's the news. Regardless of my 'opinion' one way or the other, the simple fact is that, as a guitarist I do not, and never will have, even a fraction of the ability of Steve Vai. If, for some reason, I formed the opinion that I did, that opinion would be wrong.
ukwill
Can you point out where I said that morbin was not entitled to give an opinion? And if my disagreement is of no consequence then what is the point of debate? What is the point of anyone turning up at places like this? By the way, it's not a shock that my opinion is of little consequence. I figured that out long ago.
You're both indulging in one of the scourges of modern times: Relativism - all points of view are equally valid and all truth is relative to the individual. Despite the fact that this nonsense is now being taught in our schools and Universities it's simply the recourse of those who would rather sacrifice the truth than mildly offend anyone. It's also a very handy philosophy for those who would rather not engage in proper debate. It's elevated 'fence sitting' to a fine art.
Sorry guys, it all sounds so harsh on the written page. If we were having this conversation over a pint down the pub you'd be able to see that I have a smile on my face.
My original point was that to say that Ferraris are 'quite horrible' to drive is simply not true (some things are fact, regardless of opinions) and tells us more about the poster than the cars. Now, I'm not saying you have to like Ferraris. I've never bought a Beatles' record which I guess translates to me not liking them. That doesn't mean they're no the greatest songwriters to ever have graced this planet. I think that anyone who says that Ferraris are horrible to drive either hasn't driven one of the latest generation, is incapable of telling good from bad when it comes to cars or is simply playing the team game. You know, that "I'm a a Ferrari man...", I'm a a Porsche man..., "I'm a a Lamborghini man..." thing.
hollymere
The Gallardo is a fantastically energetic drive when you push it hard (I can vividly remember just about every bend I've been round in the Lambo), although you're always aware of its faults. More understeer than I was expecting, an E-gear that can sometimes sound like a bag of spanners, not quite as accelerative as its looks might suggest and visibility straight out of the old school! I actually prefer the way a 430 breaks away. The Gallardo sometimes feels like it's got too much grip, like you've really got to provoke it for it to go. And when it does go there's something slightly odd about the feel, which might be something to do with the four wheel drive. Still, if I nail those six balls, there's going to be one sitting on my drive...
Mattt
Is that what we're all trying to do around here, fit in? OK, come on then, group hug...
Edited by SR225 on Wednesday 19th December 00:30
Edited by SR225 on Wednesday 19th December 00:36
Edited by SR225 on Wednesday 19th December 07:01
SR225 said:
Said some stuff...
You have fundamentally misunderstood the meaning of the word 'opinion'.An opinion is the view somebody takes about a certain issue when it is based on personal judgment. Opinion. View. Belief. Opinion is different from fact or truth. It is the ultimate irony to make the statement "Your opinion is wrong," because a subjective opinion can't be wrong. It can be disagreed with, but it can't be incorrect because it is simply one's personal view. You may point out they have misperceived some evidence that their opinion is based upon but their opinion itelf can't be wrong.
We all have different likes and dislikes - cars being a prime example. The fact that someone subjectively thinks that ferraris are crap to drive is perfectly entitled to that opinion. You may disagree with it, but it can't be 'wrong'. It's their own conclusion of what they think of the car based on their subjective evaluation. They may think the suspension too harsh, the view too restrictive, or they may find the driving position too uncomfortable - how can either of those points be wrong?
The tone of your posts, in particular calling people 'tosser', is just asking for trouble. That's not debate, it's merely insult. Try being a little more tolerant and you'll get a better response.
The other thing about opinions and sites like these, as well as when having pints in the pub, is that everyone wants the last word!
Well guess what perhaps I was a bit over the top when saying Ferrari's are horrible, but it was said in that provocative way that many use for example, when they say that Man U are crap. It obviously worked!
So I unreservedly take it all back. I quite liked the 456; hated the F355, hated the F360, quite liked the F430 when I was in a certain sort of mood, and though I really really wanted to love it, really loathed driving the 512 Scaglietti. But that's just me. Although most of my informed passengers felt pretty sick in the 512 too. And the paintwork is real Fiat quality - compare the orange peel on a new Ferrari with any other supercar (except Maserati) and you will be truly shocked. Nothing to do with driving, but if you are spending that sort of money......
I spent much of my childhood and early adulthood really wanting to have a Ferrari, and now I can, and have tried them, I, me, in my opinion, and with my own money, don't want one. The point is, that P1 saved me all that anxiety of ordering a car, waiting for it and then actually not liking it all that much. I suspect there are lots of really disappointed owners out there who can't confess to wives or friends what a duffer they bought.
So.... if you have an Impreza, Corvette, baby Aston, Jag XK, or many others or even dare I say it something like a 1963 works Mini Cooper, you are not missing a whole load in terms of pure road fun. I was even recently tempted by and Austin Princess Hearse, which with some new shocks could possibly be a laugh on the Stelviopass.(And better not tell SR225 that I own a Bentley Arnage too)
Well guess what perhaps I was a bit over the top when saying Ferrari's are horrible, but it was said in that provocative way that many use for example, when they say that Man U are crap. It obviously worked!
So I unreservedly take it all back. I quite liked the 456; hated the F355, hated the F360, quite liked the F430 when I was in a certain sort of mood, and though I really really wanted to love it, really loathed driving the 512 Scaglietti. But that's just me. Although most of my informed passengers felt pretty sick in the 512 too. And the paintwork is real Fiat quality - compare the orange peel on a new Ferrari with any other supercar (except Maserati) and you will be truly shocked. Nothing to do with driving, but if you are spending that sort of money......
I spent much of my childhood and early adulthood really wanting to have a Ferrari, and now I can, and have tried them, I, me, in my opinion, and with my own money, don't want one. The point is, that P1 saved me all that anxiety of ordering a car, waiting for it and then actually not liking it all that much. I suspect there are lots of really disappointed owners out there who can't confess to wives or friends what a duffer they bought.
So.... if you have an Impreza, Corvette, baby Aston, Jag XK, or many others or even dare I say it something like a 1963 works Mini Cooper, you are not missing a whole load in terms of pure road fun. I was even recently tempted by and Austin Princess Hearse, which with some new shocks could possibly be a laugh on the Stelviopass.(And better not tell SR225 that I own a Bentley Arnage too)
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