RE: PH Heroes: BMW E39 M5
Discussion
I love these, and I remember being so excited when they were launched. Back then 400bhp seemed like all the horsepower in the world!
They still look great today.
As for Lancia creating the first Q car with the 8.32, I thought it was Mercedes back in 1966 when they created the 300 SEL 6.3 (I would love one of those also - and I love how Mercedes have revived the 6.3 engine size).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_300SEL_...
They still look great today.
As for Lancia creating the first Q car with the 8.32, I thought it was Mercedes back in 1966 when they created the 300 SEL 6.3 (I would love one of those also - and I love how Mercedes have revived the 6.3 engine size).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_300SEL_...
What sets the E39 M5 apart, ime, is the damping.
Given the (deliberately left to crumble) diabolical state of English roads, so many performance cars, when pressed on, feel as if they are at any moment about to 'boing' you into the scenery: their suspensions being simply too uncompliant.
This is where the E39 M5 scores a bullseye. I have never driven another car with decent grunt which combines comfort and controlled speed so well whilst disguising it's undoubted mass. Of course, uprated brakes help but via some kind of dark art - lost on the current variants - the M Division wove a perfect tune for sublime progress.
Amazingly, the previous model (E34) is similarly blessed...
Given the (deliberately left to crumble) diabolical state of English roads, so many performance cars, when pressed on, feel as if they are at any moment about to 'boing' you into the scenery: their suspensions being simply too uncompliant.
This is where the E39 M5 scores a bullseye. I have never driven another car with decent grunt which combines comfort and controlled speed so well whilst disguising it's undoubted mass. Of course, uprated brakes help but via some kind of dark art - lost on the current variants - the M Division wove a perfect tune for sublime progress.
Amazingly, the previous model (E34) is similarly blessed...
CommanderJameson said:
m5basher said:
M5 Carbon Black - 51 plate mint - Best thing I ever bought, you just cannot stop grinning even after having it several years......Took me 9 months to find the right one....If it was legal I would marry it!
Running costs? Daily driver? As you can see from my car, I'm partial to black E39s...I vividly remember seeing someone gunning a black M5 a few years back, I wasn't expecting that sound to come out of a plain looking 5-series. Only time i've ever seen anyone ragging one mind.
CommanderJameson said:
And wipers. E39 wipers (Bosch) are twenty sheets a set from Halfords. 33 quid? You're havin' a giraffe!
Does the drivers side one have the spolier??I ask because on the E46 the ones from Halfords do not have the spoiler for the drivers side. Only available from BMW for allot of dosh-Can't remeber how much it was but it was about double what Halfords wanted for Bosch items...
Seems like BMW have an exclusivity deal with Bosch for this particluar wiper....???
PS: Top article and top car. Anyone seen the thread about the chap from Iceland who slapped TWIN SUPERCHARGERS onto his e39!! Will dig it up in a sec..
Apparently blue ones drift better, especially when supercharged:
This kind chap has spent a few bob on his to create something of a monster. Thread here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Dino D on Thursday 27th December 10:21
I love these cars & if my company car was to go & I only had 1 car it would be one of these. Probably this one http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/295696.htm.
H
H
eowen said:
I had a 2000 M5...
Mine used up (under warranty), Vanos (x2), new rear diff, new drivers door seal, MAF's, rear suspension bushes, and two alloys (due to pitting). All in all I reckon'd with labour, about £11k's worth.
Mine used up (under warranty), Vanos (x2), new rear diff, new drivers door seal, MAF's, rear suspension bushes, and two alloys (due to pitting). All in all I reckon'd with labour, about £11k's worth.
So what you're saying is "buy the ****ing warranty". Exactly how much would said warranty be on a 2000/01 car?!?
I can top that.
Mine had both VANOS done.
THEN...a full engine about a week before my warranty ran out due to excess oil consumption (1l every 250-300 miles!!!)
The total bill for the work came to over 15k!
Only other issues (on a 100k miler mind) have been new diff seals, new engine mounts, upgraded rear ARB mounts (std items notoriously weak), two sets of warped discs and then a sticking piston on the std calipers (fixed with AP's), handbrake cable (another repeat fix / known weakspot) and front control arm bushes.
Agree wholeheartedly with the comment on damping. I refuse to fit coilovers on mine simply because the std setup is quite literally perfect. It makes my old RS6 seem like a joke.
Mine had both VANOS done.
THEN...a full engine about a week before my warranty ran out due to excess oil consumption (1l every 250-300 miles!!!)
The total bill for the work came to over 15k!
Only other issues (on a 100k miler mind) have been new diff seals, new engine mounts, upgraded rear ARB mounts (std items notoriously weak), two sets of warped discs and then a sticking piston on the std calipers (fixed with AP's), handbrake cable (another repeat fix / known weakspot) and front control arm bushes.
Agree wholeheartedly with the comment on damping. I refuse to fit coilovers on mine simply because the std setup is quite literally perfect. It makes my old RS6 seem like a joke.
I can't say enough good things about my 2002 E39 M5. I've only been an owner since the middle of last year and while I had a couple of teething issues initially - such as the clutch completely failing after just four days of ownership - a recent road trip to Switzerland reinforced exactly why I'd bought this car. 1600 miles in three days across six countries in total comfort, including one day hammering it round the Alps keeping up with a Z4 and an M-Coupe. Simply amazing.
As for the clutch, it worked out for the best as the dealership picked up the bill. It's an AUC with warranty, although the renewal next year is expensive as I've just passed the 60k mile mark....
As for the clutch, it worked out for the best as the dealership picked up the bill. It's an AUC with warranty, although the renewal next year is expensive as I've just passed the 60k mile mark....
Couple of laps of bedford in mine. This was before getting the AP's, the standard brakes caused me lots of problems on the day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKWCYoiSZmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKWCYoiSZmo
Had one for a year, great motor, great fun, great thirst, i got rid due to the fact i was using a CSL everyday one of my worst decisions.
I loved the noise the V8 made very nascar like and the stealthy aesthetics.
I don't think any car can do what the e39 M5 does any better.
Audi RS4 , trying too hard, , new M5 too much technology, very ugly, CLs6.3, close but to exspensive.
With some mods the E39 can really go and they are just beautiful inside and out, the second best looking BMW ever made .
I loved the noise the V8 made very nascar like and the stealthy aesthetics.
I don't think any car can do what the e39 M5 does any better.
Audi RS4 , trying too hard, , new M5 too much technology, very ugly, CLs6.3, close but to exspensive.
With some mods the E39 can really go and they are just beautiful inside and out, the second best looking BMW ever made .
Use mine as my daily charge, cover 15K a year on average. Insurance is 500 GBP fully comp with only 4 yrs NCD. Just put 4 new Michelin tyres on at 760 GBP, BMW service mine (just for the stamp) as I find our local dealer has rounded up all the village idiots and employed them as mechanics. Serviced once a year and then straight to BMW specialist to fix all the stuff that dealer did not spot.
These cars are a great drive, but like anything, if you maintain it, It will run forever. The rumble at idle, the roar above 3500 rpm is just superb.
These cars are a great drive, but like anything, if you maintain it, It will run forever. The rumble at idle, the roar above 3500 rpm is just superb.
derestrictor said:
What sets the E39 M5 apart, ime, is the damping
Couldn’t agree more with that, the damping is a work of genius and so much better than the new M3’s. As a whole the car is something of a masterpiece and I still have to pinch myself to check I’m not dreaming that I really bought a 2001MY car still under approved-used warranty for £16k just over a year ago. I’ve had plenty of need of that warranty, mostly due to dealer failings (not correcting minor faults that then led to more major ones) but also due to a failed cam position sensor on one of the banks which would’ve brought me quite a painful bill. The warranty renewal for cars with over 60k on the clock is just under £1900 but my advice would be to pay it at least for the first year or two of ownership (but note that warranty renewal is not possible past 100k miles).To put into perspective how good this car is, I’m a current member of Ecurie25 and formerly of P1, and one of my favourite games is to take out club cars and see how I feel about getting back into the M5. A 997 C2 is possibly a better all-round drivers’ car – it beats the M5 by a slender margin on build quality and by a country mile on steering feel – but factor in the rear seats and Q-car looks and I still favour the M5. Getting out of Ecurie’s 997 GT3 after 1000 miles in North Wales I was hugely relieved to go for a run in the BM and realise I didn’t need to convince my wife that we needed a remortgage. While the GT3 is (a little) faster and has amazing body control on choppy surfaces for something so tautly sprung, it somehow doesn’t have the kind of character that the M5 has in bucketloads thanks to its old-school engine note and handling balance. The grin factor is simply bigger. (And if you really want to get grinning, head to an airfield and it will go sideways forever!)
In some ways the cars that most resemble the M5 are the big GT’s such as the 550M or the V12 Astons. Big, express-train-style power delivery that impresses most on fast, sweeping A-roads, but for a fraction of the money and without the “arrest me” profile.
The most interesting comparison was against the new M3. The performance of the two cars is nearly identical, though perhaps the M5’s wider torque spread gives it an edge in road driving. The noise of the new engine at top end is really something though! However, unfortunately BMW appear to have forgotten what they once knew about ride/handling compromises because the M3 is horribly fidgety compared the M5 and is prone to nasty high-speed vertical heave movements on roughish A/B-roads that the M5 simply soaks up. The M3 can’t keep all its wheels on the ground in these circumstances, it’s really pretty bad, and that’s on the softest of the three damper settings; it only gets worse from there. The steering is a touch more feelsome than the M5’s, but it’s marginal. On balance, the M5 is head and shoulders the better car, IMO.
Finally, a few bits of hopefully-useful info for anyone contemplating purchasing one of these beauties:
1. Find a warranted car unless you can comfortably swallow a big (e.g., £5k) bill should the need arise. If you really can’t afford to spend a couple of grand on the warranty, think carefully about taking on an E39 M5.
2. VERY IMPORTANTLY it is ONLY possible to renew a running warranty on a used M-car. Once the warranty has lapsed, even by a day, BMW will not sell you a warranty renewal. The only way the car can go under warranty again is if a main dealer buys and resells it. Be very careful to check the paperwork on the day of purchase to make sure that the “warranted” car really still is. Obviously many owners wait until near the end of the warranty period before putting cars up for sale, which can give the buyer some serious bargaining power if it’s literally just a few days away from lapsing.
3. To keep the warranty current you will need to go to a main dealer for service (at £120+ ph labour rates) but for any other work I would recommend a decent specialist (I have used Munich Legends on a couple of occasions and they seem very good).
4. Oil use is a common issue. Mine does a litre in 500-600 miles (but maybe I should see about that engine swap under warranty, now I’ve read edcase’s post)
5. There were engine changes for the 2001 model year that are supposed to mitigate the VANOS failure issues, so best to stick to those cars. Some say to avoid cars that have then had VANOS replacements, but I’m not sure I’d worry too much about that. You also get a better interior, better headlights and a few other niceties with the 2001MY cars.
6. The upgrade audio system is well worth it, but does cost you a bit of height in the boot
7. The car makes a great daily driver but fuel consumption around town is terrible (I see 10-11mpg on a tank if I don’t leave London) and it’s hard to keep the car pristine. The alloys are distressingly easy to damage on the kerb.
8. I found insurance to be quite reasonable, even parked on the street in Bermondsey (under £800 quid, and I’m 41 and have 6 points)
9. The AP’s are good, but not essential for road driving unless you’re a person who’s very hard on the brakes, but they do improve the rather soft-feeling pedal.
10. Silverstone is basically the same colour that most/all 70’s 3.0l CSLs were made in, so it’s a highly cred colour for an M-car, it’s not just some girly metallic sky-blue as some people might have you believe
Anyway, hope that helps, and encourages somebody to seek out and enjoy one of these superb vehicles.
Mike
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