"Flappy paddle" Gearboxes are crap? I think not......
Discussion
My fury has flappy-paddle shift, it's a direct link (due to regulations) to the shift lever on the fireblade gearox, I love it, mechanical and tactile, clutchless upshifts once you're past 3rd and you still get to heel-n-toe on the way down.
Though in a regular car, I think I'd prefer a regular H-Gate box. I loved driving the exige when I took my test, but I think an automatic clutch type DSG box would ruin it.
Though in a regular car, I think I'd prefer a regular H-Gate box. I loved driving the exige when I took my test, but I think an automatic clutch type DSG box would ruin it.
Twincam16 said:
stephen300o said:
I think it's just the old dears that have spent a life time perfecting heel'n'toe they don't want to face that its now redundant.
I take a different view. What does it matter, out on the road, that your gearchange is a few miliseconds quicker than it would be if you changed it with the old clutch-down-move-lever-match-revs-accelerate routine. Are you honestly going to be there with a stopwatch timing it every time you go for a run down your favourite B-road?Yes, it might be quicker, but getting it just right is more satisfying and involving, in the same way that a microwave ready-meal Sunday roast contains all the same ingrediants as the one you would spend hours cooking and taking pride in, but is much faster.
I like changing gear the old fashioned way, it's just more satisfying.
I drove a bloody ford fezza!Polarbert said:
Twincam16 said:
stephen300o said:
I think it's just the old dears that have spent a life time perfecting heel'n'toe they don't want to face that its now redundant.
I take a different view. What does it matter, out on the road, that your gearchange is a few miliseconds quicker than it would be if you changed it with the old clutch-down-move-lever-match-revs-accelerate routine. Are you honestly going to be there with a stopwatch timing it every time you go for a run down your favourite B-road?Yes, it might be quicker, but getting it just right is more satisfying and involving, in the same way that a microwave ready-meal Sunday roast contains all the same ingrediants as the one you would spend hours cooking and taking pride in, but is much faster.
I like changing gear the old fashioned way, it's just more satisfying.
BagOfOldRats said:
Polarbert said:
Twincam16 said:
stephen300o said:
I think it's just the old dears that have spent a life time perfecting heel'n'toe they don't want to face that its now redundant.
I take a different view. What does it matter, out on the road, that your gearchange is a few miliseconds quicker than it would be if you changed it with the old clutch-down-move-lever-match-revs-accelerate routine. Are you honestly going to be there with a stopwatch timing it every time you go for a run down your favourite B-road?Yes, it might be quicker, but getting it just right is more satisfying and involving, in the same way that a microwave ready-meal Sunday roast contains all the same ingrediants as the one you would spend hours cooking and taking pride in, but is much faster.
I like changing gear the old fashioned way, it's just more satisfying.
In the past, I'd always criticised flappy-paddle style gearboxes however it was because I was (wrongly) basing my opinion on my only experiences with an auto box with manual select facility (eg BMW steptronic).
Having driven a few cars with decent versions of the system (the new Jag XKR primarily), I can actually, genuinely see the appeal.
But personally speaking, think I'd rather have a manual.
Having driven a few cars with decent versions of the system (the new Jag XKR primarily), I can actually, genuinely see the appeal.
But personally speaking, think I'd rather have a manual.
Polarbert said:
DavidUK said:
Polarbert said:
I wouldn't say they are 'crap' but they are bit too artificial. There is nothing like changing gear your self with the clutch and gearstick. Its all part of driving.
I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.
Do you start your engine with a key or a crank handle?I'd never take a flappy paddle over a manual on something even slightly sporting. I think it would completely ruin the experience for me.
monthefish said:
In the past, I'd always criticised flappy-paddle style gearboxes however it was because I was (wrongly) basing my opinion on my only experiences with an auto box with manual select facility (eg BMW steptronic).
Having driven a few cars with decent versions of the system (the new Jag XKR primarily), I can actually, genuinely see the appeal.
But personally speaking, think I'd rather have a manual.
Neither of those boxes are what i'd consider flappy paddle boxes. Otherwise you could include almost all Mercs, BMW and Audi Autos.Having driven a few cars with decent versions of the system (the new Jag XKR primarily), I can actually, genuinely see the appeal.
But personally speaking, think I'd rather have a manual.
Flappy paddle boxes (IMHO at least) are manual boxes with automatic clutches, such as the SMG, Ferrari and DSG.
I've driven DSG and its a fantastic system, with totally seamless changes, but to be honest, there was no mechanical thump, or feel at all when it changed gear, and for me that somehow made the experience rather disapointing
Twincam16 said:
What does it matter, out on the road, that your gearchange is a few miliseconds quicker than it would be if you changed it with the old clutch-down-move-lever-match-revs-accelerate routine.
Quickness isn't the main reason for proper flappy paddle changes, the difference is tiny anyway.The main reason, but still not that useful on the road unless you are at 11/10th, is that you can change gear mid corner and not upset the balance of the car.
The flappy pads on my Smart are fairly pointless, the ones on a BEC doing flatshifts are lovely. So things do vary.
Vixpy1 said:
Neither of those boxes are what i'd consider flappy paddle boxes. Otherwise you could include almost all Mercs, BMW and Audi Autos.
Flappy paddle boxes (IMHO at least) are manual boxes with automatic clutches, such as the SMG, Ferrari and DSG.
I've driven DSG and its a fantastic system, with totally seamless changes, but to be honest, there was no mechanical thump, or feel at all when it changed gear, and for me that somehow made the experience rather disapointing
well made point...Flappy paddle boxes (IMHO at least) are manual boxes with automatic clutches, such as the SMG, Ferrari and DSG.
I've driven DSG and its a fantastic system, with totally seamless changes, but to be honest, there was no mechanical thump, or feel at all when it changed gear, and for me that somehow made the experience rather disapointing
to expand on that somewhat, you need to sperate out the different typres of box:
1) conventional auto with 'buttons' to select changes (as in Merc/Jag/Audi-non DSG)
2) manual box with auto-clutch and selectors - as in SMG etc.
3) dual clutch setups - as in Audi-DSG
each has it's good and bad points, but all could be diffined as 'flappy paddle'
stephen300o said:
BagOfOldRats said:
Polarbert said:
Twincam16 said:
stephen300o said:
I think it's just the old dears that have spent a life time perfecting heel'n'toe they don't want to face that its now redundant.
I take a different view. What does it matter, out on the road, that your gearchange is a few miliseconds quicker than it would be if you changed it with the old clutch-down-move-lever-match-revs-accelerate routine. Are you honestly going to be there with a stopwatch timing it every time you go for a run down your favourite B-road?Yes, it might be quicker, but getting it just right is more satisfying and involving, in the same way that a microwave ready-meal Sunday roast contains all the same ingrediants as the one you would spend hours cooking and taking pride in, but is much faster.
I like changing gear the old fashioned way, it's just more satisfying.
I prefer stick 'n' clutch.
BUT - I wouldn't mind converting to sequential with a stickshift, I like the idea of that - just not on the steering column.
The idea of a paddleshift gearbox came from motor racing, where the point of the excercise is to complete a specified distance as quickly as possible or in a specified time cover as much distance as possible. In this application a paddle shoft 'box makes sense because 10ths of seconds count and these gearboxes over the course of a race can save quite a number of seconds.
Now back in the real world where I dont really care whether I get home 4/10ths of a second faster and where its all about driving pleasure (or it is for me anyway) I'd rather have the pleasure of changing gear myself and taking an extra 2/10ths of a second to do it, than to suggest to a computer that I'd like it to change gear for me and for it to tell me no because it doesnt think its the right thing to do. I bought the car I own it I should have the right to say when it changes gear - I'm in charge.
In short paddle shift boxes tend to take the fun out of driving and rarely make sense in the real world.
Now back in the real world where I dont really care whether I get home 4/10ths of a second faster and where its all about driving pleasure (or it is for me anyway) I'd rather have the pleasure of changing gear myself and taking an extra 2/10ths of a second to do it, than to suggest to a computer that I'd like it to change gear for me and for it to tell me no because it doesnt think its the right thing to do. I bought the car I own it I should have the right to say when it changes gear - I'm in charge.
In short paddle shift boxes tend to take the fun out of driving and rarely make sense in the real world.
hey here's a CRAZY idea that could solve all the problems of people (like myself) who appericate the speed and simplicity of paddle shift gearboxes when on the limit but just love the joy of driving manually when the mood takes them.
its a system used on some rally cars, its basically a paddle shift but where you still have the clutch and the gearstick, only u dont use them. when you shift on the paddles the gearstick physically moves into gear and the clutch does its thing too. the reason its on rally cars is that if the paddle shifter stops working for some reason then you just grab the gear stick and put your foot back on the clutch and problem solved!!!
a road version of this with 2 modes could be good....
its a system used on some rally cars, its basically a paddle shift but where you still have the clutch and the gearstick, only u dont use them. when you shift on the paddles the gearstick physically moves into gear and the clutch does its thing too. the reason its on rally cars is that if the paddle shifter stops working for some reason then you just grab the gear stick and put your foot back on the clutch and problem solved!!!
a road version of this with 2 modes could be good....
Maybe it will all be academic in a few years - electric motors won't need a gearchange at all. A multi-ratio transmission is really just trying to make the best of the bad lot that is an internal combustion engine's power delivery.
For what it is worth though, I have quite liked the flappy paddles that I have tried.
For what it is worth though, I have quite liked the flappy paddles that I have tried.
I'll have a manual gearbox every time please - DSG wasn't for me at all, I thought it was ponderous and slow-witted in "auto" mode and rather soulless (albeit quite quick) in "manual." If it's the right thing for you it's the right thing for you, but IMO it's crazy to spend £1600 on an option that, for me, makes the car less fun to drive.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff