RE: PH Heroes: Lotus Carlton

[Utopia]

Quinny said:

This thread is now 22 pages long

M5 thread is about 6 Nuff said

Your right... just checked it out myself! http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=1739...
The rating was 7.5 out of 10.

Now after having has an M5, the review is certainly right about the following:

The creation of the Q-car is often a tradition with which Lancia is credited – when it put a Ferrari V8 in a Thema. The concept of the super-saloon really took off in the 1990s, with the awesome 377bhp Lotus Carlton.

The 0-60 dash is quoted at anywhere between 4.8 and 5.2 seconds, and it certainly feels closer to the faster time.

DSC is intrusive in the wet

if things go wrong, they are expensive (No surprise really as the bills for tyres and brakes were astonishing expensive!)

Finally, the wolf in sheep’s clothing effect can be annoying. If you like to make a statement by the car you drive, and have schoolboys point and stare at it, the M5 isn’t the car for you.

My view - as a cruiser, going along a Motorway, its comfy, roomy and great. But its not a LC. And to be honest I do see alot of M5's now a days. Same as the M3, and almost every other Jap and Euro fast car around today.

Which again, makes the LC Iconic

[B'stard Child]

Quinny said:

This thread is now 22 pages long

M5 thread is about 6

Nuff said

Oh I don't know Quinney - no one is claiming in that thread that the Lotus Carlton is a better car or more Iconic than the E39 M5

I think if the posts discussing the E39 M5 were removed from this thread it would run to just 3 pages so therefore the E39 M5 is twice as good and twice as Iconic as the Lotus Carlton because of the mumber of posts

I honestly get where Damwi is coming from - I've got to admit I was struggling up till then but I've seen the light

[Utopia]

Correct my guys, but the LC 6th gear is geared to do 286mph if it had power right?
But its aim was to be more relaxing to drive, something like 1000rpm at 60mph. Isnt this near tickover speed?

Also, there is a LC owner who owns a "white" Lotus Carlton and I think it was used for American Racing. I have no idea if 6th is ever used, but maybe a LC guru can confirm this or deny it. I think his name was Jason or Joe Elliss?

[Utopia]

damiwi said:

The choice of sixth gear ratio was probably the biggest criticism of the car.

It wouldn't pull in sixth gear, it was more like an economy over drive gear.

I wish for once somebody would just agree with me because any LC enthusiast knows this is a fact.

6th gear at a low rev sounds great to me Not sure as I would see that as a criticism - maybe its cause the Gearbox was the only one capable of the power and torque of the beast at the time.

So I do AGREE with you

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

Correct my guys, but the LC 6th gear is geared to do 286mph if it had power right?
But its aim was to be more relaxing to drive, something like 1000rpm at 60mph. Isnt this near tickover speed?

Yep

Utopia said:

Also, there is a LC owner who owns a "white" Lotus Carlton and I think it was used for American Racing. I have no idea if 6th is ever used, but maybe a LC guru can confirm this or deny it. I think his name was Jason or Joe Elliss?

Joe Ellis BTB Exhausts - Nevada State Classic Road race Lotus Carlton in White

90 (ish) miles 33 mins

This car does not need a ring sticker

[Utopia]

B'stard Child said:

damiwi said:

It's nothing to do with pulling to the limiter.

The choice of sixth gear ratio was probably the biggest criticism of the car.

It wouldn't pull in sixth gear, it was more like an economy over drive gear.

I wish for once somebody would just agree with me because any LC enthusiast knows this is a fact.

If it makes you happy I'll agree with you in part because I'd like this thread back on track

It will pull 6th gear from 70 mph on 98 Ron fuel and 80 mph on 95 Ron

And it will accelerate in that gear up to around 160mph

It will hold it's speed in 6th up to it's max around 180 but you have to get there first in 5th

However it is an overdrive gear with a very tall ratio but as a result the car is much quieter and more economical at speed - there you were right

damiwi said:

The E39 M5 pulls its top speed in sixth gear.
The E39 M5 pulls strongly in sixth gear because it has bags of low down torque, you need to remember that the same peak torque of the E34 M5 is reached at 1500 rpm in the E39, it's a far more powerful engine in all respects.

It has a different gearbox and ratios - in 1990 most cars had 5 gears and some actually had to make do with just four - imagine that!!!

Cheers... I had made a post about this 6th gear & thank you for this.... wow!! Sounds TOO good to be true! I heard the LC did around 187mph as well. Although 6th is geared for 284mph or something, clearly the gear was far too long for the engine.

[Utopia]

[quote=B'stard Child Joe Ellis BTB Exhausts - Nevada State Classic Road race Lotus Carlton in White

90 (ish) miles 33 mins

This car does not need a ring sticker



[/quote]

Golly, so whats the top speed he can do in this beast if its average is 164mph?

[B'stard Child]

Joe Ellis Lotus Carlton some pics I took at a track day last year

Corporate sponsorship



Whole car



Like anyone could read it on track

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

Golly, so whats the top speed he can do in this beast if its average is 164mph?

It was flat out most of the way from a standing start but shock of shocks there were some corners and also some nasty humps in the road that required lifting off the gas

To me what Joe did in shiping his car from the UK to the USA so he could show the Yanks what the UK could do with a car with just 3.6 Litres was wonderfull - inspirational and makes me damn proud to know him

He did the event twice from memory - first time I think he went over the target for his class and was disqualified

I've been on track in this car as a passenger and I can only say that for once in my life I was very very quiet - 8 x 3.5 mile laps of petrol head heaven.

PS he's not to shabby behind the wheel as well as being a nice fella

Std LC on track being passed by Joe Ellis in Agamemnon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u2XaFG00Gw

Edited by B'stard Child on Friday 8th February 18:21

[Utopia]

Sounds great!! Glad to see another LC owner doing the unusual.
Was there any other cars there... ahem! German cars perhaps

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

Sounds great!! Glad to see another LC owner doing the unusual.
Was there any other cars there... ahem! German cars perhaps

Several I think but that would be taking this thread off topic so lets just chat about the LC

[Utopia]

I'll agree to that mate

Its funny, people at my POW discussed 5th gear and the Lotus Carlton.... amazing how it seems to have caused a big attraction. Thats seems to be the thing about the car.

Tell me, do you know if these cars or any Lotus Carlton owners did mods to make it go faster, more powerful to make any better use of 6th?

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

I'll agree to that mate

Its funny, people at my POW discussed 5th gear and the Lotus Carlton.... amazing how it seems to have caused a big attraction. Thats seems to be the thing about the car.

I can understand that - you've summarised many of the reasons why in posts earlier on here but for me it was a huge two fingers up to "limiting cars to 155mph" and about making a big bruiser of a saloon car that I've always compared to an intercontinental ballistic missile cos that's exactly what it is and what it does so well - I've had some very good trips in mine I left Norfolk at 1030pm caught a 0100 hrs ferry from Dover to Calais and drove through France and Switzerland avoiding paege was still in Milan having a pleasant and enjoyable dinner the following evening.

the journey was effortless and very enjoyable and a memory that will always stay with me

Utopia said:

Tell me, do you know if these cars or any Lotus Carlton owners did mods to make it go faster, more powerful to make any better use of 6th?

A few but to be honest Lotus had the bhp/torque pretty much spot on for reliability - increasing bhp on any car is a whole heap of pain and not inconsiderable expenditure - but I know a few that have gone down that route.....

Bottom line is 6th will always be an overdrive unless you change the ratio you would need 1000 bhp plus to change it and aerodynamics will be the limit to top speed it's not exactly a slippery shape

I'll stick a few pics up of one which is knocking on the door of 1000 bhp if you are interested

[B'stard Child]

JE's LC from trackside

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axI-xPRs6Po&fea...

Features quite a bit mainly cos it comes round quite often

You will see my Anthracite Monza GSE a few times too as well as a lot of other ABS club cars

[Utopia]

Yes if you have one with 1000bhp, that would be cool !!

Thanks
R.

[Shropshiremike]

Utopia said:

damiwi said:

The choice of sixth gear ratio was probably the biggest criticism of the car.

It wouldn't pull in sixth gear, it was more like an economy over drive gear.

I wish for once somebody would just agree with me because any LC enthusiast knows this is a fact.

6th gear at a low rev sounds great to me Not sure as I would see that as a criticism - maybe its cause the Gearbox was the only one capable of the power and torque of the beast at the time.

So I do AGREE with you

Wasn't the reason it was "like an economy over drive gear" because it actually was an economy over drive gear? i.e that box was meant for the Corvette which had to bypass the gas guzzler tax of the time in the US by having a very long top gear to reduce cruising emissions ( at whatever speed it had to pass the test ).

I thought the only reason it was used by Lotus/Vauxhall in the Carlton was because it was the only gearbox in the GM parts bin capable of handling the torque?

[Utopia]

Correct...
Thats why in my post I mentioned....

maybe its cause the Gearbox was the only one capable of the power and torque of the beast at the time

ZR1 from a corvette
Thanks

[B'stard Child]

Shropshiremike said:

Wasn't the reason it was "like an economy over drive gear" because it actually was an economy over drive gear? i.e that box was meant for the Corvette which had to bypass the gas guzzler tax of the time in the US by having a very long top gear to reduce cruising emissions ( at whatever speed it had to pass the test ).

I thought the only reason it was used by Lotus/Vauxhall in the Carlton was because it was the only gearbox in the GM parts bin capable of handling the torque?

10/10 - the LC was a parts bin special - Lotus sourced whatever they could from the GM parts bin to create a reliable car

The Diff is from a Holden and they (Lotus) were worried about it's ability to withstand high speeds for long periods of time - they stopped worrying when they realised that if you accelerated from a standstill and kept your foot to the floor you would be out of fuel in just over 80 miles

They stopped worrying then

JE's car has a huge 110 litre fuel cell to cope with the thirst and a diff cooler and pump arrangement (just in case like you do)

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

Yes if you have one with 1000bhp, that would be cool !!

Thanks
R.

Not in the UK but

http://www.lotusomega.se/

Have a dig around second build now first one was only 600 bhp and stefans going for 1000 bhp



Mad as a box of frogs but he's modified 6th to bring the theretical top speed down to 223mph

[Utopia]

Now... THATS a great looking car!! Wheels certainly do the business!!