RE: PH Heroes: Lotus Carlton

[Shropshiremike]

B'stard Child said:

Holiday Snap

On a European tour (taken in the hills around Umbria in Italy)



Yes you can get over 30 mpg out of a 3.6 Litre twin turbo and over 500 miles out of a tank full of fuel!!!

Now that would be just the perfect car holiday for me - driving down to Italy over the Alps in a Lotus Carlton

Sadly, like Howitzer commented, unless the lottery comes up trumps I'll have to dream for the meantime........

[wobert]

Utopia said:

Correct...
Thats why in my post I mentioned....

maybe its cause the Gearbox was the only one capable of the power and torque of the beast at the time

ZR1 from a corvette
Thanks

The key word missing is "manual"......GM had plenty of auto 'boxes that could cope with the torque, but only the ZR1 'box met the torque requirement, and was a manual so in it went.

THe issue with top gear, as others have alluded, is it was primarily a heavy overdrive ratio, to meet economy & drive-by noise stipulations.

To re-engineer the gearbox to reduce the level of overdirve would have meant bespoke parts for a production run of circa 1k units, which would have made it very uneconomic, hence it was left as is.

Got to admit those pics make my hair stand on end......having worked at the factory at the time, and seen cars on a regualr basis trundling around the site, it really hits home how few you see nowadays.

I remember by boss at the time, commenting that he could travel from Hethel to the Midlands in a LC (development car) and drive at a steady 90 all the way totally unhindered. doing the same trip in an Esprit at a steadsy 70mph meant a Police escort most of way!

[Shropshiremike]

NotNormal said:

Here's a copy of the performance figs recorded by Performance Car back when the car was released

- http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Mikeshrops/...

Still pretty impressive when you consider thats with 2 people and a full 75litre tank of juice

The whole Performance Car article is here if you want to read more than just the performance figures

I might dig out the CAR and Fast Lane ones as well later

Edited by Shropshiremike on Sunday 10th February 09:55

[Yugguy]

Blah, blah, faster, not as fast, blah, blah, handling, blah blah.

The quote below is the most sensible and accurate post in this entire thread.

10 Pence Short said:

If you walked into a crowded 3rd floor office and said you'd just parked a brand spanking new M5 up, right outside the door, on a gleaming day, you'd be lucky if anyone even looked up.

If you walked into a crowded 3rd floor office and said you'd just parked a Lotus Carlton up, at the far end of the car park, and it was pissing down, almost every male in the building would make an effort to have a look.

That's what being an icon is all about.

[damiwi]

Shropshiremike said:

NotNormal said:

Here's a copy of the performance figs recorded by Performance Car back when the car was released

- http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Mikeshrops/...

Still pretty impressive when you consider thats with 2 people and a full 75litre tank of juice

The whole Performance Car article is here if you want to read more than just the performance figures

I might dig out the CAR and Fast Lane ones as well later

Those are the sort of performance figures that I remember reading about. Sixth gear useless like I stated.

Out of interest has anyone tested the accuracy of the Speedo on a Lotus Carlton with a GPS, I'd estimate it would have at least 8% error after 100mph. Which is why you might see 177 mph on the clock but the car is actually only doing around 163 mph.

If you doubt this most cars have a surprising degree of speedo error. My M3 was reading 60mph when it was doing 56mph on the GPS, I double checked this by following Lorries which are restricted to 56mph. An early Ford Mondeo I recently tested was doing 70 MPH on the GPS but reading 78mph on the speedo, this was confirmed by two GPS units.

With my Garmin there is about a second delay on the reading so I hold the car at 70mph for a few seconds until the GPS holds steady.

Maybe this would be a good idea for a thread.

Edited by damiwi on Saturday 9th February 18:54

[Shropshiremike]

damiwi said:

NotNormal said:

Here's a copy of the performance figs recorded by Performance Car back when the car was released

- http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Mikeshrops/...

Still pretty impressive when you consider thats with 2 people and a full 75litre tank of juice

Those are the sort of performance figures that I remember reading about. Sixth gear useless like I stated.

Good for motorway cruising though

[B'stard Child]

damiwi said:

Out of interest has anyone tested the accuracy of the Speedo on a Lotus Carlton with a GPS, I'd estimate it would have at least 8% error after 100mph. Which is why you might see 177 mph on the clock but the car is actually only doing around 163 mph.

Last time I checked it it was 2mph out at 100 mph

After that I don't know as I'm more interested in the road ahead

[damiwi]

B'stard Child said:

damiwi said:

Out of interest has anyone tested the accuracy of the Speedo on a Lotus Carlton with a GPS, I'd estimate it would have at least 8% error after 100mph. Which is why you might see 177 mph on the clock but the car is actually only doing around 163 mph.

Last time I checked it it was 2mph out at 100 mph

After that I don't know as I'm more interested in the road ahead

Only 2mph at 100mph that's really impressive.

I'm assuming the speedo runs off a cable, does the needle stay dead steady or wander a little.

I used to have a magazine years ago that featured the Lotus Cortina, Sunbeam Lotus and the Carlton but I can't find it, will have to keep searching.

Edited by damiwi on Saturday 9th February 20:06

[damiwi]

Shropshiremike said:

damiwi said:

NotNormal said:

Here's a copy of the performance figs recorded by Performance Car back when the car was released

- http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Mikeshrops/...

Still pretty impressive when you consider thats with 2 people and a full 75litre tank of juice

Those are the sort of performance figures that I remember reading about. Sixth gear useless like I stated.

Good for motorway cruising though

I read somewhere that the car actually became less economical because you had to use more throttle to keep the car at motorway speeds. The gearing really was that bad.

[Utopia]

Could someone tell me if the Lotus Carlton is still the fastest production saloon in the world? It was given this title, being that the car was a "standard" saloon, capable of 177mph (ie: not modified in any way once it left the dealership).

Was unsure if this record still stood today, or over thrown by another saloon.

Also, I quite like the 6th gear, based on what I was reading today. Ok, its not going to perform (that well), but the idea of crusing at a low revs and a high speed sounds pretty good.

[damiwi]

Utopia said:

Could someone tell me if the Lotus Carlton is still the fastest production saloon in the world? It was given this title, being that the car was a "standard" saloon, capable of 177mph (ie: not modified in any way once it left the dealership).

Was unsure if this record still stood today, or over thrown by another saloon.

Also, I quite like the 6th gear, based on what I was reading today. Ok, its not going to perform (that well), but the idea of crusing at a low revs and a high speed sounds pretty good.

Leaving aside the 155MPH limiters which don't give a true picture and often don't actually come into play until well after 155mph.

BMW M5 E60 can do over 200MPH
BMW M5 E39 can do over 180MPH
Audi RS6 will also do 180MPH+
New Audi RS6 will certainly do over 200MPH.
Various Mercs will do 180 MPH

There are rumours that the 155mph speed limiters on a lot of these cars only operate when in top gear and therefore 5th gear will exceed 155mph. An M3 is geared to do 170MPH+ in 5th.

It depends also which Top Speed you believe for the Carlton.

163MPH
168 MPH
173MPH
177MPH
178MPH
180MPH
194.5 MPH http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs1990/opel_lotus_o...

I've seen all these claimed.

The new Audi RS6 will probably claim the title soon.

Edited by damiwi on Saturday 9th February 20:40

[Transmitter Man]

Ian,

If the box was taken from the Corvette at the time surely one could find a different gear set from one of the US trans specialists to bring that 6th cog into better service like Mr Sweden?

There again, I do know a gear cutter.

What part of the UK does your competition LC man live as it would be great to see him among some exotica at a Peter Saywell sponsored private trackday at Goodwood later in the year.

I'm sure his LC would whip the a$$ off of some of the cars.

Phil
79 De Tomaso Longchamp GTS

[Utopia]

The New Audi is only available in estate form , as I understood it (Being the RS6 Avant and available in limited numbers 300 or so).

Cars limited to 155mph would not make the fastest saloon record. But as mentioned, being that the lotus was the standard saloon with its claimed top speed of 176mph (quoted from Vauxhall), does it still stand. Obviously de-restricted cars may well do more, but remember they are restricted for various reasons (ie: Ensure tyres, suspension, brakes, chassis can cope with this speed). Anything over could mean the car may not stop/Handle correctly at excessive speeds. Where the LC was designed for 176mph+ (And yes some stating alot faster than this too).

The New RS6 claims it was 175mph, but according to the site, its being limited to 155mph. There was an RS6+ was 174mph if I recall correctly. Again, wasnt the RS6+ estate form. If you de-restrict a car, its being modified from standard, thus would not be classed as "fastest standard saloon".

Maybe a LC guru can clarify this.... its just curiosity really. According to the YouTube vid of Top Gear with Tiff, he stated "10 years on, its still the fastest standard saloon in the world". Thats assuming this vid was taken around 2000

Thanks

Edited by Utopia on Saturday 9th February 21:02

[Utopia]

BTW, did the LC owner who has the car in the garage managed to find any good newer pics of their car please?

[damiwi]

Utopia said:

The New Audi is only available in estate form , as I understood it (Being the RS6 Avant and available in limited numbers 300 or so).

Cars limited to 155mph would not make the fastest saloon record. But as mentioned, being that the lotus was the standard saloon with its claimed top speed of 176mph (quoted from Vauxhall), does it still stand. Obviously de-restricted cars may well do more, but remember they are restricted for various reasons (ie: Ensure tyres, suspension, brakes, chassis can cope with this speed). Anything over could mean the car may not stop/Handle correctly at excessive speeds. Where the LC was designed for 176mph+ (And yes some stating alot faster than this too).

The New RS6 claims it was 175mph, but according to the site, its being limited to 155mph. There was an RS6+ was 174mph if I recall correctly. Again, wasnt the RS6+ estate form. If you de-restrict a car, its being modified from standard, thus would not be classed as "fastest standard saloon".

Maybe a LC guru can clarify this.... its just curiosity really. According to the YouTube vid of Top Gear with Tiff, he stated "10 years on, its still the fastest standard saloon in the world". Thats assuming this vid was taken around 2000

Thanks

Edited by Utopia on Saturday 9th February 21:02

The restriction was purely an agreement made between certain manufacturers, the cars were capable of much higher speeds without further modification, to suggest otherwise would be a bit ridiculous considering the advancement in technology. My M5 had Dunlop 8080 SP's which were a z rated tyre. The cars were not restricted because it was unsafe for them to be driven faster than 155mph.

BMW have made claim to building the World's Fastest Saloon car with both the E39 and E60 M5 models, which both supercede the LC and then I think Audi boasted that the 450BHP RS6 was fastest... then the E60 M5 came out etc etc.

Basically the Lotus Carlton isn't the World's Fastest standard Saloon car anymore.

Contrary to earlier opinion, it's fairly common for people to have the limiter removed... which isn't to say the limit is really removed they just increase the top speed in the software to something like 250mph.

And if these manufacturers did decide to have a race to the max against the Lotus Carlton, I'm pretty sure the limiter would be altered to make sure the LC was beaten.

The LC was a fast car in its day but I'm betting a modern fast hot hatch is probably more stable and feels safer at 155mph, although that's another argument for another thread no doubt.

[veyron253]

This was a real groundbreaker in the eighties.
It was nearly impossible to get insured in one.
I think most have now been either written off or stolen and butchered for parts.

[Shropshiremike]

Shropshiremike said:

NotNormal said:

Here's a copy of the performance figs recorded by Performance Car back when the car was released

- http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/Mikeshrops/...

Still pretty impressive when you consider thats with 2 people and a full 75litre tank of juice

The whole Performance Car article is here if you want to read more than just the performance figures

I might dig out the CAR and Fast Lane ones as well later

What'll She Do Mister?

[B'stard Child]

damiwi said:

B'stard Child said:

damiwi said:

Out of interest has anyone tested the accuracy of the Speedo on a Lotus Carlton with a GPS, I'd estimate it would have at least 8% error after 100mph. Which is why you might see 177 mph on the clock but the car is actually only doing around 163 mph.

Last time I checked it it was 2mph out at 100 mph

After that I don't know as I'm more interested in the road ahead

Only 2mph at 100mph that's really impressive.

I'm assuming the speedo runs off a cable, does the needle stay dead steady or wander a little.

It's pulse driven - not cable and the needle doesn't flicker

damiwi said:

I used to have a magazine years ago that featured the Lotus Cortina, Sunbeam Lotus and the Carlton but I can't find it, will have to keep searching.

Been done by two magazines

Car and Car conversions March 1991 & Performance Car March 1993

Edited by B'stard Child on Sunday 10th February 10:21

[B'stard Child]

Utopia said:

Could someone tell me if the Lotus Carlton is still the fastest production saloon in the world? It was given this title, being that the car was a "standard" saloon, capable of 177mph (ie: not modified in any way once it left the dealership).

Was unsure if this record still stood today, or over thrown by another saloon.

I think the Bentley took the crown

[B'stard Child]

veyron253 said:

This was a real groundbreaker in the eighties.
It was nearly impossible to get insured in one.
I think most have now been either written off or stolen and butchered for parts.

Over One hundred cars are owned by "Autobahnstormers" club members - Mostly Lotus Carltons but a few Lotus Omegas from Europe and beyond

287 RHD Carltons Produced rest of the 950 were LHD Omegas

I think it would surprise you just how many remain