RE: PH Heroes: TVR Cerbera

[central]

Top article Phil.

Had mine 2 years now, it still scares me sh1tless.

[dxb335d]

Hi there,

I have never been a major fan of TVR's. I like the Sagaris tho, looks very aggressive.

How much performance do they really have tho? I have never actually seen one being thrashed?!

Im a young chap and as i have grown up and seen, cossies, m3's being hammered and this made me want to get one. Never happened with TVR's. Im sure they do handle well and perform well just never seen it with my own eyes.

I hope a few TVR onwers will be at meets, id love to be taken out in one, who knows i might suddenly be enlightened and end up getting one

What is the reliability of these cars like?


Thanks

Carlos

[Mags]

FUBAR said:

Mags said:

Robscim said:

Andy_sx said:

Robscim said:

Andy_sx said:

One of the few cars that i seriously want that may be accessible in the next few years. all the other minor things like OH, house, food etc may have to go by the way side, but ho hum!

gorgeous looking cars and sound sublime! never had a chance to even sit in one, let alone be a passenger, but hopefuly one day

Andy,

Just find a local cerb and ask - they'll certainly take you for a spin. If you're down gatwick way, give me a shout - I'd be more than happy to take you for a spin (so long as you don't try to climb out of the door when I give it the big beans - it's happened before)

Great article by the way. They're cars with passion.

Cheers

Rob

Rob,

I'm not a million miles from Gatwick at all (45 mins) so I may well have to take you up on that offer. And no, i wont try escaping while you give it some, although a gentle build up would be hugely appreciated (not the best passenger) but I'm sure that can be overcome.

Cheers

Andy,

No problem - just let me know when is convenient (and preferably dry!!).

Don't worry, everything can be overcome in a cerb!!

Cheers

Rob

Oh bloody hell, this has got the juices flowing again. I'm most likely to be unloading my present car in the next couple of months and I've been struggling with what to get next. I nearly bought a Cerbie a couple of years ago but money was tighter and I had to put the sensible hat on and stop. I still dribble at Cerbies in the classifieds and 2 weeks ago I was just leaving a shop with the wife and a beautiful darkish green Cerbie gave it the beans in Crawley, we both just smiled at each other and the missus asked why I don't just buy one instead of always going on about how desperate I am for one but $hit scared about the running costs and the breakages!
The article in PPC last month didn't help much either.
I'm in Gatwick (well Horley) and I'd love to have the chance for a 'hot lap' so to speak if you really don't mind. I think it would convince me I need a Cerbie before they get too rare and parts get sparce.

Mags

Im not far away Mags, so we could run out in tandem and you can experience Cerbs from both inside and following...if that doesnt make your mind up nothing will

Cheers, that would be really cool :P If you guys set something up please let me know

Mags

[900T-R]

dxb335d said:

Hi there,

I have never been a major fan of TVR's. I like the Sagaris tho, looks very aggressive.

How much performance do they really have tho? I have never actually seen one being thrashed?!

Im a young chap and as i have grown up and seen, cossies, m3's being hammered and this made me want to get one. Never happened with TVR's. Im sure they do handle well and perform well just never seen it with my own eyes.

Drive one - it's about so much more than outright pace. Even driving one sedately gives you such a rich blend of sensations that very few modern(ish) cars can ever hope to muster. It's a totally absorbing experience, most of all because eveything relies on you, the driver.

[dern]

Mags said:

The article in PPC last month didn't help much either.

Yeah, got me thinking too. The only bit that made me baulk a bit was the suggestion that the engine could do with a refresh at 70k miles.

[kojak]

Nice one. Thats why I bought one.

[Forthright MC]

an excellent article! the Cerbera is easily one of TVR's all time greats indeed and the one in particular i fully intend to own at some point in the future myself...

Edited by Forthright MC on Thursday 7th February 15:19

[Mars]

New owner came round with the cheque tonight. I've got one week to gaze upon it in the garage and then it's gone from my life.

Still, I'm building some decent car history and I'd DEFINITELY consider another in the future.

[Negative Creep]

Oh yes. One day in the future I WILL have one, no ifs or buts. Yes I am aware I will spend half my life with the bonnet up and parts will get harder to find. But frankly, who cares?

[Mars]

Negative Creep said:

Oh yes. One day in the future I WILL have one, no ifs or buts. Yes I am aware I will spend half my life with the bonnet up and parts will get harder to find. But frankly, who cares?

It just doesn't have to be like this. Buy cheap and expect trouble. Buy carefully and it can be completely trouble free.

[PascalBuyens]

900T-R said:

Get both - you know it makes sense

Shhhhhh !!!!

[Negative Creep]

Mars said:

Negative Creep said:

Oh yes. One day in the future I WILL have one, no ifs or buts. Yes I am aware I will spend half my life with the bonnet up and parts will get harder to find. But frankly, who cares?

It just doesn't have to be like this. Buy cheap and expect trouble. Buy carefully and it can be completely trouble free.

I was under the impression they all broke down still doesn't bother me, will add to the fun

[Mars]

Negative Creep said:

Mars said:

Negative Creep said:

Oh yes. One day in the future I WILL have one, no ifs or buts. Yes I am aware I will spend half my life with the bonnet up and parts will get harder to find. But frankly, who cares?

It just doesn't have to be like this. Buy cheap and expect trouble. Buy carefully and it can be completely trouble free.

I was under the impression they all broke down still doesn't bother me, will add to the fun

Mine didn't.

[Negative Creep]

Mars said:

Negative Creep said:

Mars said:

Negative Creep said:

Oh yes. One day in the future I WILL have one, no ifs or buts. Yes I am aware I will spend half my life with the bonnet up and parts will get harder to find. But frankly, who cares?

It just doesn't have to be like this. Buy cheap and expect trouble. Buy carefully and it can be completely trouble free.

I was under the impression they all broke down still doesn't bother me, will add to the fun

Mine didn't.

Having said that I had an Alfa that never left me stranded and a Nissan that's gone wrong more times than I remember. I'm sure a lot of the tales are exaggerated although I did know someone with a Chimera who wnet through 4 starter motors in a month

[bosscerbera]

dxb335d said:

How much performance do they really have tho? I have never actually seen one being thrashed?!

They have plenty of performance, genuine sub-10 second 0-100; a good one will run into the 11s for a quarter mile.

Here's one being driven:

Spa Francorchamps Car had shot front dampers (died at the 'Ring the day before) - fair enough they were over 40K miles old.... and shot front discs (also rather aged at the time )

Nurburgring With Arebrec's hair as G-Force meter

Silverstone / The Sequel My favourite game of cat'n'mouse

[cyberface]

Should I try one?

I've only owned one TVR, a Griff 500 which was ace. It had its limitations, and had more character than real point-to-point speed - don't get me wrong, it was a fast car, but not 'mental' or any one of the adjectives used to describe cars that are brain-scramblingly fast.

I have a problem with the speed six so won't go there, and I'm not trolling, so no offence to Cerb S6 owners. The Cerb had the AJP V8 and as far as I'm concerned, that it the engine it should have (even if the six-cylinder car was meant to be 'better' in most respects). And I like V8s, though the flat-plane crank isn't my favourite V8 sound... I'm sure I could forgive it for the bike-like lack of rotational inertia!

Long-term owners - how do they age? That's the main problem for me with TVRs. The engine can be rebuilt, down to the last fastener if you have to - and there's always fun to be had if the engine is a bit tired as it's an excuse for an upgrade But annoyances like interiors that just rot after a few years, leaks that make the car feel and look tatty and 'old', and poor bodywork that simply degrades with age and looks crap, would put me off. Not to mention old-school TVR chassis corrosion.

Do the Cerbs do this? I'd particularly not want a car (now their age is starting to get on) that is likely to need a body-off chassis refurb, with that much performance and my penchant for oversteer (and the fact I'm no God of a driver) means that I'd rather have a perfectly solid chassis. Were the Cerbs the old powder-coated chassis like the Griffs and Chimaeras that would rot the outriggers at this sort of age?

I hate leaks, and I really couldn't forgive a solid car for leaking regularly. Soft top or convertibles like the Griffs and Chims have an excuse (and to be honest, my Griff never leaked, and it was left outside all year round) - but people mention that Cerberas can leak - is this common? Or is this a 'silly-design' thing like the Ford Racing Puma where opening the boot when wet would cover you with water (due to the seal design) but there was no real water ingress into the car. Composite body cars that leak, especially cheaply built low-volume stuff, are electrical niggles waiting to happen. And I get so little time to enjoy a drive that I'd get very annoyed with a car that constantly had some niggle or another. Especially electrical faults that can be a pain to diagnose.

Sounds like I'm being negative about TVRs - I'm not, since I had a Griff that never leaked, let me down only once due to a faultily fitted standard fuse (forced in, legs bent... nothing to do with TVR or their design), and was great fun and practical too. But it did feel like it was ageing, and even though it was great with me (other than the 7-cylinder cam), I wouldn't buy it back now because it'd be 12 years old and I simply think it'd feel rough and knackered now. A friend of mine had an old S2, he bought it cheaply and being an engineering student, did a bit of work on it himself. The car went fine, but it looked 40 years old inside and 'fit and finish' was appalling.

Did TVR get the Cerb 'just right' and, with care and attention, could one still have a decent level of fit and finish without being in the garage getting preventative maintenance done every month (i.e. every 4-8 drives for me at the moment ) ? I'm not worried about the engine and drivetrain, since they're easy to fix... it's more a question of bodywork / electrics / interior quality and longevity. Are they too old and troublesome now???

[Parrot of Doom]

The Chimaera I owned was the most beautiful enjoyable car I have ever had.

It was also the most expensive and the most worrying, but I forgive it all of that for the unbridled pleasure it offered me every time I took it out with the top down.

I miss it, badly. I will have another.

I just wish they'd done a softtop Cerb with 2 seats.

[Mars]

cyberface said:

Should I try one?

Drive one maybe. It surprised me the first time I drove it. Not the usual sort of feedback I expect from a car. It was there alright, but it took me months to access it.

cyberface said:

I've only owned one TVR, a Griff 500 which was ace. It had its limitations, and had more character than real point-to-point speed - don't get me wrong, it was a fast car, but not 'mental' or any one of the adjectives used to describe cars that are brain-scramblingly fast.

A properly mapped 4.5 Cerb is brain-scramblingly fast.

cyberface said:

I have a problem with the speed six so won't go there, and I'm not trolling, so no offence to Cerb S6 owners. The Cerb had the AJP V8 and as far as I'm concerned, that it the engine it should have (even if the six-cylinder car was meant to be 'better' in most respects). And I like V8s, though the flat-plane crank isn't my favourite V8 sound... I'm sure I could forgive it for the bike-like lack of rotational inertia!

Yes the 4.5 V8 is the engine the Cerb should always have had. And ONLY had. Why settle for less whan you can have the best?

The sound is much more purposeful than a traditional V8. More "motorsport". After a while you'll start to view "normal" V8s as lumbering truck engines. The AJP revs like an electric motor. I have never driven anything like it. I'm actually amazed it didn't get more development and find its way into more and more cars. Yes, I know emissions were worrisome, but some development could have attended to this.

cyberface said:

Long-term owners - how do they age? That's the main problem for me with TVRs. The engine can be rebuilt, down to the last fastener if you have to - and there's always fun to be had if the engine is a bit tired as it's an excuse for an upgrade But annoyances like interiors that just rot after a few years, leaks that make the car feel and look tatty and 'old', and poor bodywork that simply degrades with age and looks crap, would put me off. Not to mention old-school TVR chassis corrosion.

Chassis do rot and ALL Cerbs will now need some attention. Mine was rusty but seemed to be sound. Nearly a year after I bought it, the MoT man also thought it was sound but advised I treat it while it was still worthwhile. I have 2 pots of POR-15 that have gone with the car in the sale.

The driver's seats scuff on the outer edge. A problem associated with the low entry and small door-opening. The rest of the interior is superb. If I had space for working on the car and a bit of a restoration budget, I'd replace the clocks with a modern digital screen-type and simplify the controls a little... or maybe "solidify" them. I never got used to the indicator stalk. I prefer a clicky-type found on all other cars.

cyberface said:

Do the Cerbs do this? I'd particularly not want a car (now their age is starting to get on) that is likely to need a body-off chassis refurb, with that much performance and my penchant for oversteer (and the fact I'm no God of a driver) means that I'd rather have a perfectly solid chassis. Were the Cerbs the old powder-coated chassis like the Griffs and Chimaeras that would rot the outriggers at this sort of age?

Yes they rot but not all are beyond simple care. Get a dry-use one and you'll find metal under the surface that still "chings" but understand that even if the chassis is crap but the rest of the car has merit, a body-off resto isn't massively expensive. Factor it into the purchase price and you end-up with something you can rely on, and something that you've had a hand in. You'll learn about the car while you watch the process (definitely get someone else to do it).

cyberface said:

I hate leaks, and I really couldn't forgive a solid car for leaking regularly. Soft top or convertibles like the Griffs and Chims have an excuse (and to be honest, my Griff never leaked, and it was left outside all year round) - but people mention that Cerberas can leak - is this common?

Door seals can fail. Sometimes the door alignment leads to such a gap that'll never seal unless the door is re-hung. Sometimes the door itself is just poorly moulded. You have to check these things out when you buy.

cyberface said:

Or is this a 'silly-design' thing like the Ford Racing Puma where opening the boot when wet would cover you with water (due to the seal design) but there was no real water ingress into the car. Composite body cars that leak, especially cheaply built low-volume stuff, are electrical niggles waiting to happen. And I get so little time to enjoy a drive that I'd get very annoyed with a car that constantly had some niggle or another. Especially electrical faults that can be a pain to diagnose.

Get one with an Emerald. You can diagnose engine and engine-electricals easily. Learn where the cables from engine to cockpit to boot route (through the sills) and where the control boxes are (on top of the fuel tank). The boxes are all simple inside. Any electronics engineer ought to be able to knock one up for you relatively easily.

Get the BIG FUSE moved to somewhere more accessible during the body-off chassis refurb.

The dash electronics are easy to get to. The various dash and under-dash panels come off easily.

cyberface said:

Sounds like I'm being negative about TVRs - I'm not, since I had a Griff that never leaked, let me down only once due to a faultily fitted standard fuse (forced in, legs bent... nothing to do with TVR or their design), and was great fun and practical too. But it did feel like it was ageing, and even though it was great with me (other than the 7-cylinder cam), I wouldn't buy it back now because it'd be 12 years old and I simply think it'd feel rough and knackered now. A friend of mine had an old S2, he bought it cheaply and being an engineering student, did a bit of work on it himself. The car went fine, but it looked 40 years old inside and 'fit and finish' was appalling.

Well a Cerb is no modern German car but it still makes people who appreciate quality gasp with wonder. It's still a spaceship inside. It has style but maybe not the quality found in a Merc or Beemer, but the interior is easy to remove, so can be made to fit tightly if you learn where the various fasteners are.

cyberface said:

Did TVR get the Cerb 'just right' and, with care and attention, could one still have a decent level of fit and finish without being in the garage getting preventative maintenance done every month (i.e. every 4-8 drives for me at the moment ) ? I'm not worried about the engine and drivetrain, since they're easy to fix... it's more a question of bodywork / electrics / interior quality and longevity. Are they too old and troublesome now???

Yes, they can be fine in all departments. Remember, they left the factory with the 4 wheels pointing in 4 different directions, and parts only hanging on to the car by wishful thinking but a decade of loving enthusiast ownership has uncovered all those weak points and attended to them. Get one that is known to the PH Cerb enthusiasts and you can read about it's more recent history too.

I once said I'd write a FAQ for the newcomers to Cerbs, based on the investigations I'd done prior to buying mine, and the first few months of ownership. I never got round to it, but I think the last line of the previous paragraph says it all.

Edited by Mars on Friday 8th February 00:22

[bosscerbera]

cyberface said:

Should I try one?

Yes.

But be realistic about what you want to spend. Getting all your boxes ticked at basement eBay prices ain't going to happen, you're looking for a top dollar car. Cerberas were made up to three years ago. if you're in the £20K-£30K bracket, you will likely find exactly what you want in a late Cerbera. Alternatively, stick with that budget but spend it differently - find the best earlier car you can and get a specialist to make it what you want.

My 4.5 is ten years old (I've had it from new) and has done 52K miles. It has scuffs on the side of the driver's seat (so does my old Merc) and the driver's footwell carpet is threadbare. It wouldn't cost much to sort that out if I was bothered but since I can't see the affected areas when I'm in the car, I'm not. Its front end is heavily road-rashed but it has NEVER been in a body shop in its life. It has been religiously maintained, the chassis is mint. There's a slight leak in the driver's footwell but the car is garaged so I've not got around to fixing it (it can be fixed though). Fit'n'finish is fine, everything works and it goes like the clappers.

[cyberface]

Thanks for the last two comments - very helpful!

Boss - one thing - you say the Cerb was produced up until 3 years ago... weren't they all Speed Six engined cars by that stage? When did they stop producing the V8 - because if I was to get a Cerb it'd have to be a V8...