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RobM77
23,017 posts
103 months
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Firstly, those options are just that - options. Secondly, we shouldn't get too hung up about counting kilograms. My S2 111S has full sound deadening, air con (I bought secondhand so didn't spec this useless feature!), carpets, comfy seats etc. It weighs 806kg, which is only about 75k heavier than the S1. I'd happily pay that price to experience it everyday in comfort. What use is a great driver's car that you leave in the garage all the time? Or drive round hood up because it takes minutes rather than seconds to get the hood up and down? Thirdly, the S2 is genuinely useable on a day to day basis. The S1 was really a weekend car, so Caterhams etc damaged its case severely. When Lotus made the S1 I just had a Caterham for weekends... The S2, however, is a genuinely useable everyday car and I'd far rather own a car I can drive every day than one I just drive occasionally. If one of my cars had to go right now it'd be my Caterham, as quite simply, although it's the best to drive, it's the one I drive the least. I'm not knocking the S1 - it's a great car. However, the S2 is a hero because it's a true lightweight driver's car that you can drive everyday, which is unique I think? If it's cold and raining outside and I've had a long day at work, I get to drive home in the best road car I've ever driven. I still love it that much three years into ownership after driving it every day! That's rather wonderful 
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Jderh
6,151 posts
76 months
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I really REALLY want one of these now more than ever. Wonderful cars.
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Scottie - NW
470 posts
102 months
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Out of interest, how does the VX220 fit into these discussions between the differences between S1 and S2, has anybody owned a VX and a S1/S2 who can comment?
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LivinLaVidaLotus
1,624 posts
70 months
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Agree with RobM here, the man talks sense. Also, lets not forget that Lotus aren't exactly given a choice in some of the extra weight due to safety regs etc. in various countries. At the end of the day, all credit to the S1, it started the saviour of Lotus, but without the S2 and its increased volumes due to broader appeal, we'd all be sat here saying, "Geee, the Elise (S1, but we'd not know it as an S1) was good, shame Lotus went under".
(Although I suppose, we owe credit to the VX really, seen as it funded the S2 production line)
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kambites
32,864 posts
90 months
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The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).
Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance.
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stevie111s
122 posts
104 months
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I think everyone has a valid point that is based on their own personal experiences. For me, I came from low-cost 'sports' motoring (remember the Ginetta G15s ... I had two of them) so for me, the S1 represents motoring perfection, I take the NVH along with the 'feel' and am simply glad there is a heater to keep my toes warm.
But then I'm probably not in the 'mainstream'. I have a late S1 Sport 160s which is probably the pinacle of S1 production-line cars. I've also owned an S1 111s and an S1 Exige and admit that I enjoy the Sport 160 the most as it is quite understated, I found the Exige a little too OTT.
All IMHO of course.
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RobM77
23,017 posts
103 months
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stevie111s said: I think everyone has a valid point that is based on their own personal experiences. For me, I came from low-cost 'sports' motoring (remember the Ginetta G15s ... I had two of them) so for me, the S1 represents motoring perfection, I take the NVH along with the 'feel' and am simply glad there is a heater to keep my toes warm.
But then I'm probably not in the 'mainstream'. I have a late S1 Sport 160s which is probably the pinacle of S1 production-line cars. I've also owned an S1 111s and an S1 Exige and admit that I enjoy the Sport 160 the most as it is quite understated, I found the Exige a little too OTT.
All IMHO of course. My point was referring to the fact that the feel in the S2, so far as I can tell from driving both, is no less than the S1. If anything the narrower front tyres give more feel through the steering. Maybe that's just my perception - it may be that the greater comfort of the S2 allows me to concentrate more on what feel there is.
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Gooby
9,190 posts
103 months
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kambites said: The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).
Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance. What he means to say is the non vauxhall badged cars (Lotus) are for driving (does what it says on the tin), the vauxhall is heavy and lazy cos of the turbo.
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kambites
32,864 posts
90 months
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Gooby said: kambites said: The VX220 weighs about the same as a modern S2 (900kg ish). It's set up to be softer than the S2 (except maybe the VXR?).
Comfort levels are similar to an early S2. Performance wise, the N/A VX220 is similar to a 120bhp S2 and the turbo is similar to a 111R although in both cases the Elise needs working harder to get at the performance. What he means to say is the non vauxhall badged cars (Lotus) are for driving (does what it says on the tin), the vauxhall is heavy and lazy cos of the turbo.  that's another way of putting it. 
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jonathannealeuk
23 posts
100 months
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Sorry to differ but I used my S1 as a daily driver for over three years. I did have to put up with the leaking roof and getting in and out was a pain but the drive to work more than made up for it.
Having said that, my next one will be an S2 - it isn't just the car that puts on weight over time...
Jonathan
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I WISH
678 posts
69 months
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"The second car was the first Lotus to be created on a computer, with a design brief to produce a shape that was both modern and timeless." NO NO NO NO NO ......... THE S2 looks like it was created by a computer and it will look incredibly dated in about ten years time. I have grown to like it though (even with all those 'Max Power' black grilles .. ugh!). The S1 on the other hand was created with love and care by real people and really IS genuinely timeless. It will still look just as pure and gorgeous on 50 years time. I have an early ally disc S1 and I've driven a few S2s. The S1 is a much purer driving experience and arguably more fun. Colin Chapman would certainly have approved. 
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Bada Bing!
755 posts
96 months
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hbaumhardt said: "The S2 Elise's tenacious front end grip is helped by the downforce created by the car’s aerodynamics." LOL at "tenacious" and "downforce" ... unless the test car had 195 tyres, plynths machined for camber and a tigga! splitter  Then you can enjoy S1 oversteer. Have you driven an S2 in the wet? Tenacious is exactly how I'd describe the front end grip.
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Insight
581 posts
67 months
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R.P.M said: Only a 9 out of 10?
Must be a typo.
RPM what the hell is ever going to get 10/10???
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RobM77
23,017 posts
103 months
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Bada Bing! said: hbaumhardt said: "The S2 Elise's tenacious front end grip is helped by the downforce created by the car’s aerodynamics." LOL at "tenacious" and "downforce" ... unless the test car had 195 tyres, plynths machined for camber and a tigga! splitter Then you can enjoy S1 oversteer. Have you driven an S2 in the wet? Tenacious is exactly how I'd describe the front end grip.  I was at this track day in 2006 at Bedford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvYT8v5pagE That's my Lotus at the start of the video. The reason it's parked is that I've just finished a half hour session in a monsoon and because it's dried off my promised Radical passenger ride is about to occur as soon as this chap has checked the track's dry! My S2 111S was beautifully balanced in such conditions. Having raced for 7 years now, I'm not shy to push a car, and there was absolutely no problem with understeer or oversteer predominating. Amazing handling. I've also tracked it in the dry and that was fine too The Elise has very little weight over the front, so it needs thinner tyres at the front to create the same pressure to drive water away in the wet. In the dry, these tyres need to be softer to give you more grip. The S2 had a bespoke tyre designed for it to give both these properties. Lotus didn't have the budget to do this with the S1, and as such it doesn't have as well resolved handling between wet and dry.
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chickensoup
323 posts
124 months
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Bit harsh not mentioning the VX220 and the role of Vauxhall in the "improvements" made from S1 to S2 Elise. The skinny front tyres, lower sill etc were VX modifications taken by Lotus. Shame the looks and badge of the VX did not meet the mark, as the engine was at least Lotus designed
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kambites
32,864 posts
90 months
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chickensoup said: Bit harsh not mentioning the VX220 and the role of Vauxhall in the "improvements" made from S1 to S2 Elise. The skinny front tyres, lower sill etc were VX modifications taken by Lotus. Shame the looks and badge of the VX did not meet the mark, as the engine was at least Lotus designed I don't think the Vauxhall looks bad... I know plenty of people who like the VX's styling more than either generation of Elise. It was solely the badge that let the VX down - Elise buyers are just as much badge snobs as anyone else (and yes, I'm an Elise owner). I dithered very long and hard between a VX220t and an Elise S2 111S - my decision finally came down to running costs and my slight preference for the Elise's looks, the Elise being significantly cheaper over all (despite the heavier insurance). OK the VX isn't quite as sharp as the Elise because of the extra weight but it's not far behind and it'll still out-point anything else.
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FlossUK
1 posts
63 months
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kambites said: To my mind the S1 is too hardcore for a daily driver and too soft for a weekend toy - if I wanted a weekend toy/track car I'd look at Sevens and Atoms, not Lotuses.
The S2 is a good compromise between usability as a daily drive and fun at the weekends. My A@s£ I use my S1 as a daily driver
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Rob2005
410 posts
73 months
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S2 is far better looking, aggressive but beautifull at the same time.
S1 looks dopey lol... And you can keep any S1 or S2 with that K series engine... 111R and nothing less im afraid..
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JamesG
128 posts
134 months
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I owned an S1 Elise for a year or so. I intended it as a second car, but it was so much fun I drove it everyday.
When I had to downsize to a single car, I bought an S2 Elise. I went from a 160bhp S1 to a S2 111S, so they had similar power, but I found the old Elise quite a bit more fun to drive.
I have absolutely no regrets though. The S2 is still only 800kg and still an absolute hoot where ever I go. If it wasn't for the S2, I'd be driving something dull like a Boxster or S2000.
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MJK 24
3,646 posts
105 months
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It is possible to have a lightweight S2 you know! I've got one. No aircon No cupholders No remote central locking No carpets No extra sound deadening No heardtop Just a bog standard car. I'm pretty sure that you can buy a new Elise S or R from Lotus in a very similar spec to my Race Tech but the dealer will likely bulls  t you into thinking that your residuals will plummet when all he wants to do is make yet more money from all the extras he wants you to spec.
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