Is this a little unfair?

[Davi]

Blue Meanie said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

I agree, but the cyclist wore no helmet, and went through a red light. His dismissal of the road regulations played a huge part in his own death. The burden of guilt is heavily placed on the driver, which in my opinion is wrong in this case. As someone said, would the accident have happened had she not been texting? How fast did he come out of the side street, etc?

I think it is fair to assume that if she was texting the likelyhood of the accident happening was greatly increased. The only concern is if she actually was texting at the time of the accident or not - that comment above does seem a bit vague.

[dern]

morebeanz said:

So what are folks thoughts if she had not been texting, but same result?

If police were able to ascertain that she braked very hard in avoidance then she wouldn't have been charged even if the cyclist had died. From what I understand they can analyse the accident scene to this degree.

[Bing o]

roboxm3 said:

She was wrong to be texting yes and certainly deserves some punishment but 4 years and a 5 year ban seems very harsh for a accident that essentially seems to have been someone else's fault.

If she'd been looking at the road, she would have had a good chance of seeing the cyclist and reacting to him. So her negligence was a contributory factor in this case.

However, I don't think that death by dangerous driving is a fair charge as the cyclist did not protect himself, and died as a result of igmoring the highway code (as she had as well) and failing to wear protection on the precise part of his body that the injury killed him.

Dangerous Driving would be a fairer charge IMHO

[VladD]

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

[Kieran XJR]

Marki said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

You are right but,,, if as you drove over a junction passing a green light some tt came out of a side road through a red light and into your car and killed himself in the process how would you feel if you were prosecuted

We're talking about a bicycle here, it's not a very fast moving vehicle. When driving you have to assume that some plonker's going to pull out in front of you, you always have to be ready for that. You can't just step on the gas as soon as the lights turn green and just think, "it's my right of way". I'm sure if the women involved had of actually looked, she would have seen the cyclist.

[will_]

The green light means you can proceed when it's safe to do so. The fact that a cyclist was running through the junction on a red means that it was not safe to do so. Had she not been texting then the accident may have been avoidable.

I don't think it's fair to make a point that he wasn't wearing a helmet. He doesn't have to, and though it might have contributed to his injuries he was not negligent in choosing not to wear a helmet, in the same way that peds don't have to wear sumo suits or body armour in case they get hit by a car.

Were this a civil claim then there would be significant contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist. In the criminal sphere this is not particularly relevant. Had she not been driving dangerously, then the penalty would have been much less severe even though the consequences were the same.

However I think 4 years is quite a stretch. As a London bike commuter I am aware of how many cyclists run red lights, and some of them will come a cropper one day. If the driver is not at fault then they will not be prosecuted when the inevitable accident occurs.

[Bing o]

VladD said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

That's not what he said...

WAKE UP FFS!!!!

[dern]

Kieran XJR said:

Marki said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

You are right but,,, if as you drove over a junction passing a green light some tt came out of a side road through a red light and into your car and killed himself in the process how would you feel if you were prosecuted

We're talking about a bicycle here, it's not a very fast moving vehicle. When driving you have to assume that some plonker's going to pull out in front of you, you always have to be ready for that. You can't just step on the gas as soon as the lights turn green and just think, "it's my right of way". I'm sure if the women involved had of actually looked, she would have seen the cyclist.

Absolutely, people make bad judgement calls all the time on the roads. While they obviously shouldn't every needs to be ready to cope with them when they happen.

[Davi]

Kieran XJR said:

Marki said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

You are right but,,, if as you drove over a junction passing a green light some tt came out of a side road through a red light and into your car and killed himself in the process how would you feel if you were prosecuted

We're talking about a bicycle here, it's not a very fast moving vehicle. When driving you have to assume that some plonker's going to pull out in front of you, you always have to be ready for that. You can't just step on the gas as soon as the lights turn green and just think, "it's my right of way". I'm sure if the women involved had of actually looked, she would have seen the cyclist.

You've got to be kidding! I can think of at least a dozen traffic lights in Southampton that are fairly blind - any cyclist can easily achieve 20mph. Add to that fact that if the lights had been green for some time she could be approaching them legally at up to 30mph. VERY easy for a coming together even if the driver does have full concentration.

Anyone know which traffic lights it happened at?

[will_]

Davi said:

You've got to be kidding! I can think of at least a dozen traffic lights in Southampton that are fairly blind - any cyclist can easily achieve 20mph. Add to that fact that if the lights had been green for some time she could be approaching them legally at up to 30mph.

She was doing 45mph in a 30.

[VladD]

Kieran XJR said:

We're talking about a bicycle here, it's not a very fast moving vehicle.

Not very fast. Based on what? A man in Cornwall recently went to jail after he cycled into a man and killed him. He was charged with "Furious Cycling".

I'm very anti using your mobile phone while driving, but she's unfortunately been in the wrong place at the wrong time politically. They're trying to clamp down on mobile phone use in cars and she's being used to ram the point home. In this case the cyclist was at the majority of fault and she's paying the price for his mistake.

[Davi]

will_ said:

Davi said:

You've got to be kidding! I can think of at least a dozen traffic lights in Southampton that are fairly blind - any cyclist can easily achieve 20mph. Add to that fact that if the lights had been green for some time she could be approaching them legally at up to 30mph.

She was doing 45mph in a 30.

Yeah I was merely commenting on the "bicycles are slow it should be easy to avoid" comment.

[Thudd]

They were both in the wrong. I do think her sentence was harsh, but his was worse.

I've had two drivers run into the back of me recently when using the phone

Luckily at low speed but it annoyed the hell out of me.

[VladD]

Bing o said:

VladD said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

That's not what he said...

WAKE UP FFS!!!!

That IS what he said, hence the "Quote" part. Idiot.

[Kieran XJR]

VladD said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

If someone walked out off the pavement into the path of your car for instance, do you think it's okay to run them down and say, "the rules of the road were on my side, my right of way mate"? The rules are arbitrary, human life is more important. I think if we're careful and have good observation we can prevent all but the most unforeseeable accidents.

[Civpilot]

Davi said:

Kieran XJR said:

Marki said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

You are right but,,, if as you drove over a junction passing a green light some tt came out of a side road through a red light and into your car and killed himself in the process how would you feel if you were prosecuted

We're talking about a bicycle here, it's not a very fast moving vehicle. When driving you have to assume that some plonker's going to pull out in front of you, you always have to be ready for that. You can't just step on the gas as soon as the lights turn green and just think, "it's my right of way". I'm sure if the women involved had of actually looked, she would have seen the cyclist.

You've got to be kidding! I can think of at least a dozen traffic lights in Southampton that are fairly blind - any cyclist can easily achieve 20mph. Add to that fact that if the lights had been green for some time she could be approaching them legally at up to 30mph. VERY easy for a coming together even if the driver does have full concentration.

+1

Alot of generalisations here in defence of the cyclist being some sort of angel. Ok, so he is now, but the point is we don't know the complete ploice report, she could have just as easily been happily driving along at the posted when the cyclist just ignored his already red light.

Working in west London I have seen a frightening amount of car/pushbike incidents in the past 4 years and most of them have been caused by a pushbike just ignoring a red light and riding out full speed. Thankfully none of these incidents have been fatal. Funnily enough in all of them it has been the cyclist who was been the abusive party in the aftermath screaming at the car driver for thier mistake?

Boggles the mind

[bigandclever]

Well, she was doing 45mph in a 30mph limit. The guy was already two thirds of the way across the junction, so it's not like he leapt out in front of her. She was texting her ex as she drove. She didn't react *at all* as she drove through him. Plus she kept denying her guilt through the trial.

The fact that he wasn't wearing a helmet... so what? It's not illegal, and in that kind of impact all a bike helmet will do is (kkind of) keep the bits in one place. There's plenty of evidence to suggest in some impacts wearing a helmet is actually detrimental (snagging, rotational injury). In any case, in a high impact collision the helmet compresses then breaks so quickly that the forces can't be absorbed / dissipated fast enough - it effectively makes no difference.

[VladD]

Kieran XJR said:

VladD said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

If someone walked out off the pavement into the path of your car for instance, do you think it's okay to run them down and say, "the rules of the road were on my side, my right of way mate"? The rules are arbitrary, human life is more important. I think if we're careful and have good observation we can prevent all but the most unforeseeable accidents.

You've missed my point. If I'm driving along, perfectly legally, and someone steps off the pavement into my path in such a way that I have no time to react, and that person dies, then I will have been deemed by the majority of people to have killed that person, when in fact it would be more appropriate to say that they killed themselves.

[Bing o]

VladD said:

Bing o said:

VladD said:

Kieran XJR said:

I think if you kill someone whilst driving you have to face the consequences. There's been too many cases where drivers have just been given a slap on the wrist IMO.

This is what really pisses me off. If you kill someone!! So if you drive a car you are automatically the person at fault if someone dies? If someone jumps off the roof of your house and dies, should you be responsible for that too? WAKE UP FFS!!!!

That's not what he said...

WAKE UP FFS!!!!

That IS what he said, hence the "Quote" part. Idiot.

It's not what he meant - and what does it have to do with a man falling off your route.

The sooner more people realise that driving a ton of machinery requires constant and complete concentration the better.

[The T Boy]

This is getting ridiculous.

No one will ever know what would have happened if she hadn't been texting - she may have seen the cyclist and stopped, she may have slowed and hit him, she may have killed him.

What we do know is that if she had been watching the road and focusing 100% on the task in hand instead of her phone she would have had a better chance of avoiding the cyclist. Whether she would have avoided him is unknown. However, had this happened and she had used her best endeavours to avoid the accident she would not be going to prison.

The cyclist did run a red light and if he wasn't dead would be carrying the majority of the blame for the accident. The driver is carrying the blame for her actions, not the accident.