RE: Audi R8 V12 TDI
Discussion
I've just returned from the 'ring with a group of mates and two of them confirmed they have deposits down. One is told by Audi he was the second UK order, giving his deposit at 11am on the morning after the night before it was launched at Detroit. He's been quoted c. 18 months for delivery.
gary11 said:
I think the appeal will be the different drive,ie short shifting at 2500rpm,mountainous torque curve,I watched mc nish being interviewed whilst testing diesel R10,he said it was like learning to drive again totally different to the petrol one.
But the Merc SL65 AMG engine achieves more torque, more rpm, and similar power, with a similar sized forced induction engine.That would be able to short shift at 2500rpm AND be quicker doing it, AND have more revs to go at too.
Yes I get the 'diesel' thing, I just don't think it's important as a point of focus for this car at all.
Give me an RS6 engined stock looking R8 any day of the week.
Dave
Whatever you make of it, this car strikes me as being far more a car built by engineers 'because they can', rather than by accountants 'because it will make lots of money'. I personally think this is a good thing (tm) and applaud Audi for trying something different. Fuel economy is probably the last thing on any supercar buyer's mind, but if it means cars like the R8 have more of a future (given the way legislation seems to be going) then I'm all for it.
Re: the Merc 65 engine - yes, same outputs, but a petrol engine is less thermodynamically efficient than a diesel, which means more waste heat to get rid of. Given the problems Audi had with R8s bursting into flames, cooling would appear to be an issue, so the diesel could have an advantage in terms of requiring less cooling kit to be packaged within the car. That said, aren't they also supposed to be putting the RS6 engine into the R8, which would be many kinds of awesome.
Re: the Merc 65 engine - yes, same outputs, but a petrol engine is less thermodynamically efficient than a diesel, which means more waste heat to get rid of. Given the problems Audi had with R8s bursting into flames, cooling would appear to be an issue, so the diesel could have an advantage in terms of requiring less cooling kit to be packaged within the car. That said, aren't they also supposed to be putting the RS6 engine into the R8, which would be many kinds of awesome.
NiallOswald said:
a petrol engine is less thermodynamically efficient than a diesel, which means more waste heat to get rid of. Given the problems Audi had with R8s bursting into flames, cooling would appear to be an issue, so the diesel could have an advantage in terms of requiring less cooling kit to be packaged within the car. That said, aren't they also supposed to be putting the RS6 engine into the R8, which would be many kinds of awesome.
VAG have experience dealing with heat in the Veyron. Just keep adding radiators 
John
There's any number of forced induction/na sports cars out there, running on petrol.
We know exactly what they can do and what their weaknesses are.
The point is that this fantastic 6.0 derv will have certain things those cars haven't got and long may we have these sort of choices when it comes to cars.
We know exactly what they can do and what their weaknesses are.
The point is that this fantastic 6.0 derv will have certain things those cars haven't got and long may we have these sort of choices when it comes to cars.
Edited by Beemer-5 on Wednesday 9th April 14:46
flattotheboards said:
I prefer the looks to the standard R8, as much as I respect the effort gone into making this car, I dont think diesel supercars are the way forward.
What IS 'the way forward' though?In an age when every single country, just about, is spending an ever-increasing fortune (and profiting by even more) making it ever harder to go at silly speeds, outright power and speed has long since been a minor consideration as a road car.
Cars which look great, are more than fast enough, yet are useable every day if need be is the real way forward and a 'super-derv' may just be that car.
Sadly its just a day late and a dollar short.
The price I pay for diesel now, which will only worsen as demand increases means that the difference between the two is getting marginal.
I like my diesel and it has loads of grunt and economy.
However i can't see the point of any diesel that returns less than 35mpg.
If the diesel retains the front grilles and the petrol one isn't allowed them then they may sell a few..
I would love one myself..
However Like the Jag XJ220...
I feel that by the time this car arrives the market will have gone..
I feel a chill wind and it doesn't stretch to this new car which is a damm shame.
The price I pay for diesel now, which will only worsen as demand increases means that the difference between the two is getting marginal.
I like my diesel and it has loads of grunt and economy.
However i can't see the point of any diesel that returns less than 35mpg.
If the diesel retains the front grilles and the petrol one isn't allowed them then they may sell a few..
I would love one myself..
However Like the Jag XJ220...
I feel that by the time this car arrives the market will have gone..
I feel a chill wind and it doesn't stretch to this new car which is a damm shame.
NiallOswald said:
Whatever you make of it, this car strikes me as being far more a car built by engineers 'because they can', rather than by accountants 'because it will make lots of money'. I personally think this is a good thing (tm) and applaud Audi for trying something different. Fuel economy is probably the last thing on any supercar buyer's mind, but if it means cars like the R8 have more of a future (given the way legislation seems to be going) then I'm all for it.
Re: the Merc 65 engine - yes, same outputs, but a petrol engine is less thermodynamically efficient than a diesel, which means more waste heat to get rid of. Given the problems Audi had with R8s bursting into flames, cooling would appear to be an issue, so the diesel could have an advantage in terms of requiring less cooling kit to be packaged within the car. That said, aren't they also supposed to be putting the RS6 engine into the R8, which would be many kinds of awesome.
Absolutely disagree, this is a car thought up by marketing with just enough budget to squeeze 3 underfunded engineers onto it for 3 months. I always hate being put in that sort of position as an engineer, you know you are making a duffer against a deadline of some trade show and should anyone buy it (and they do) then you end up having to go back to square one throwing away the last 3 months and work out how it should have been designed in the first place had you got the budget up front.Re: the Merc 65 engine - yes, same outputs, but a petrol engine is less thermodynamically efficient than a diesel, which means more waste heat to get rid of. Given the problems Audi had with R8s bursting into flames, cooling would appear to be an issue, so the diesel could have an advantage in terms of requiring less cooling kit to be packaged within the car. That said, aren't they also supposed to be putting the RS6 engine into the R8, which would be many kinds of awesome.
If it was built by engineers then it wouldn't snap in half in low gear or high speed.
I wouldn't hold my breath if you actually expect to buy one...
Mr Whippy said:
gary11 said:
I think the appeal will be the different drive,ie short shifting at 2500rpm,mountainous torque curve,I watched mc nish being interviewed whilst testing diesel R10,he said it was like learning to drive again totally different to the petrol one.
But the Merc SL65 AMG engine achieves more torque, more rpm, and similar power, with a similar sized forced induction engine.That would be able to short shift at 2500rpm AND be quicker doing it, AND have more revs to go at too.
Yes I get the 'diesel' thing, I just don't think it's important as a point of focus for this car at all.
Give me an RS6 engined stock looking R8 any day of the week.
Dave
te Ive heard and is more of a straight line weapon,and cannot get its huge amount of power down,agree with rest of your points though R8 not blindingly quick managed to do one in my old 96tt the other day he wasnt happy!as i said before watch a lap of diesel R10 at le mans boring it aint!
by the way audi R8 (V8) sounds great at full chat,imagine a v10 with sports exhaust dont know how that would compare with the diesel one? a fairer comparison I feel than the sl
all the best gary.
VladD said:
Personally I'm looking forward to 99% of cars on the road being diesel, it'll just make the petrol cars even more special. It nice enough now when a Ferrari or Lamborghini flies past with *that* exhaust note. Just think what it will sound like when every other car on the road is making either no noise or a mild clatter clatter.
Little kids will be shouting at their dads, "What's that!!!!" and the Dad will be saying with a tear in his eye: "That's a petrol engine son. I used to have one of those."
Never going to happen. When you produce diesel, you get gasoline as a by product. Therefore you will never get only diesel cars on the road otherwise there will just be a sLittle kids will be shouting at their dads, "What's that!!!!" and the Dad will be saying with a tear in his eye: "That's a petrol engine son. I used to have one of those."
t load of unused gasoline getting wasted.Variety is good, some people will not see the point in this car and others will think its great. It's good that it provokes a bit of discussion and causes some controversy, Audi aren't scared to make a statement and do something a little different.
I'm very tempted to buy one of these. Maybe if business goes well next year I will. The only thing holding me back is the fact it's an Audi, and Audi UK did everything they possibly could to weadle their way out of doing the right thing when I bought an A8 that had an intermittent fault that the dealer, Audi UK and the factory couldn't fathom out how to fix.
One of the biggest bonuses of the diesel engine, besides the humungous torque, is the range. Most test reports, including the OP's, involve driving the car too short a distance to encounter this, but it makes quite a difference in everyday use. Most supercars, especially mid-engined ones, have feeble tanks. Drive them gently and you're refuelling every 200 miles. Drive it hard, or even cruise at a consistent transcontinental speed, and this can halve.
My guess is that the V12 TDi will be geared phenomenally high (remember the press car had an A4 'box and the torque was scaled back in the black box to preserve the clutch) and this will have a dramatic impact on the real-world consumption, making it a much more practical proposition than most petrol supercars.
One of the biggest bonuses of the diesel engine, besides the humungous torque, is the range. Most test reports, including the OP's, involve driving the car too short a distance to encounter this, but it makes quite a difference in everyday use. Most supercars, especially mid-engined ones, have feeble tanks. Drive them gently and you're refuelling every 200 miles. Drive it hard, or even cruise at a consistent transcontinental speed, and this can halve.
My guess is that the V12 TDi will be geared phenomenally high (remember the press car had an A4 'box and the torque was scaled back in the black box to preserve the clutch) and this will have a dramatic impact on the real-world consumption, making it a much more practical proposition than most petrol supercars.
JohnLatham said:
threespires said:
Although very well road tested by many mags, I think many real world punters with £90K to spend will see it as a fancy TT, which in turn is seen as just a fancy Golf. They want people to see that they've spent £90k on a car and I'm sure their chequebook will be opened at other dealerships than Audi.
Have you seen an R8 in the flesh? You wouldn't mistake it for a TT.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I've seen some [ a pal has one ] and I still stand by what I said. A publicity stunt and many more to come. It's just a halo car to change peoples perception of Audi as being no more than a flash VW. Just watch those residuals in 2 years time.
I'll admit a very good car, but a car doesn't have to be good to sell well [Bentley Continental GT aka Millionaires Mondeo]
Audi will struggle for sales in 18 months after the initial early adopters have taken delivery.
threespires said:
JohnLatham said:
threespires said:
Although very well road tested by many mags, I think many real world punters with £90K to spend will see it as a fancy TT, which in turn is seen as just a fancy Golf. They want people to see that they've spent £90k on a car and I'm sure their chequebook will be opened at other dealerships than Audi.
Have you seen an R8 in the flesh? You wouldn't mistake it for a TT.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, I've seen some [ a pal has one ] and I still stand by what I said. A publicity stunt and many more to come. It's just a halo car to change peoples perception of Audi as being no more than a flash VW. Just watch those residuals in 2 years time.
I'll admit a very good car, but a car doesn't have to be good to sell well [Bentley Continental GT aka Millionaires Mondeo]
Audi will struggle for sales in 18 months after the initial early adopters have taken delivery.
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