E36 M3 EVO upgrades

[CRACKIE]

I've got the "I've had the car for 2 years and want a change" itch but can't find an alternative within my budget ( £10k + EVO ) so have decided to treat the EVO instead. The car is now at 72K miles and had a new VANOS under warranty at 60K miles (Murketts Huntingdon). All appears well - currently running on some new Conti SportContacts.

I'd like to improve the engine's torque/power and remove the flat spots + improve the poor intitial steering feel and turn in.

I would value any feedback and opinions on the following proposals.

1. Simota Induction Kit.
2. Supersprint rear box.
3. Remap at EVO-S. ( considered Bexley Motor Works and Thorney Motorsport ) cos they all seem to have great reputations.
4. Eibach Pro Springs.
5. Powerflex polyeurethane bushes.
6. H&R anti roll bars.
7. BMW Motorsport lower cross brace ( from E36 convert )
8. Goodridge braided brake lines.
9. BMW braided clutch hose.
10. OMP front strut brace.
11. Suspension geometry setup - not sure by who though.

I appreciate that I'm not likely to see 321PS / 316.6 BHP on a standard 72K mile car but what do you think are realistic before and after power figures. I remember Total BMW did a rolling road day on ZMCoupes a while ago and the average for the S50 B32 engines was 313.5bhp with a best of 327.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 18th July 13:16

[Vixpy1]

On a really good S50 you will see 310ish, most are around 290 to 300.

Sounds like a good list of mods.

[E36GUY]

According to Thorney replacing ARBs on the Evo isn't neccessary so you might not need to do that bit and save a few quids.

Nice list of mods though. Upgrade the brake bads and fluids if you're doing the brake lines.

[Neil.D]

Pah! See this. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YF3jPXwf7o

I agree with your upgrades numbers, 2,5, 7, 8, 9, 10 + 11.

With the others I think you may be disappointed.

[ASBO]

CRACKIE said:

I've got the "I've had the car for 2 years and want a change" itch but can't find an alternatives within my limited budget so have decided to treat the EVO instead. The car is now at 72K miles and had a new VANOS under warranty at 60K miles (Murketts Huntingdon). All appears well - currently running on some new Conti SportContacts.

I'd like to improve the engine's torque/power and remove the flat spots + improve the poor intitial steering feel and turn in.

I would value any feedback and opinions on the following proposals.

1. Simota Induction Kit.
2. Supersprint rear box.
3. Remap at EVO-S. ( considered Bexley Motor Works and Thorney Motorsport ) cos they all seem to have great reputations.
4. Eibach Pro Springs.
5. Powerflex polyeurethane bushes.
6. H&R anti roll bars.
7. BMW Motorsport lower cross brace ( from E36 convert )
8. Goodridge braided brake lines.
9. BMW braided clutch hose.
10. OMP front strut brace.
11. Suspension geometry setup - not sure by who though.

I appreciate that I'm not likely to see 321PS / 316.6 BHP on a standard 72K mile car but what do you think are realistic before and after power figures. I remember Total BMW did a rolling road day on ZMCoupes a while ago and the average for the S50 B32 engines was 313.5bhp with a best of 327.

Thanks in advance.

CRACKIE Sir,

My Evo is in the process of having similar modifications carried out.

For a start, I would forget about engine modifications until you've turned your attention to the suspension and brakes. Your list sounds good although if you want to really change the way the car drives, the biggest single modification you can do is fit a set of decent coilovers to it. Uprated srpings will lower the car but little else. With a set of Bilstein PSS9 or Eibach pro-street coilovers on the other hand, you will literaly transform it, without sacrificing too much comfort.

Combine this with some uprated ARB's and polly bushes and you'll have a genuinely capable ground covering device that still retains most of the civility of the standard car. You'll also need to replace the rear top-mounts with uprated ones as these often fail.

As far as the brakes are concerned, the standard setup can be very effective with the addition of braided lines as you listed, some decent pads (I recommend Pagid RS42 or RS29) with dot 5.1 fluid and some fresh BMW discs. The latter part is important as only the genuine items are floating, whilst all the aftermarket discs for the M3 are solid (with the exception of the £££££ stuff from AP et al), which completely defeats the purpose of 'uprating' them. Avoid all this grooved and drilled nonsense also.

Once the brakes and suspension have been taken care of, I'd recomend you focus your attention on replacing the transmisison mounts as this will tighten up the car no end. At the same time, make sure everything else is in tip-top shape.

After all that, I'd suggest a cat back exhaust to improve the noise and err, not a lot else really. The S50 is in such a high state of tune that unless you spend ~£4k on it (as I'm about to) then you wont see any gains.

Be very careful with the induction kits available out there too. Most will kill the MAF - either by firing grit at it or coating it with road gunk and or filter oil. Many folk have waxed lyrical about the DaveF kit available from http://www.e36coupe.com but any gains from it will be minimal at best. I only bought it for the noise as I'm sure is the case with most.

As for re-maps, I've heard Chip Wizards (whom I'm planning to use) are good, as are chippedUK and Bexley Motorworks. I had a superchips flash performed on mine and I wish I hadn't bothered.

Finally, you wont be able to order the braided clutch hose from BMW as they have stopped making it. At present I'm notaware of anyone who supplies similar hoses.

HTH

[tjw110]

What kind of driving are you planning on doing, if it's just, "enthusiastic" road driving then most mods are not going to make enough of a difference unless you are (as we all claim to be) a seriously proficient driver. The 10 to 15 bhp and dynamic gains in suspension and braking (the evo already has E39 M5 front brakes) will be far out weighed by our ability.

The M3 evo is already a quick car, and is capable of out performing most drivers (I'm not suggesting your not already a top driver) it's just been, "softend" to make it easier to drive on the roads.

I think all the changes your looking at will make a difference to you in your car, good luck let us know how you get on.

I've currently got a 99 M3 with a scorpion exhaust, induction kit, remap (Emaps) strut brace, power flex bushes, ibach prokit, it goes alright, sounds alright, and stops just fine..!!!!

[CRACKIE]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice

[zmrjason]

Crackie,

I have these mods and all carried out by Evo-S (evolveyourcar.com):
Schrick 284 Cams,
Underdrive Pulleys,
MAC Motoren Carbon Airbox,
Bigger Bosch Injectors,
ARP bottom end,
UUC Competition Lightweight Flywheel + Clutch,
Supersprint De-cat & Full system,
Evo-S Full Dyno setup & Remap + Uni “Q” chip,
18" BBS LM's,
H&R Coilovers,
H&R Anti Roll Bars
H&R Drop Links,
Weichers Carbon Strut Brace,
6 Pot BBK Conversion + Custom rear discs & upgraded pads, Braided hoses,
Braided Lines,
3.64 LSD Diff,
Strengthened diff mounts,
Storm Motorwerks V2,
Digital Racelogic TC.

All of these have made some or quite a considerable difference BUT would definately go for sorting brakes and handling before fiddling with the engine.
I do believe the standard package can be improved significantly with carefull modding.....so you should get a new lease of life if you choose what suits the budget and need!!
Hope this is helpful and Good luck
Jason

[CRACKIE]

There appears to be a very common link to all the replies ( thanks again ) that I should be improving brakes prior to engine work. Will do.

I'm not expecting huge gains from the engine work just some smoothing out of the VANOS step. I guess the reason for the induction kit and exhaust is more for noise rather than HP but the sound M3s make is part of the appeal

I should have added that my target is fast road rather than trackday machine ( for the time being anyway until children are older ) I had a 944 Turbo SE a few years back and it was very flattering to drive; I felt I could anticipate what it was going to behave like when pushing hard but with the M3 I find it less faithfull and harder to predict the response to inputs. Hope that makes sense.

If BMW have stopped producing the braided clutch hose does anyone have any experience of the "Hose Solutions" one available on E-bay ?

Thorney Motorsport seem to favour KW coilovers. Anyone got any experience of these ?.

Cheers for now.

Edited by CRACKIE on Friday 30th May 15:22

[joesnow]

Hi,

When I bought my EVO last year it drove well enough, but after getting used to it, I found the ride and handling wallowy,uninspiring, and actually potentailly dangerous as the car moved side to side through corners over crest. After coming from a relatively sharp Integra TR, I was looking at swopping the car. After a bit of thought, seeing as it was on it's original bushes and suspension, I renewed the lot with Poly' bushes and Bilstein PSS9 adjustable coilovers, and popped on some Eiback anti-roll bars. The car is devastating now, handles progressively and will probably outrun my brother's Impreza, which before the upgrades, just dissapeared in a cloud of turbocharged glory.

The joy is that it looks hard as nails hunkered down on the coilovers (height adjustable spring is independant of the damper spring), drives really well, and I can stick my hand under the arch and adjust the damper setting (1-9). I can retain the standard ride comfort (well near enough), or stiffen things up for maximum attack.

The K&W V3's are three way adjustable (PSS9's are 2way) - rebound, shock and height, but they are a bit more expensive.

I bought and fitted all of the above for around £1800 thanks to my new found Inde' friend.

ETA: I had new disks and Yellow stuffs fitted on the front, and they are great so far, no squeels or fade so far. Yet to try them on track though.

Edited by joesnow on Thursday 10th April 17:18

Edited by joesnow on Thursday 10th April 17:19

[CRACKIE]

Thanks Joe ~ your description of wallowing and side to side movement over crests gave me a bit of deja vu. Now I need a couple of weeks off the juice to save up for coilovers.

I have no experience here whatsoever ; I'm keen to improve / optimise damping for road use but dont want too run our of travel so don't really want to alter height too much. Say 25mm at front and 15mm rear ; most of the coilover specs I've seen so far seem to be track biased with ride height reduced by 30mm minimum. I guess a full adjustable coilover setup will cover all options.

Will let you know how things progress.

Cheers

[gwatson]

CRACKIE said:

Thanks Joe ~ your description of wallowing and side to side movement over crests gave me a bit of deja vu. Now I need a couple of weeks off the juice to save up for coilovers.

I have no experience here whatsoever ; I'm keen to improve / optimise damping for road use but dont want too run our of travel so don't really want to alter height too much. Say 25mm at front and 15mm rear ; most of the coilover specs I've seen so far seem to be track biased with ride height reduced by 30mm minimum. I guess a full adjustable coilover setup will cover all options.

Will let you know how things progress.

Cheers

I am with you on this one.. I want to improve the suspension but still need to maintain a good ride height as I use it for mountain biking and need to take it into Forestry car parks etc. 15-20mm drop would be perfect.

Edited by gwatson on Thursday 10th April 19:07

[dan101smith]

I'm running Intrax coilovers on mine, and have no issue getting over even the biggest speed bumps that London has to offer, so I wouldn't rule them out.

[CRACKIE]

Thanks Dan, would you advocate beefing up the top shock mounts ( rear particularly ). It appears to be a weakness E36s but not everyone says it is a must.

I guess kerbs etc on track days apply much higher loads and stresses than road work.

Cheers

[joesnow]

Ah, forgot. I fitted some CSL rear top mounts when I had the work done. Just a precaution really, but at £45 or so, worth doing IMO. I also had to have some 3mm spacers put between the front wheel and hub so the tyre didn't rub on the strut. This is, I believe, not a problem with M3 3.0 wheels, but no big deal anyway.

Here are some pics for you. The rear needs lowering really, but the weather addeed to busy weekends means I haven't been able to play. The front is perfect though, and will clear speedbumps no probs. As it is it's very balanced, and some say that a well dropped rear upsets the balance, so I'll be going with the 'hide the top of the tyre' look.

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

[dan101smith]

CRACKIE said:

Thanks Dan, would you advocate beefing up the top shock mounts ( rear particularly ). It appears to be a weakness E36s but not everyone says it is a must.

I guess kerbs etc on track days apply much higher loads and stresses than road work.

Cheers

Yeah, it's a known weak point on the E36s, and the cost of sorting it is fairly minimal. The E46 convertible mounts and Z3 reinforcement plates are the most popular method of beefing them up, but there are some Rogue Engineering ones available if you really want to shed some cash.

Anything you do to beef up the suspension will put more stress on these parts, so worth doing a preventative job on these.

[E36GUY]

joesnow said:

Hi,

.

ETA: I had new disks and Yellow stuffs fitted on the front, and they are great so far, no squeels or fade so far. Yet to try them on track though.

I too have fitted yellowstuffs and they were pretty good at the Ring at Easter and on the GP circuit too. Unfortunately I didn't have time to get the car in for hoses and fluids so they were not as good as I think they will be. Getting the braided hoses and fluid upgrade done on Monday then I've got castle coombe on Saturday next week so hoping for improved stopping.

[PeterGreen]

CRACKIE said:

If BMW have stopped producing the braided clutch hose does anyone have any experience of the "Hose Solutions" one available on E-bay ?

I acquired one of these only to find it was missing the bit where the pressure switch sits, so I had to send it back. I ended up with the more expensive correct one from here

[tjw110]

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

I've got a rough idle, started last week, one minute it was OK then all lumpy again, now it’s continuous. I took it to my local Indy today and he did a quick plug in diagnostic check, 2 faults 1 VANOS exhaust 1 exhaust timing, the timing cleared up as it was caused by the VANOS fault.

I had a chat with him and he explained the solenoid thinks it's open, i.e. +2600rpm and will run like a bag of sh*t until the engine reached 2600rpm then it will run just fine.

He suggested I take off all the electrical connections as this sometimes causes the faults, done this, still no good. I've got it booked in for a vanos diagnostic check; 30 minutes should identify possible cause.

Anyone else had this? Any ideas? Other than lumpy idle it runs and pulls very well.

Cars a 99 M3 Evo convertible FSH, doesn't use any oil

[teabagger]

tjw110 said:

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

I've got a rough idle, started last week, one minute it was OK then all lumpy again, now it’s continuous.

Anyone else had this? Any ideas? Other than lumpy idle it runs and pulls very well.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG92&mospid=47433&btnr=13_0442&hg=13&fg=15

part 5 - if this is missing, it can cause bad idling. its visable under the intake plenum